First of all, we wanted to thank you for the game's reception. We are super happy to see you playing and enjoying the game. We have been quite busy the past weeks reading all your feedback on the different platforms (and fixing some elements that aren´t working as intended).
Some of you have expressed that the game should improve the rogue-lite aspect/replayability. We agree and from our perspective, the game should offer more variety between runs.
The team has already been working on improving these aspects of the game since release but would like to use this thread as a point of discussion with you, to share how you feel about that and how you think it should be improved.
Here are a couple of questions in the air so they can serve as inspiration, but do not hesitate to add anything you think is relevant:
What will make you play more runs?
Is there a specific area or element that you would like to be expanded/improved (weapons, variety of upgrades, unique modifiers, etc)?
What in the meta progression should be improved/added to motivate doing more runs?
To help the team understand your perspective, it would be nice if you could briefly tell us about your gaming habits your experiences with rogue-lites (and if you played DotE in the past).
As far as meta progression, I think more weapons, weapon upgrades, and more hero mod chips that really change the hero more than a +/- to a stat.
Some of these chips sort of exist already, off the top of my head I am thinking of Cartie's bug killer mod.
I think if there was a deeper hero mod system for us to really customize and build the hero in different ways for each run it would add to the replayability.
Also as someone who played DotE, I do miss an Endless mode where we can just try and see how far we can make it.
As far as modifiers to the game itself? Maybe some mini bosses that have a chance to randonly spawn on any floor or sector?
Hello! Big fan of Endless Dungeon and its prequel. The biggest motivator for me to hop on and do another run is to unlock character progression. If there were more playable characters, alternate abilities for existing characters, and bigger modifications to them in unlockable skins (such as hats, infected designs, etc.) I would be a lot more motivated to keep jumping into the game for runs. I also think secrets--easy or convoluted--are good for engagement. Ayairi and Esseb Tarosh from DotE are good examples of secrets that really motivated me to keep playing. I think weapons that are very unique (such as ones that curve around corridors or heal you for kills) also boost replayability, more than modifiers or upgrades will. Basically, anything that makes me change the way I have to play will get me to try it.
As for my gaming habits, I play games almost daily and most of those games are rogue-lites. I've probably played most popular titles and have encountered a lot more. I enjoy the sense of getting better as a player as my character improves. Excited to see what you guys come up with!
In terms of things that could be done to improve the replayability of the game.
-Well the first thing that comes to mind is a random route setup. One where the player doesn't get a choice with what district they go to. Makes it a mystery which boss they will face and what enemies they will largely encounter along the way.
-Endless mode I would add to the conversation as well. I think it would have to be added with the random route setup I was mentioning above. So you are facing different enemies randomly as you go.
-I also do think that having the same final boss to the game does become a bit repetitive. This one i know is a tough ask/suggestion. But maybe different forms of Eriaudy could be at the end instead of the same one. Ones that are resistant to different elements/weapon types and appearance of Eriaudy would change as a result (sort of like Eevee in pokemon).
-More characters to find and unlock along the way. Similar to Dote here. Might be something already on the planning floor. But having a larger character pool to draw on and maybe having heros that you can rescue and escort through the game to unlock would be something fun. Sort of a Escort the VIP situation. Which is also another suggestion for a game mode VIP escort. You get a party of 3 and 2 of the characters have weapons and the 3rd one doesn't and they must survive to the end along with the crystal bot to win. Further details could be flushed out. But that general idea.
I could keep rambling off different ideas. But ill leave it there.
Seconding both the random option: for districts, perhaps also for enemies? Kind of like the current beverage that makes the generators stronger but remove the option to choose which one: forcing us to adapt to what's happening in the run, with less predictability for what's coming next... And also: the "alternate builds" for heroes. Having the possibility to choose different chips both in saloon & during runs is good, but currently each hero really has one personal "build" and a few generic upgrades, and having more deliberate upgrade routes to pick and choose from there, would be just as good as having entirely new characters, imo.
I'd also like more quests myself, maybe shorter than the heroes' questlines, but involving a whole specific team or any hero but different specific conditions? Small self-contained "stories" anyway, that would make the run unique (or even just *repeatable* at will, closer then to the beverages system but involving lore rather than just action gameplay).
I don't know if it really counts, but I personally like the "random encounter" aspects of the band in the saloon, and the holopup (the only "secret" I've seen so far, maybe there's more I've yet to discover? :D ) that makes a fun surprise twist once in a while. Unexpected stuff in a run is always a plus for me, even if it's entirely cosmetic.
My biggest complaint is that in a game with heavy emphasis on defending with turrets, the turrets in Endless Dungeon have ZERO rogue-like elements to them whatsoever.
Instead of spending Cells on every gun in the game, 95% of which I will NEVER see on a given run, let me upgrade the capabilities of my turrets!! "Fire Rate", "Damage", "Range", "Price", all of it!
This ONE thing is, by far, the biggest reason I have no motivation to play Endless Dungeon.
Also, each character can only have three upgrades. Meaning once you've spent less than 15 cells on your favorite character, there's no reason to play the game anymore. This feels very boring and depletes 100% of your motivation to keep playing the game.
I play a lot of roguelikes/lites and some things ED is missing that usually carries the genre's replayability are fairly standard. In summary it comes down to content volume to provide variety with each run. Right now the content is shallow enough that each run feels very similar. Same weapons, same enemies, same walls even if they're configured differently
Some recommendations:
A broader set of more dynamic and interesting weapons found in each run, no new assets required
ED puts little emphasis on loot in a run. There isn't armour to be found, or potions, or scrolls. The weapon options in the game are a 15-item loot table, while only 3 of each element type, much of which can only be used by specific characters, so likely you wont have access to half of what you find. This makes all runs feel very similar, with the only changing challenge being the shape of each dungeon/floor.
We all know this isn't a Diablo-style game, but expanding on the weapon variety would go a long way. A 10% buff to the same weapon I've found three times isn't exciting to anyone. But a gun that lobs fire grenades that freeze the enemy? A gun that fires black holes and holds groups of enemies? An ice flamethrower? A gun that makes enemies your allies? There's opportunity to expand the current weapons table with more variety than what we have. I would give weapons above a certain quality odd behaviour perks. +10% whatever isn't exciting, but what if the weapon that typically doesn't have splash now does? Or a weapon that typically fires straight now fires in a cone? A lot of this is numbers/behaviour tweaking and don't require a slew of new assets to be made.
Same as above, but enemies
I don't need to labour on this, but enemies that come with different, randomized 'mutations' that are simply effects that challenge the players in new ways. These enemy perks can be few on the first floor, and gradually become more common the further into the run a player gets.
I've fought the same bug a thousand times, but if suddenly the bugs I encounter turn invisible like Blurs? That's spicy, that's different. And again, none of this requires new assets, just expansions of entity tables.
Notable events
A big things with some traditional roguelikes are events that occur, seemingly outside the norm of a typical run, that spice things up. ED attempts this with dust nodes, blackout rooms, the shopkeep, etc. But this could be expanded on.
The TL;DR version is just that game requires more variety in content. Achieving that doesn't require a host of new assets, as many roguelikes do just fine with adding a healthy dose of RNG dynamics to loot, enemies, events, etc.
ED doesn't really do any of this, it seems to play by a hard set of rules. Which make it easy to balance and tune, but it feels like you're just doing timetrials throuigh the same course over and over.
Please add more characters. All of the other characters in the saloon, from the singer to the lady in the wheelchair, should be considered.
