There are so many really cool 4X games in my gaming history it would just seem pointless to list them all. I'll contain myself to the one that I think would be my all time best so far, and this was Sword of the Stars. The one thing that I dislike there are battles, where Kerberos went into heavy micromanagement. Exactly the element that I'm counting on ES to remedy and make it an experience of a fleet admiral.

reynanuy wrote:
Really? Both of you? To me it was one of the the best, I mean 2 is my all time favorite; but that's more out of nostalgia that anything else. And IV did eventually became the best of them all, giving the amount of features it ended up having. But 3 for me was so much fun, we finally had borders for example and graphics were animated; plus much nicer than 2. Diplomatic options were expanded as well with new treaties and a much better AI that actually took advantage of them. It must be because you guys played them at release, by a rule of thumb any CIV game sucks at release; only much later, with a few expansions, they get to the "classics" category so to speak. Believe me that I speak from experience, I bought CiV on release day and to this day I regret it

Civ3 had a lot of great ideas and managed to use most of them to sabotage, rather than enhance, player enjoyment. Civ4 took many of those concepts and and implemented them in ways that were much more enjoyable.



What really killed Civ3 for me, though, was the diplomatic AI.

AI1: Why hello there, nice chap! How are you?

AI2: Oh, splendid, splendid! I've just developed gunpowder here. Say, you wouldn't want to trade it for the compass, would you?

AI1: Don't mind if I do! Say, how about we ally ourselves? That way, we could spare ourselves unnecessary bloodshed.

AI2: What a terrific notion! Why let's do that right away!

AI3: Can I join too?

AI1&AI2: Why of course! The more the merrier, you know!

Human: Say, wanna open up trade routes or something?

AI1&AI2&AI3: A human? CHAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGE!

Human: Sigh...

Thana wrote:
Civ3 had a lot of great ideas and managed to use most of them to sabotage, rather than enhance, player enjoyment. Civ4 took many of those concepts and and implemented them in ways that were much more enjoyable.



What really killed Civ3 for me, though, was the diplomatic AI.

AI1: Why hello there, nice chap! How are you?

AI2: Oh, splendid, splendid! I've just developed gunpowder here. Say, you wouldn't want to trade it for the compass, would you?

AI1: Don't mind if I do! Say, how about we ally ourselves? That way, we could spare ourselves unnecessary bloodshed.

AI2: What a terrific notion! Why let's do that right away!

AI3: Can I join too?

AI1&AI2: Why of course! The more the merrier, you know!

Human: Say, wanna open up trade routes or something?

AI1&AI2&AI3: A human? CHAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGE!

Human: Sigh...

It may sound like a bad idea, since the situation is without context; but I bet you had a pretty powerful civilization for the IA to ally against you. At least that what always happened to me, the moment I started to get ahead; the rest of the civs would try to keep me in place. This is merely an implementation of the classic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" line of thought and I think it's essential for the diplomacy of any 4x game to make sense; off course it also needs to be balanced so is not always you vs the world(or the galaxy in this case). One pivotal real world example of this is the Soviet Union in the Allies during WW2.

How about Fantasy General or Star Control 1&2? Neo Nectaris (Japan only) or Military Madness or Vasteel (1 only) TG16! These were the games that started me on the strategy genre when I was a lad. I still bust out my semi-functional Turbo Duo occasionally just to play these titles! Vasteel 1 was an innovator with player controlled battles (broken though they were). Star Control series polished this idea and put the big "X"plore spin on it. Ah, to be young again!

Fantasy General, as good as it is (and I loved the Fantasy General/elven Legacy remake), wasn't a real 4X. It was more of a wargame.

True- There are so few games out there that fit the niche 4X description perfectly. Sometimes its difficult to differentiate. I kind of end up lumping turn based and total war genre into the same category. With the exception of Heroes cookie cutter titles and RTS which I generally avoid. Somehow MOO2 escaped my radar. How do you get it to run on XP platform? I would love to get in on some. I can get my fantasy general to run, but there is no sound- is there an emulator available?

DOSBOX is a good emulator. And if you want to play MOO2 just go on http://www.gog.com/. No DRM, decent prices.

