I have done some experiments with the science win:



https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/27-general/thread/9465-n-turn-challenge-fastest-science-win



It seems that the key to a science win is ... strong trade improvements and a trade oriented corp hero. This is not very research-y, and the sophons are not actually the best at it. I would like to experiment with some ideas about how to make the sophons best at the science win, in ways that are moddable today.



a. Obviously, boosting the science bonuses of the existing science buildings can help, especially the sophon-specific one. Any ideas on specifics?



b. Reducing the science income from trade is another obvious thing. Currently whatever trade income you get from dust, you get 2x that for science. In the fast science win games, there are individual systems with 6000+ research per turn from trade. Has anybody found a place in the xml where the scale between trade and science income is set? I would probably make it 0.5 instead of 2.0.



c. Once (b) is done, the science win will be harder; (a) will improve it. But I would also like to think about expanding one of the heroes (not admin; but maybe corporate or adventurer) to do more for science. I would love to have an adventurer hero who would go out onto the first scout ship and get XP plus science for each system explored. That isn't moddable today, AFAIK, but any thoughts on hero things for a science win that would be moddable?

I'd lean towards a 1:1 ratio, myself. The rest of the game design seems to be based on rough equivalency between research and dust, and it feels funny to me that this is the one exception. I think the imbalance causes ripples;



Dust and Research traits have equal value in faction creation (except in the anomalies to a certain extent)

You plan to do a lot of trade...

Are those traits still equal?



Honestly, I think shifting the dynamic the other way would cause equal distortion.



I think the larger dynamic pushes up against a wall; the trade/diplomacy system itself - which seems like an unfinished mess. As it is, somehow "Diplomats" net you 25/50% more trade income from someone to whom you are smuggling goods (blockade breaker). In addition to the cash they manage to bring home alien research data. At the same time, those "Diplomats" have no effect on your relationships. I think that trait should be split and renamed "Traveling Salesmen" and "Industrial Spies". Diplomats should do .... well ... diplomacy.



One way to look at the larger issue is comparing potential income from trade and production; and risk/reward. Trade in many games (and I'd go on to say real life) has great potential, but has a larger element of risk. Blockade Breakers, the one-sided nature of trade, and the fact that trade income is static (real markets rise and fall) eliminates this.

For a kind of science-y suggestion how about a type of science leeching device, one that gives you a small % of all research in a game?



Science ships as a empire upgrade giving each CP +10 science each might also help promote a more aggressive Sophon player.



Trade has always been a great way for civilization to learn for each-other, we could possible include some kind of trait or improvement that can be used for a science faction to boost the science trade income by a large amount?



Exploration could also factor into it, with galactic observatory's giving a player a boost to research based on the % of the total galaxy explored.

Say, what do we have here?

Modding/Simulation/Registry.xml

[code]









2

[/code]

I like one character mods.

I'd say have the entire beginning of the Sophon's science tree buffed with race specific technologies that give twice as much science. This wouldn't be too shocking seeing as Sower's get their own technology tree due to their tolerant trait.

@ harel55, I agree that sophon buildings will need more science. But I'm a little hesitant to fill up the tech tree with a lot of things. The sower techs are kind of an exception; in fact they don't grant any new ability. A non-sower getting that tech gets the same result: they can colonize the planet without any penalty. It so happens that the sower affinity means that the sower could colonize earlier, with a penalty. But the tech itself has the same effect.



For sophons, currently they get a stronger Advanced Optics Lab, and a unique building Redundant Infrastructures which gives +sci% on system when ecstatic, and +sci% on empire when fervent. Maybe we could give stronger versions of the two early general science buildings, public-private partnerships and magnetic shields. Although mag shields is already pretty powerful.



@ igncom1, those are interesting ideas. I am pretty sure none of them are moddable today. Have you found any xml hooks for these?

Davea please look at my saves in your thread, for Sophon wins in neither one did I have a high amount of trade untill the very end of teh game (last 10 turns or so) most of my science was from non trade strengthened by expansion.



As of yet no one has gotten a faster science win then me, in that thread, so I do not understand what your thinking about trade.

davea wrote:
Say, what do we have here? I like one character mods.

OK, I have changed the ratio from 2 to 0.5 and added it to the new version of the community bug fix mod:



/#/endless-space/forum/37-modding/thread/15801-released-community-bug-fix-balance-mod



Obviously at least one person disagrees with this, and it may need to be tweaked further. But, at least this is a starting point for testing. Please let me know what you think.