Add more random events or even rare weapons that operate different from standard weapons to a run to have a run different from prior runs. A rare weapon would be something like the fire weapon that normally attacks in a close circle around you instead attacks in a larger circle at increased range or even sends out ranged bursts in a 360 digree pattern. These weapons would only last for the run. They would not carry over to previous runs to increase the diversity of runs.
I love the game, super fun. A major improvement to me would be more features to upgrade/unlock for weapons/saloon/characters. There hits a point when you have more scrap and currency than items to use them on. The chests for scrap at the start of each run are a great example of something to be expanded upon, maybe specific ones or multiples for purchase if you have the scrap.
Additionally I'm a huge lore guy, the current in-game stuff is fantastic and I'd be excited to get more of it. Destiny and the lore through grimoire cards or gaining it through raids/challenges was a great way to keep me invested.
I've been on a rogue-lite kick for a while. Currently playing Have a Nice Death, also a fan of Hades. Risk of Rain 2 is by far my favorite, again plenty of lore through challenges. Incorporating the random-esque stat and power cards could be a great addition. RoR2 and Vampire Survivors suffer from an issue with power scaling, after a certain point you're the almighty god of death and destruction and the games lose a bit of fun/replayability without something to challenge you.
Played DotE a bit. I enjoy good tower defense games and I felt like it put a nice unique touch with the FIDS system intermingled with party management.
So far I've played everything but the first Endless Space, big fan and thanks for the hours of entertainment. Can't wait to see what comes next.
I've loved the game so far and I'm so glad you guys are looking at the community for getting some more ideas for it!
Personally I would lean towards adjusting the things that can happen during individual runs through changing up enemies/bosses and adding in new ones. It could be by having multiple enemies of a certain "type" like having multiple Praetorian level enemies, with only one showing up in a run, or it could be done by having subtypes of enemies who have special abilities (this could work like minibosses or they could replace/be in conjunction with Elites). If this was done then while you would know the idea of what enemies you are going to find (Bots in this case), but it might be a red colored Razor with a short range flamethrower instead of missiles, or a purple colored Razor that summons trap effects like Red Dead Eye. Essentially shake ups that will change how an enemy will fight, or maybe even changes to how they work, but they will still be the same thing. The enemies in the game right now are pretty great, but their aren't too many of them and so you learn how to combat them quickly, spawning even just one "special elite" that works different every once and a while (maybe one each wave?) could add some variety in encounters.
New enemies would be great too, and they could serve as a different way to add differences in runs. Maybe there could be 7-8 total units in each faction, with only 5 being present in each run. By themselves this adds some variety in runs, but without a larger scale bestiary it might feel unnecessary. Maybe having something were you get an extra couple sentences about the creature or from a character talking about an enemy could act as another thing for players to strive to collect (The Hunter's Journal from Hollow Knight could be a great reference for what I'm talking about here, despite it being a wholly different genre the concept should work here well).
Others have already mentioned it, but some more characters to unlock or play as would be fantastic, especially if they offer new ways to play the game (such as a melee character, or one who uses abilities for most of their damage rather than guns). The characters in this game are all great, I love their voice acting and their personalities, but with all of them being in one of two major groups (1 or 2 handed gun) quite a few of them look like trade offs of each other (even though many of them play decently differently).
An endless mode that lets you pick between two zones at random could be a ton of fun, perhaps it could be structured normal zone, boss zone, repeat like it is currently still but with randomly chosen floors and bosses. This could be with a warning of what types of enemies to expect on a floor or it could be hidden and you would have to figure it out as you go along.
More things to spend scrap on other than chests would be one of my biggest wishes, as once you buy all the upgrades for the bar there isn't much to do other than buy the starting chest for each run. This could just be more cosmetic things, like a new room to the bar (perhaps as a way to lead into more characters), or it could be more concrete things, like new guns for future runs or improving the odds of certain guns appearing next run.
Thanks again for making such a great game and have a great day!
I think the game is really fun however as a solo player I think one easy fix to make the game a little better is to simply allow all the characters use their abilities by themselves. EX: Blaze doesn't set his traps if I am playing another character, and I'd rather have traps randomly all around then have him on my team and not place any traps at all. Also maybe a way to have the characters use their ults with a hot key instead of needing to switch between them, this way I can get heals or AoE whilst still on the character I enjoy more. (Maybe I'm missing something that already does this but these small problems are real turn-offs for me)
As for additions I think the legendary weapons should have unique intrinsic perks for just that run. EX: The campfire getting another outer ring of fire, or spawns random food drops on kill to heal any character that walks into it. These perks would only come with the weapons being legendary or a new even higher rarity to encourage unique runs. Also could add a new shop/vendor that allows you to change the unique perks out of a set pool for each or even all weapons, or have an option to choose what perk you would get for reach weapon before the run, if you got lucky enough for the legendary to drop, separately form the base perks.
I also think the lore and collectables should be more rewarding, either giving skins or some other unlockable items. Or add a new currency to unlock even more new skins.
The main thing that make me play more runs and return to roguelites I like is being able to be creative by making meaningful choices. And usually I think this comes from two factors:
-Surprising and multiple challenges. -Various tools and choices to adapt to those challenges. By “tools” I mean things that enable strategies.
The challenge I think is balancing this:
-If there aren’t surprising challenges, I can always play the same way every run, so I don’t need to make meaningful choices, and the runs will feel the same.
-If there are surprising challenges, but, they can all be dealt in the same way. I can always have an easy choice, and easy choices don’t feel meaningful. So the runs feel the same again.
-If there are surprising challenges, they can’t be dealt in the same way, but I don't have enough tools to adapt (or if I have to face all challenges at once) the game gets frustrating in the bad way, since my choices are always very bad (90% of turrets right now).
-If there are a lot of tools to adapt to different challenges, but not enough ways to filter those tools, I feel like I’m totally dependent on luck and picking whatever appears in front of me, so I am not even choosing. (I’m always opening every door on the floor)
-But if there are too many ways to filter and acquire those tools, I can just pick the easy choices again and again, and the runs feel boring. (example, let's say you could reroll the research for free until you get what you want)
I think the main problem with the game right now is that I don’t have to make any meaningful choice to beat it. The challenges are not surprising and multiple enough. I know exactly what I’ll face every run, and the little that I don’t know, I’m sure it’s not relevant enough for me to change my strat. Not that I really could change my strat, because choosing one tool - like weapons, research, turrets, the vendor, level ups, characters, my starting point and route and even my playstyle - over another is rarely a meaningful choice. Either because the tools are very similar in regard to the problems they can solve (that arent many in first place), or because one tool is clearly the best tool to deal with almost every possible problem (long range acid turret, I’m looking at you, bro).
I don't think that every choice has to be a hard choice, it also feels good getting lucky and receiving an easy choice, but, right now, every choice is either an easy choice or not a choice at all. There is no risk/reward in-run besides going for a bot upgrade on a very bad spot. Out of the run there are only chips to choose over another, and very few of them are gameplay changing.
Gaming habits: I play almost daily. Today I mostly play roguelites. I'm playing Ravenswatch, Boneraiser Minions and, well, Endless Dungeon, But I always replay Curse of the dead gods, Hades and Dote. I have a weakspot for isometric games, real time strategy and mobas too.
I do think its worth having a look at how curse of the dead gods deals with risky/reward overall; how Heroes of the storm (and ravenswatch) have fun mission talents you have to get early game to have a power spike mid-late game and how they build synergy between talents; How Hades deals with unlocking stuff and furnitures for your lobby/saloon and how those unlocks affects the runs. Also would take a look on Hades "heat" system, their boss modifiers and late game difficulty that doesnt rely exclusively on stats. I can post more about it along with some ideas I shared on the steam foruns already.