VieuxChat wrote:
DOSBOX is a good emulator. And if you want to play MOO2 just go on http://www.gog.com/. No DRM, decent prices.

And working online multiplayer

Hi all



For me absolutely Moo 2 / Starflight 2 / and X series

There are many games here for me, my top favorite games are bold:



- Master of Orion...the first 4x i played and still play...it's just a masterpiece imho.

- Imperium Galactica: first game on cd-rom i bought to replace MOO which i couldn't play anymore with windows 95. Loved the story...

- Star Trek: Birth of the Federation

- Imperium Galactica II

- Master of Orion II

- Reach for the Stars...helped me wait for Master of Orion 3 (R.I.P. Ian Trout)...it's still on my netbook...great for travels

- Master of Orion 3: i am one of those who loves this game and still play from time to time (R.I.P. Longspur)

- Galactic Civilization.

- Armada 2526 Supernova: imho, the closest thing to MOO since MOO.

- Distant Worlds with addons...



Other great games but ones i've played less: Sword of the stars with addons, SW: Rebellion, SW: Empire at war, Master of Orion II.

anguille wrote:


- Master of Orion 3: i am one of those who loves this game and still play from time to time (R.I.P. Longspur)

I tried so hard to love Moo3... I heard that the game is good modded. Did you use Mods?

Boygor wrote:
I tried so hard to love Moo3... I heard that the game is good modded. Did you use Mods?

Only the patches done by Bhruic...

Master of Orion 2 was my favorite from time to time.



But i don't know if SOTS2 or Endless Space will takes it places.

anguille wrote:
Only the patches done by Bhruic...

What did it do to alter he core gameplay? I'd have been inclined to try it again but I bought the game twice and sold it twice... Can't say I didn't try . It's dirt cheap now though....

reynanuy wrote:
It may sound like a bad idea, since the situation is without context; but I bet you had a pretty powerful civilization for the IA to ally against you. At least that what always happened to me, the moment I started to get ahead; the rest of the civs would try to keep me in place. This is merely an implementation of the classic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" line of thought and I think it's essential for the diplomacy of any 4x game to make sense; off course it also needs to be balanced so is not always you vs the world(or the galaxy in this case). One pivotal real world example of this is the Soviet Union in the Allies during WW2.

No, it pretty much always degenerated to me versus everyone or me versus most, with the rest just looking elsewhere. Didn't matter if I was ahead in the game, in the middle or falling behind, the AI players simply hated me regardless of what I did.

MOO2 for me - 3 seemed to dilute it too far.



Back back to an oldie - Reach for the Stars.

I've been playing 4x games for only a couple of years, so it's mainly SOTS, Homeworld 2, Star Ruler, and Total War, which I've been playing since I was 6

Master of Orion 2 all the way for me, and from some time Distant Worlds (I really like this one)

anguille wrote:
There are many games here for me, my top favorite games are bold:



- Master of Orion...the first 4x i played and still play...it's just a masterpiece imho.

- Imperium Galactica: first game on cd-rom i bought to replace MOO which i couldn't play anymore with windows 95. Loved the story...

- Star Trek: Birth of the Federation

- Imperium Galactica II

- Master of Orion II

- Reach for the Stars...helped me wait for Master of Orion 3 (R.I.P. Ian Trout)...it's still on my netbook...great for travels

- Master of Orion 3: i am one of those who loves this game and still play from time to time (R.I.P. Longspur)

- Galactic Civilization.

- Armada 2526 Supernova: imho, the closest thing to MOO since MOO.

- Distant Worlds with addons...



Other great games but ones i've played less: Sword of the stars with addons, SW: Rebellion, SW: Empire at war, Master of Orion II.

Hey anguille! Glad you made it over here!

flopsies wrote:
I've been playing 4x games for only a couple of years, so it's mainly SOTS, Homeworld 2, Star Ruler, and Total War, which I've been playing since I was 6

Total War is not 4x. Love the series, though (especially the older games)!

Masters of orion 2 moo2 got to be my fav there are otheres that i enjoyed too but my favorite them is space in games