I always try to make a brief post, always fails xD
A daily and maybe weekly missions for scraps or something. I'm currently sitting on 50k scrap and there's nothing to really spend it on. Would love another vendor of some with different goods to buy.
Gun skins locked behind 3 more objectives For each character only obtainable by doing objectives with that character.
Ahoy there! I'm loving my time with the game and I've been playing often with and without friends which has been a blast getting to play a game like this with friends! As for my background I play games every day near enough as it's my main hobby so I've played my share of roguelike games Slay the Spire, Skul The Hero Slayer, Risk of Rain 2 and Hades are probably my favourites (I have not played DotE). Variety is my main criticism, chasing specific gameplay is what keeps me hooked on roguelikes. Once I feel as though I've seen all the gameplay I will be more likely to move on to another game.
Cell Upgrades need to be more impactful and thematic: Some of this is already well done with things like Cartie's "Exterminator" or "Robotics Expert" trait, the better they evoke the character's personality and vibes the more I will attach myself to the specific build. A flat bonus to a stat can be rather boring, I want the upgrades to be "felt" kind of how in a game such as Risk of Rain 2 or Skul your character can start with different abilities and this might change the kinds of items you will want to pick up during your run. As cells aren't quite as impactful as a whole new active ability they need to really help the hero lean into something they want to do with an effect that you can't get anywhere else really. I want to feel good about picking my hero's build before I go into the run, knowing that I now get to do something that only this hero can do in the way that I'm doing it.
Weapons: Up top I want to say I think the guns in this game all feel excellent, they already all feel unique and interesting to fire. spending a cell to get +10% damage isn't all that interesting but if the choice was between shoot two extra projectiles in a spread pattern or stack 10% attacks speed per kill up to 10x suddenly I'm excited to pick one and I'm making a meaningful choice that can spice up my future runs. On another note for a good roguelike there needs to be some weird or even OP items you're always on the lookout for, low drop rates endless rarity weapons but if you find it you'll be hyped. Slay the Spire and Risk of Rain 2 do this really well. When that rare card or item drops that can completely define your run it's the best feeling in a roguelike. Give them names of people who have been lost to the station like a six-shooter revolver which always fires all 6 shots rapidly, bares the name of one of Blaze's posse (one ain't four but it ain't bad!). It's a great way to go all out with adding interesting new weapons to the game with wild effects.
On X effects: Really simple this one but having more hero cells, devices, weapons and upgrades "proc" things upon doing certain actions. Anything from standing still, per hit, on kill, when taking damage, when building a turret, when opening a door etc etc etc. This just opens sooooo many points for synergy!
Meta progression: As I said before chasing gameplay keeps me playing a roguelike so I think adding more beverage challenges would be a great way to let us alter the run to feel fresh. Something I love are the special waves they're so fun and I would love a beverage that makes them happen all the time. In general though the more we can unlock things that change the future runs the better. Although this last point may be getting very very wishlist-y, new unlockable active and ultimate abilities for the heroes would really add some flavour. I can already see Bunker getting a charge that pushes everything out of the way as she dashes creating a path for everyone to get through a huge wave or Fassi chugging a concoction that makes him breath fire! Just things to spice it up and stop every run with a hero feeling similar.
Thank you for making this incredible game. You made something really really fun here and I'm excited to see where it goes. If you sat through all that thank you and please go treat yourself to a refreshing beverage!
Hello, I've played the game solo and in team and I love it so far. It's very beautiful, the feeling with a game controller is amazing (sound design, lights, impacts...).
So what would I like you to improve ?
In solo mode, a way to move around the heroes you don't play , maybe from the global map, would be useful.
A way to set waypoints for heroes and robot moves.
Maybe a way to set "behaviors" for them too like: "defend this spot, but defend crabby if threatened" or "use healing kit when HP fall below 20%", 'focus on spawns" or "defend crabby until it reaches destination", etc. commands like these that would allow the player to focus on something else, and build teamplay though playing solo.
Fix the music volume mix when beginning a new level: a song is played (which is great), but it seems to me all the other sounds volumes are set back.
In terms of replayability, here's a few things that come to mind right away:
Massively increase the roster and allow for a larger team size so TED has the same scale as DotE's roster/teams. Bonus points for adding discovery of team members over the course of a run.
Remove the elemental weakness system. Yes, that's probably a controversial statement, but the elemental system severely limits player choice. You could instead replace it with an elemental affix system like in many other roguelites, and I think that would encourage more exploration of different turret types and affix synergies. (If you're looking for an example, Dead Cells does a really nice job with their elemental affix system.)
Do something about the limited range of turrets. Many turrets are a terrible choice simply because they don't have enough range to effectively clear enemies. This is particularly frustrating to DotE players who are used to turrets covering an entire room.
If possible, somehow bring back the power management/enemy spawn mechanic of DotE. A lot of people are complaining about that being removed, and it added a lot of depth to the strategy.
Take the RNG out of the level-up system and instead have more clearly-defined character progression.
Make the items more meaningful and unique. This will probably involve removing the downsides from many of the items.
I already posted here, but I wished to give more clear examples of what I said previously https://community.amplitude-studios.com/amplitude-studios/endless-dungeon/forums/203-general/threads/55310-improving-replayability-of-endless-dungeon?page=1#post-376439 also I divided it into more posts cause I struggle a lot at being brief and simple, sorry btw
Weapons (tools):
I really miss mechanics that change the way you play in a sense that it needs me to do more than simply shooting mindlessly until the wave ends. I think part of the boredoom and low variability feeling comes from here. I would love to see something like a heat gauge in some weapons, the more you shoot, higher the dmg or fire rate, if it gets too hot, it starts damaging you over time. It can cool down by stopping shooting or by shoving an enemy or a turret. So you are rewarded for playing riskier. You have synergy with healer characters and healing passives. Heated weapons have improved shove dmg (since its like, super super hot) or a special effect, like criting with the weapons element or adding a high wit value to a turret.
I would love to see something like a higher range flamethrower that deals no dmg to monsters, but buffs allies and turrets in its arc, so it is still challenging (and rewarding) to use it.
-Skill tree for weapons could be awesome to give them unique feelings from one another too, while also having more universal modifiers chips to install in said skilltrees could help a lot with building synergy
-different shove attacks and interaction for each weapon, like adding "+%dmg to turrets from same element and +%def to turrets from different ones" in a pistol; "knockback and explodes (after 1 second) enemy hit by shove atack" on another pistol; enchanting a maximum of 2 monsters to fight for you; applying elemental crit effects on shove; make turrets focus on shoved enemy target; make you char invisible or untargetable by monsters for some seconds; transform elemental damage type for some seconds on a neutral turret; gives a ton of defense according to wit to a turret and make it taunt enemies; or sacrifice a turret to explode and deal area damage if it breaks in the next few seconds... and so on
Having "during run" progression or/and meta progression (saloon) missions for guns could be really really cool. They could maybe be a special mission chip you can choose at the saloon, buy at a special vendor during runs or in chests (since chests and looting are ultra ultra boring). This would require to be able to install chips in weapons during runs too or having more "trinket" (the passive equipable from vendor) and chips, idk. These "during run" mission could be:
-straight foward mission (low risk, low reward): kill x enemies with this gun to gain +x% dmg with it. -> Personally I dont like this kinda mission, and think they are better for small meta progressions, but better than nothing.
-penalty at start mission(medium risk, high reward): Halves the weapon %dmg. After dealing x crit shots with this gun, you gain [20% critchance, 20% defense and 20% firerate] for heroes (or turrets) in the room. -> So it might be a bad decision to get this as your main dmg dealer, but can be a very good option for the support, I love this kind of tradeoffs that better define your build
-wear after use missions (high risk, low instant reward, high delayed reward): install this chip to get +100% dmg on the gun and -100% defense. Every time you kill an enemy with the gun this chip is installed on, you gain 3 food. After 10kills this chip is destroyed. If you character gets lower than 10% hp, the chip is also destroyed -> So, it can have a low value in the short term, but you get rid of the penalty fast and get some resource. OR you can risk holding it for a boss or a hard wave, at the cost of potentialy dying and getting no reward from it and having one less weapon available, since you are holding it for a better moment. A better moment when 30 food might no be that helpful anymore. Think of this as a grenade that gives resource.
-another way to do the above idea, Glass Cannon: Weapon with 5 bullets that breakes after use. Weapon deal +200% damage. Gives 30 resource when destroyed. If user gets below 70% hp weapon is destroyed and gives no resource. -> this could be and endless weapon
-mechanich changing mission: do something. After completed, weapon has 50% less fire speed, but shoots 2 additional bullets. This could be cool with the "+150% dmg if 2 seconds without shooting" thing. Could be even cooler with a "every 1 second without shooting gives +10%critchance on next shot and on every damage dealt 1.5 seconds after it"
Another thing could be elemental and status reactions, a thing that I believe coould help A LOT with "trash" turrets viability and adress part of the low weapon variability problem while also helping create synergy in the game. Like burning over poisoning do something, or piercing a slowed enemy do another thing. Divinity Original Sin 2 has some cool ideas. Genshin Impact (god forbid) too.
The weapons that actually feel unique are the flamethrower and the ligh arch pulse, but they both feel high risky and super low reward to use. They could have some numbers adjusted, cause the light arch really feels like could one shot things, but I think, more importantly, that they lack synergy with other stuff that still doenst exist, like element reactions, to actually feel rewarding to use. Especificaly to the light arch, I would rather if it charged and only shot when I released the button, so, in top of that, it had some "while being charged" effect. Like pulling small enemies to its "magnetic" arc. Or, while being charged, enemies hit by the charging arc area gives +%critchance and move speed to the user. So it feels cool to cross a wave with the weapon and then release it right in the middle of it. Imagine then having a "knockback on hit" modifier and a "dmg when enemy hit structure after knockbacked" trinket. It would be even cooler to dive in the wave, even if super risky. Those are the kinda of fun synergies this game lacks severely and is normaly expected from roguelikes.
Turrets (tools):
Could borrow some of the ideas for weapons above. Could also have a similar system to the one weapons have in the saloon. Chips that we could install not only to buff turrets, but to modify how they work. Things like:
-adds a heat gauge modifier to the turret, similar to the weapon idea above. When overheated it deals dmg to itself, or explodes dealing dmg area, or stops working. It can cooldown by being shoved or beying attacked by melee enemies while dealing return damage.
-turret has 100% critchance, but deals 90% reduced crit damage. So, the turret work as an elemental crit effect applier. Either a CC turret or a damage over time turret.
-special shove effects could really help make both weapons and turrets shine. These could be a passive for the turrets in the saloon OR being a shove effect from the weapons, as said earlier.
TL,DR: I think most of the boredoom of weapons comes to how we use them mechanicaly. Charged weapons, "shotguns", "snipers", miniguns. They are used the same. Hold the fire button til wave ends. What could be really helpfull here is adding new mechanics, like a heat gauge and missions that either change the way we use the gun to complete it or change the way we use it as a reward. Also modifiers chips/skilltree and having many more shove effects, as well as reactions between multiple elements and status on enemies.
Hi everyone, as a game designer working on improving ED, just a quick note to let you know that this thread so far is clearly gathering the type of feedback we were looking for. This really helps us, even today, to fuel our internal reflections, and in the right directions. Thanks for that!
Hi everyone, as a game designer working on improving ED, just a quick note to let you know that this thread so far is clearly gathering the type of feedback we were looking for. This really helps us, even today, to fuel our internal reflections, and in the right directions. Thanks for that!
I’ve shared some ideas in the steam forum, so I’ll try not to repeat myself too much https://steamcommunity.com/app/1485590/discussions/5/3874844033663463425/ and https://steamcommunity.com/app/1485590/discussions/5/3877095200012095923/ or spamming too much on this thread.
A mission to find the Golden Multi-Layered Infusion Mixer. That allow us to mix multiple ingredients (that we buy with scraps) to create our own beverages. Similar to hades lategame contract/heat system, where we can choose multiple global modifiers to make the runs more challenging. Or making the beverages more spicy. Challenges and missions unlock more ingredients, finding some npc in runs too. etc. So, this way, we can have multiple beverages effects on the same run, making some very cool synergies and challenges. I would keep the beverages recommended from the menu, but also the "your own mix" option for late game craziness and fun. These ingredients could be found on the runs, doing missions, buying from merchants in the run, dropping from encounters, etc.
Having more unexpected challenges during runs and more interesting interactions with dust could be really cool too. Dust right now feels super boring to use. The reroll vendor with dust is a useful add, but not a super fun one.
also, having specific encounters (special risk/reward enemies and challenges, special npcs like the vendor, etc) for each area could be nice. The only meaningful change between starting from one place or another is the boss we are facing mid run. If there were more differences (thematic encounters) it could be really refreshing. Also, bosses could give different rewards as well as having modificators to its fights.
Dead state does encounters very well. There are time challenges to get a reward, there is a big BIG dude that chases you when you spend too much time in the floor (I believe this is how it works, at least). I believe having something similar, but with doors oppened (not raw time) could work here. So it could be interesting to lure him to get some COOL reward, like an endless tier weapon, if those get reworked, since right now they are mega boring.
Having an event where some doors shut and you are trapped in a room (with turrets slots) and have to fight an elite enemy could be cool too. It could have a time sensitive reward system. So, the fastest you kill it, the bigger your reward (making spending industry to turret the room interesting). And instead of using a timer in the screen, it could have different time marks, like luring small enemies or the elite changing elements every 10 seconds, or whatever. This could be really fun with the weapon idea I gave on another post in this thread. The 5 bullets weapon that deals a shit ton of damage, but breaks after use giving some low resource. Having different tools to deal with possible challenges, but not single tools that can deal with all possible challenges.
Having some doors you oppened already get shut, this could synergize with the following...
Having more door(room) sensitive stuff going on: Like a stele that gives you +200% damage, but makes you lose 15% everytime you open a door, or, if not a stele, a mission/challenge you buy from a very dust greedy merchant that sells useful stuff, but with some nasty details. Like the small text on a contract (Dust Genie, maybe a virtual endless, idk). Also, having positive stuff to it, like the auto vaccun cleaner from the steam post that gives more rewards the more doors (rooms, actually) you open foor it to clean.
Having more resource sensitive stuff: Like events that can happen with low and high dust count, enemies that hunt dust, enemies that hate dust. But with rewards if killed, protected, interacted with, whatever. Or with other resources too. Weapons that work better the higher or lower of a resource you have. Premium vendors that you unlock to the next run (you get a card you can use before run, for example) by buying a ton of things in a run, etc
Having special rooms with challenges, thematic challenges, idk. Things that actually make me excited or feared of opening doors. Because right now they are just a thing I do kinda mindlessly, and are not very meaningful choices I make.
A weather or fortune teller (or the hacker, since its there) npc on the saloon that tells you what could be the "weather" in the next run. Just a run modifier that could be used as challenge (like beverage) or tool to deal with challenge (build enablers, synergy stuff, etc). But, unlike the beverages that requires you to activate it, the season/weather/occurance requires you to deactivate it (Pay the hacker some scraps to stabilize it). Creating random special runs. If you guys come up with a lot of new events and encounters (please devs senpai), but feel like it could be too much on the same run, this weather system could be a way to randomly filter and pack some of it. The inspiration for this is the feeling the seasons in Endless Legend gave to me. Like this window of new opportunities. Something that I couldnt really control, but could take advantage of it (maybe stuff happening outside the station? comets moving around idk). If this feels to much like the beverages, It could be implemented with "the mixed ingredients to create own beverage", but asking the barman to add secret ingredients (like a multiple beverages aspects randomizer).
Something that I kinda already said, but would like to explain better. Having stuff you find in a run that is insteresting for the next run. Not just scraps. Ingredients for the "my own mix" beverages, for example. Since barman and comrade are the only npcs that have power to alter the runs, directly with beverages and indirectly with chips, my examples are kinda tied to to those options. I would love if the band and the hacker could alter things too. Not only giving missions, but providing ways to alter the gameplay, and so enabling new builds (tools) and giving us different challenges. But the new challenges cant rely only on npcs on saloon, having more in-runs npcs that provide those new ways to alter gameplay is important. My fear with npcs is that it would add a lot of different challenges, but not unexpected challenges (as I said in an earlier post in this thread). Part of the fortune teller idea with the seasons is to adress that, but having more encounters in-run (like blackout and mining) feels important to help with run variability. So adaptation to challenges comes not only in the saloon, but also in the middle of the run.
Sorry for being a little spammy here. But I thought this would be better than sending a single GIANT post. I'll probably add more to the thread later as I'm playing other games and insights are coming. But for now its pretty much it. Thanks for opening the space for feedback and suggestion. I believe you guys to have a beautiful and fun base game that can become an fking awesome game. Cheers!!
I hate "elite" enemies. They makes things more unpredictable, well-established defense systems (turret placement) can become useless because of it... Sometimes I have to shoot certain enemies for literally half minute to die. It feels silly, not necessarily in line with the lore, it just feels like pure pain. Don't take this suggestion too seriously, as it seems many people here want more unpredictable and challenging runs.
I second the repetitiveness of the final boss though. Gets repetitive quickly, and I barely enjoy it (most fun in the very last fight, because it doesn't disappear like 10 times...). Smaller bosses are more enjoyable, because there is 3 of them, not always the same in every single run.
It would be tons of work, but even more locations and unique rooms would help (like the virtualization room, the AI war room in the Hive Mind, or the room with the bio tank with its resident obviously missing... These rooms might be mostly useless, they always cheer me up a bit with the amazing art, sounds and lore. They pull me out of the "quickly open doors before the next wave, which means having to deal with the clunky AI controls" cycle.).
To be honest the more I play the game, the more I feel like I really really want to play a proper AAA-like single player or even mmo game in the Endless universe. The foundations are so solid, I kind of just want to live in the universe more and more with its amazing races, events, artifacts, technology... The thing I enjoy most in Endless Dungeon is putting the story together, the lore basically.
As someone had said, I see how the 3 character chip/modifier thing seems sustainable, but after some time they feel like they aren't even there. Not necessarily because they are weak, but maybe because they don't change the gameplay of the character too much. At least the vast majority of them. Like +25% damage? Ok cool, I'll do the very same thing with it and without it anyway, shooting a lot. So a bit more customization for characters would definitely help. Like a talent system, or even getting to choose between 2 active abilities (at the start of a run, or changeable in the Saloon like chips are now), making every character potentially 2-3 characters. For example I like how strong Sweeper is with turrets (tons of wit), but his active ability (Q, slow in a cone) is just so uninteresting... I'm sure many people enjoy it (it certainly is good in a coherent team), but I personally would change it to almost anything else/more impactful if I could.
Obviously more characters would also help. I assume this option had been considered before release, seeing the relatively numerous non-playable characters in the Saloon.
Take this comment with a grain of salt. I can't possibly know what the majority of players might want (I have only played with bots thus far...), and I don't even know if I would enjoy the game much more with my suggested changes implemented. They just *seem* like things I miss now (more special rooms, more end-boss variety, more character customization (even abilities)).
It's tough picking the right direction for the game (especially with the laughably low scores on steam...), good luck with it. Whatever happens, I trust you guys, keep working on great stuff in this universe. Absolutely anything Endless, I'm in. (big, single player/coop rpg/action game, wink wink (I know, I know, financially it would possibly be a suicide. Still, the universe/lore is so amazing, it feels bad seeing it only in such *relatively* smaller projects.))
There is no randomized anything. Rare weapons have no extra chance for extra damage or extra traits or other wild and crazy stats to make it amazing to see one drop, it's just another weapon, but this one is green not Grey.
There was the recent update, but it did not balance the game, you just nerfed everything because you did not like the way people were using the tools you gave to use, which both feels, and sounds bad.
Most weapons felt terrible to use before and after getting all their mods, and now they even feel worse because they deal less damage.
There is a core flaw in this game. Combat does not directly lead to character power progression(in session); exploring does, which means combat is to be avoided at all cost. A core part of your game, combat, what you play the game for, is not incentivized with rewarding anything for actually surviving it. For that you have to open a door.
If all the doors were opened up and it was just endless waves of enemies, you would very quickly loose, because of the lack of character power progression within combat itself.
The game is fun me and my frienfs talked about a mode like binding of isac where you can after the endboss start directly a new run with all the upgrades. Or more random events that can happen mini boss spawn or something to defend or something totaly different. And maybe we can use oure scrap during a run for something only for the chest and i have still now 60k
POINT 1: Make special waves happen more often please, they seem to only happen once per run, and they add uniqueness to each run!! (also it seems that special waves are bugged right now, they don't seem to last as long as intended)
POINT 2: More variations on bosses and add more RNG elements to them, right now as a rogue like there is too many ways to get the best stuff and fight the easiest bosses giving too much power of choice to players and this is a bad thing, they can just get what they want in each run this lessens variation. especially since the recent patch removed some RNG from the shop.
I'm sure someone has possibly made this suggestion, but the addition of a survival mode may enhance re-playability. Say, (3) heros start in a single room, and fend off successive waves of monsters. Throw in a means of upgrades, gaining resources for turrets, a couple mini-boss/ultra monster types for added adrenaline, and a timer for leaderboards.
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Hi, me again, sorry lul. Well, I've been playing some other games, paying more attention to stuff and noted some things that I think could be worth looking at. Also, I took a lot of showers since my last post (as one would not only imagine, but recomend) and it gave me a lot of random ideas:
edit: maybe having enemies dropping temporary shield globes/shards/thing you collect could enable more melee or close combat playstyles and builds in the future /edit
Random stuff first:
A risk/reward idea: opening doors during waves not only empowers the waves for each door, but also gives stats bonuses (+5% crit chance til wave ends for every door opened after wave triggered) or resources bonuses (adds +1 resources to the total a door gives for every door during this wave), or have higher chances to trigger a very hard event or enemy (after third door, lets say) that drops good shit. like, AWESOME shit. It might be interesting if this enemy also gave industry. So it's kinda a gamble. I can prepare some very expensive but nice defenses to see If I can get even more resources than what I invested. If I fail, well, fuck me. If I see I’m in a very good window on the scaling, lets say, I got a super good weapon, Had luck with the turrets I wanted and My characters got a nice synergy in their build with my tools and against this particular challenge. I can have the option to get bold and risky, and have a nice reward if I succeed. Or back to the saloon. An optional mini game that helps you beat the big game. This could be synergetic with time sensitive bonus, missions or challenges, like arriving early at a room on a floor to find a npc before the fucker leaves with no trace but a note, or something like that.
weapons:
-there is a weapon in Prey that shoots chunks of “glue”. It can create (destructive) structures that could be interesting here to wave control small corridors. Also it paralyzes enemies for a while, so you can melee them. Can be a trap turret too
-weapon (or turret) that launches a small elemental beast that chases and marks one enemy and applies elemental crit effect. If a marked enemy dies, nearby monsters are also marked and crit effects are applied. This mark can be a debuff that spreads on kill too, idk
-mine thrower that explodes when the shove button is pressed. If shove hits an enemy, the explosion is empowered. modifiers: Slows enemies affected by Unexploded mines // the longer you wait to trigger it, the bigger is the explosion.
-bouncing weapons: weapon that deals more dmg the more the projectile bounces at walls or bounce at floor. You know, like a ball that gets angrier the more it bounces in a direction. Maybe a weapon//modifier that launches a ball that gets bigger the more it travels or bounces. and another modifier that makes it explode, slow, stun, pull enemies, idk
-weapon mod: teleguided shots, so we can shoot from up to 90 degrees (imagine the possibilities)
-cursed weapon: deals 1% of your hp as dmg (until you have like, 40%hp? maybe 30%?). adds lost hp% to atk bonus. Can stack with other similar effects, like hero upgrades and whatever.
Turrets:
-weapon dock turrets: a turret that allows you to instal a equipable weapon on it. So the guns you found and are not good enough to be carried, can have a fun use. Having a "trash weapons I found on the floor" menu could be a really QoL, so we chose the weapon we want to install in the turret from the menu, instead of running around for minutes to adjust everything.
-trigger turret, when shoved, all barrel turrets in room explode; or, when shoved, all turrets in room lose x% hp based on wit of shover, but gets the same amount as atk% dmg for 3 seconds. Another way to burst stuff by sacrificing turrets. Synergy with the healing turret and the explosive barrel turret. If there are modifiers to these turret explosions, like, damage turned into cc or debuff stuff, you can build some really cool setups. I miss this very much. Having to strategize on the turrets setup on the room.
-portal turret: every 5 secs warps every monster in the area to another portal turret
-scout turret: Every 30s it automatically moves to another room and docks in another slot. A “turret” you install and forget about it or a roguebot you find in a room and starts helping you by scouting rooms it can slot itself. idk
-”programable” turrets, if condition met do this, if not do that. So a single turret can do 2 things
-turret that charges by getting damaged. An angrier version of the hologram turret. After losing 50% hp it does area dmg, after dying it does it again. Can be a modifier for the hologram turret
Other?:
-consumable or optional event: triggers a wave and makes you earn resources per monster killed during 30s. After 30s the wave ends. Alters gameplay optionally. Makes you play riskier, like spreading your heroes to gather resources from more places and invading spawn points to make the last seconds worth, but with a nice reward if you want it.
-distance sensitive bonuses: +dmg% the further the shot traveled (or the further the enemy is, or the closer, idk). +% chance of applying a specific on random stats the more or less the shot travels, etc
-monster drops: monster could drop stuff that vanishes after some time. Like small health globes or buff globes. +small% firerate for some seconds when getting the drop. Or reallysmall% permanent buffs. Don't make it drop in waves triggered by moving the bot to avoid exploits… or allow it, idk
-can we have temporary pets we find during runs? Pets that give different bonuses depending on its race, bark at monsters making them vulnerable, piss on turrets nearby buffing them... no? too much? maybe like a reward from the "protect or kill the funny egg about to hatch in this cool room" event? no? ok :(
-better visual feedback: Like monsters lured by bunker/hologram effect, turret’s buffs coming from shove duration (maybe an arc on the floor below turret), stun duration, etc. Afraid this would overflow the game with information, but this is something I really miss.
Steles (specially the neutral/orange ones):
I think having more of this per floor could be interesting. And having three options: pay 2 dust, doubling both the good effect and the bad effect; 1 dust to turn it off aaaaaaand fight it to turn it off. The stele guardian needs to be added to the game first, but that's ok, we have time. Now let's say you really pissed off the stele guardians during the run. They will try to stop this madness on a floor ahead... Or, if you please them by offering enough dust at the steles you found, they might give gifts or help you in the future… Like activating a good/bad/neutral stele at bosses that alter how the boss (or the floor) is played.
Even without the trippy guardian thing, having more neutral steles per floor and adding more effects to them could really refresh the runs and add to replayability. Even more if we can spend dust to not only deactivate the steles, but also enhance them. "30% more dmg against monsters, 30% more mov speed to monsters" spend dust to make em both 60%.
-"Time" (door) sensitive steles: For the next 3 doors you get double the resources, but always trigger waves. Let me enhance it to get it for the next 6 doors.
-Modifing steles: All blobs in floor turned into bots. Light damage now heal bots.
Other games:
Roboquest: I played a lot of a game that was launched recently called roboquest. Its a fps roguelite, super fun, anyway. I think this game is a great example of good synergy and how different weapons feel mechanically. I actually have some screenshots of it as examples, but I don't know if it's cool to share them here. Anyway, I think it's worth looking at some gameplay. They have very interesting elemental types and effects that you can build around.
So, imagine this: you bought a good passive that gives "100%crit chance on your first shot after reloading the weapon", so you are looking for a sniper (few high dmg shots, gonna reload a lot), but all you got was a smg (lots of small dmg shots). Its ok, it's still useful, let's keep looking. Then you got a passive that makes "crit damage having a high chance to explode" (now you single target sniper does area damage). Then you got a upgrade that makes "damage done to monsters hit by an explosion having increased %critchance", then you get a affix on another smg that makes you have "increased fire rate after dealing explosion dmg". Wait a sec, I don't need a sniper anymore, I can use the "100%crit chance at first shot" thing as an enabler to trigger explosions periodically and buff my atkspeed (so, reloading more often). And now you a have a fucking awesome extremely fun run. (I made up some of these stuff, but others don't, just an example).
Now, let's say that instead of giving "100%crit chance on your first shot after reloading", you get it "after swapping between primary and secondary weapons". Let's say that you also got the "crit shots deal explosion" passive, and your character has a "burn on explosion dmg" upgrade and a "weapon dmg added to explosion dmg". Also, you get an "increased explosion radius against elemental affected enemies”. Your wet dream is walking around with two snipers and swapping them every few shots, since you automatically reload the weapon that is not being used, hence not losing rhythm. That's an insane level of fun, synergy and adaptability for me. (again, made up some stuff).
Also, another cool thing about roboquest is that you are always changing weapons (so, new possibilities) to match the lvl of the enemies the more you advance on the run - weapons have levels, if you don't upgrade them or get new ones, your damage falls behind the more you advance - So you can keep adding or adapting the build. Also, the weapons have a possibility to have a (random, I believe) alternate fire mode. Sometimes you get a shotgun shot to your grenade launcher as an alternate fire, sometimes it boosts fire rate, teleguided missiles, etc. Looting in this game is not only extremely fun, it's also extremely meaningful. Because it makes sense to always look for new stuff since they have higher levels and naturally do more dmg. You can keep old weapons, you just have to upgrade them, but new weapons often come in higher tiers too, so more affixes and more possibilities to change your build during runs.
And lastly, Roboquest enemies drop health globes that heal you for 1hp. These globes vanish after a short time, so you are encouraged to dive in to heal yourself. Rewarding you for going melee sometimes. There is even a weapon that is a pair of fists, full melee, that I think drops more healing orbs when killing enemies. So melee builds are super viable too, because there are movement upgrades and passives that help you close gaps even if you are not using the more melee oriented class.
Death Must Die: Another game I played is Death Must Die. It has great synergy examples too, I would look out for it. Also, it’s meta progression is interesting. It’s basically built around the equipment your characters find during runs, buy at a vendor in the lobby or trade with each other and that you can keep between runs. These items have some base stats, some affixes, and stuff. Although they act more like stat sticks rather than build definers, they open a lot of possibilities to new builds, so looting here is also very interesting, even if just for selling trash in hopes of getting something good on the vendor later.
Dead State secondary weapons vanish after they get out of ammo, so you are always looking for another. Also, there are some interesting weapons mechanichs and synergies here. Like capping your max money at some value, but when getting to this value, all dmg% is increased and every money drop becomes another thing.
Curse of The Dead Gods has something called Offhand Combo (I believe this is it in english), where your secondary weapon finishes the atack combo and can have different effects dependending on the weapons types and affixes you have equipped. (offhand combo always crits, breaks defense, etc).
From Space: some good examples of encounters, different weapons mechanics and another game that encourages you to swap between equipped weapons by dropping ammo for all weapons types but the one you are killing the monster with. If you only use one weapon, you run out of ammo. It doesn't have to be ammo here, it can be temporary elemental power or critchance for all elements but the one from the weapon you are killing the monsters with.
Ending, finally:
Hopefully this wasn't a pain or too confusing to read because it ended up being waaay bigger than intended, again lul. I wrote all those feedbacks/ideas posts cause I really enjoyed the vibe of ED and I think you have a cool game that can become an awesome game.
Not saying that ED has to solve things the same way as these games, some things, like headshots, don't really apply here. I just brought them as examples of games that did well, in its own universe of possibilities and identity, things that I consider to be lacking or underwhelming (like synergy, looting and weapon mechanics) in ED.
And by no means I think that my ideas are the only way to do stuff, they are just some food for thought and things that as a player of the roguelike genre I think could really fit here. Thanks again for being open for feedback and the community ideas! Have a nice week and happy holidays!
Endless Dungeon is a gorgeous game with fun gameplay. I hope you continue developing content.
I play mostly "arcade style" multiplayer games such as Deep Rock Galactic and Helldivers (where you load up a short mission or match, then succeed or fail, and then opt to launch another mission or call it a night). This mission style is convenient to play with busy adult friends.
Roguelites that I've enjoyed include Darkest Dungeon & Hades.
I'm in the camp of giving the player more choice, not less. Runs where I don't choose the path feel like I have less agency. Instead give me more meaningful choices everytime that I'm prompted to make a choice. (One of Helldivers most compelling base choices is allowing the player to choose their exact starting location when launching the next run.)
What will make you play more runs?
Darkest Dungeon, Hades, Deep Rock, and Helldivers, have two gameplay loops that feed into each other:
1.base phase: setting up for a run.
2. The mission.
Completing a mission grants a reward that the player fiddles with at base. Then the player is compelled to try the new reward in a new run.
Returning to base offers a surprise every time (aka base events). Each base phase is series of management choices that sets the player up for a new run, often by presenting the player with a unique challenge for a unique reward (and the choice is unavoidable or not easily ignored). The player has to opt in or out of the challenge for their next run.
IMHO, the most compelling base event in the game currently is what song the band is playing. It's charming, but this event has no effect on the next run.
Endless Dungeon could provide the player unique but limited time opportunities (that are unavoidable - a choice has to be made even if it's to opt out of a challenge).
Fassie could recommend a drink that offers a unique reward like starting with extra dust. Comrade could request you field test a weapon or turret (on a specific enemy type) which gives it to the player as a starting option.
Bunker offers bounties that leads to a mini boss with a unique reward.
Blaze sells you dynamite to blow away debris blocking a special door that hides a chest.
Currently:
Fassie offers all drinks and all rewards are always the same, chips. The reward is not compelling since we can earn chips by playing a level. (So, why opt for a drink?)
Chests found in a level are opened without a thought -the choice is a given. We don't have to choose between two chests and we don't have to spend keys to unlock them.
We can buy chests but there's no choice because we can only buy one. Once the player has enough scrap they always purchase the high end choice. The choice is practically made for the player.
Give the player more choices at base to set up for a run. Let us buy 3-4 items to bring into a run: turret chests, weapon chests, keys, device chests, single use maps that reveal what's behind adjacent doors, etc so we have to make choices.
Give the player opportunity cost choices and make rewards generous. Don't be stingy with currency or spike the costs. The cost is the opportunity.
We play another run if there is a challenge or goal that one of my friends is trying to accomplish. Endless Dungeon character missions are a similar mechanic but those were only 4 steps.
Deep Rock has a season pass that offers cosmetic rewards. We also chased weapon modifiers (called overclocks) that vastly altered a weapon's behavior. I think a cosmetic season pass would fit for Endless Dungeon. However, I feel weapon modifiers should be discovered during a run since it is a roguelite.
Is there a specific area or element that you would like to be expanded/improved (weapons, variety of upgrades, unique modifiers, etc)?
1. Weapon & turret modifiers that change the behavior of the weapons/turrets drastically. (A holo turret that returns damage, a napalm turret that leaves aoe).
2. Modifiers for character skill and ultimates. (Blaze's dynamite could turn into tesla spikes, his ult could electrify the room he's in and maybe turn on the power?)
3. More mission events. We have blackouts & crystal shard events that mix up a run. We need more of these.
Can the bot hack something?
Bounties?
Challenges where you need to use a specific element (turret or weapon): power a grid with electricity, dissolve a lock with acid?
Destroy the mega nest/spawner?
4. More bosses
What in the meta progression should be improved/added to motivate doing more runs?
I don't think the game needs more difficulty levels. (At least until issues like variety and balance are addressed.) The game would just turn into a grind slog without adding more variety.
I think the game could use more narrative content. It seems like the ending is the same for every single team combination. Also, their personal missions lack story cinematics as rewards.
On the elevator, the player is given a choice for the 2nd and 3rd floor locations but there's no info or consequence given to make the choice compelling.
Modifiers or intel could be added to this moment of choice.
i.e.
Life incubator has a crystal shard.
Factory has a gold chest
Or
Life incubator (gain random device)
Factory (gain random resource)
Now, the player deliberates over the choice.
DErock wrote:
Endless Dungeon is a gorgeous game with fun gameplay. I hope you continue developing content.
I play mostly "arcade style" multiplayer games such as Deep Rock Galactic and Helldivers (where you load up a short mission or match, then succeed or fail, and then opt to launch another mission or call it a night). This mission style is convenient to play with busy adult friends.
Roguelites that I've enjoyed include Darkest Dungeon & Hades.
I'm in the camp of giving the player more choice, not less. Runs where I don't choose the path feel like I have less agency. Instead give me more meaningful choices everytime that I'm prompted to make a choice. (One of Helldivers most compelling base choices is allowing the player to choose their exact starting location when launching the next run.)
What will make you play more runs?
Darkest Dungeon, Hades, Deep Rock, and Helldivers, have two gameplay loops that feed into each other:
1.base phase: setting up for a run.
2. The mission.
Completing a mission grants a reward that the player fiddles with at base. Then the player is compelled to try the new reward in a new run.
Returning to base offers a surprise every time (aka base events). Each base phase is series of management choices that sets the player up for a new run, often by presenting the player with a unique challenge for a unique reward (and the choice is unavoidable or not easily ignored). The player has to opt in or out of the challenge for their next run.
IMHO, the most compelling base event in the game currently is what song the band is playing. It's charming, but this event has no effect on the next run.
Endless Dungeon could provide the player unique but limited time opportunities (that are unavoidable - a choice has to be made even if it's to opt out of a challenge).
Fassie could recommend a drink that offers a unique reward like starting with extra dust. Comrade could request you field test a weapon or turret (on a specific enemy type) which gives it to the player as a starting option.
Bunker offers bounties that leads to a mini boss with a unique reward.
Blaze sells you dynamite to blow away debris blocking a special door that hides a chest.
Currently:
Fassie offers all drinks and all rewards are always the same, chips. The reward is not compelling since we can earn chips by playing a level. (So, why opt for a drink?)
Chests found in a level are opened without a thought -the choice is a given. We don't have to choose between two chests and we don't have to spend keys to unlock them.
We can buy chests but there's no choice because we can only buy one. Once the player has enough scrap they always purchase the high end choice. The choice is practically made for the player.
Give the player more choices at base to set up for a run. Let us buy 3-4 items to bring into a run: turret chests, weapon chests, keys, device chests, single use maps that reveal what's behind adjacent doors, etc so we have to make choices.
Give the player opportunity cost choices and make rewards generous. Don't be stingy with currency or spike the costs. The cost is the opportunity.
We play another run if there is a challenge or goal that one of my friends is trying to accomplish. Endless Dungeon character missions are a similar mechanic but those were only 4 steps.
Deep Rock has a season pass that offers cosmetic rewards. We also chased weapon modifiers (called overclocks) that vastly altered a weapon's behavior. I think a cosmetic season pass would fit for Endless Dungeon. However, I feel weapon modifiers should be discovered during a run since it is a roguelite.
Is there a specific area or element that you would like to be expanded/improved (weapons, variety of upgrades, unique modifiers, etc)?
1. Weapon & turret modifiers that change the behavior of the weapons/turrets drastically. (A holo turret that returns damage, a napalm turret that leaves aoe).
2. Modifiers for character skill and ultimates. (Blaze's dynamite could turn into tesla spikes, his ult could electrify the room he's in and maybe turn on the power?)
3. More mission events. We have blackouts & crystal shard events that mix up a run. We need more of these.
Can the bot hack something?
Bounties?
Challenges where you need to use a specific element (turret or weapon): power a grid with electricity, dissolve a lock with acid?
Destroy the mega nest/spawner?
4. More bosses
What in the meta progression should be improved/added to motivate doing more runs?
I don't think the game needs more difficulty levels. (At least until issues like variety and balance are addressed.) The game would just turn into a grind slog without adding more variety.
I think the game could use more narrative content. It seems like the ending is the same for every single team combination. Also, their personal missions lack story cinematics as rewards.
Endless Dungeon is a gorgeous game with fun gameplay. I hope you continue developing content.
I play mostly "arcade style" multiplayer games such as Deep Rock Galactic and Helldivers (where you load up a short mission or match, then succeed or fail, and then opt to launch another mission or call it a night). This mission style is convenient to play with busy adult friends.
Roguelites that I've enjoyed include Darkest Dungeon & Hades.
I'm in the camp of giving the player more choice, not less. Runs where I don't choose the path feel like I have less agency. Instead give me more meaningful choices everytime that I'm prompted to make a choice. (One of Helldivers most compelling base choices is allowing the player to choose their exact starting location when launching the next run.)
What will make you play more runs?
Darkest Dungeon, Hades, Deep Rock, and Helldivers, have two gameplay loops that feed into each other:
1.base phase: setting up for a run.
2. The mission.
Completing a mission grants a reward that the player fiddles with at base. Then the player is compelled to try the new reward in a new run.
Returning to base offers a surprise every time (aka base events). Each base phase is series of management choices that sets the player up for a new run, often by presenting the player with a unique challenge for a unique reward (and the choice is unavoidable or not easily ignored). The player has to opt in or out of the challenge for their next run.
IMHO, the most compelling base event in the game currently is what song the band is playing. It's charming, but this event has no effect on the next run.
Endless Dungeon could provide the player unique but limited time opportunities (that are unavoidable - a choice has to be made even if it's to opt out of a challenge).
Fassie could recommend a drink that offers a unique reward like starting with extra dust. Comrade could request you field test a weapon or turret (on a specific enemy type) which gives it to the player as a starting option.
Bunker offers bounties that leads to a mini boss with a unique reward.
Blaze sells you dynamite to blow away debris blocking a special door that hides a chest.
Currently:
Fassie offers all drinks and all rewards are always the same, chips. The reward is not compelling since we can earn chips by playing a level. (So, why opt for a drink?)
Chests found in a level are opened without a thought -the choice is a given. We don't have to choose between two chests and we don't have to spend keys to unlock them.
We can buy chests but there's no choice because we can only buy one. Once the player has enough scrap they always purchase the high end choice. The choice is practically made for the player.
Give the player more choices at base to set up for a run. Let us buy 3-4 items to bring into a run: turret chests, weapon chests, keys, device chests, single use maps that reveal what's behind adjacent doors, etc so we have to make choices.
Give the player opportunity cost choices and make rewards generous. Don't be stingy with currency or spike the costs. The cost is the opportunity.
We play another run if there is a challenge or goal that one of my friends is trying to accomplish. Endless Dungeon character missions are a similar mechanic but those were only 4 steps.
Deep Rock has a season pass that offers cosmetic rewards. We also chased weapon modifiers (called overclocks) that vastly altered a weapon's behavior. I think a cosmetic season pass would fit for Endless Dungeon. However, I feel weapon modifiers should be discovered during a run since it is a roguelite.
Is there a specific area or element that you would like to be expanded/improved (weapons, variety of upgrades, unique modifiers, etc)?
1. Weapon & turret modifiers that change the behavior of the weapons/turrets drastically. (A holo turret that returns damage, a napalm turret that leaves aoe).
2. Modifiers for character skill and ultimates. (Blaze's dynamite could turn into tesla spikes, his ult could electrify the room he's in and maybe turn on the power?)
3. More mission events. We have blackouts & crystal shard events that mix up a run. We need more of these.
Can the bot hack something?
Bounties?
Challenges where you need to use a specific element (turret or weapon): power a grid with electricity, dissolve a lock with acid?
Destroy the mega nest/spawner?
4. More bosses
What in the meta progression should be improved/added to motivate doing more runs?
I don't think the game needs more difficulty levels. (At least until issues like variety and balance are addressed.) The game would just turn into a grind slog without adding more variety.
I think the game could use more narrative content. It seems like the ending is the same for every single team combination. Also, their personal missions lack story cinematics as rewards.
Oh, base events and preparing for the next run, this could be really cool. I played some helldivers and a lot of the strategy began even before deploying for mission. That could be a very interesting idea to bring to ED. More meaningful choices on the saloon.
I love the game, but it still needs more content. Compared to the original DotE it definetely has a lack of it.
My suggestions for Endless Dungeon will be: 1) An Endless Day event in this game. We have it in every other game of the series, but still there is nothing like that here. 2) More characters to play. Original game had a tons of them compared to ED. (I hope to see melee, casters with no weapon, operating/upgrading stuff chars... and Opbot ofc!). 3) More minor and major modules. (those odd and fun to play like keep cannon that was useful when you had a ton of science or pepper spray) 4) More gameplay changing weapons. (Melee: Katanas, light sabers, hamers etc.) 5) Some new passives that activate only when certain characters are together (depends on their friendship/rivalry) 6) New bioms. Some of them might even have special atmosphere or stuff to do (E.g.: Freezing part of the ship that slows everyone down and turning modules off in the coldest rooms if you don't spend dust/interact with heat generator in some rooms.) 7) New monsters, monster families and bosses. It's always fun to slay more different stuff. 8) New dungeon events (like meeting someone who can give you a hand surviving on a floor, elite shopkeeper, hostile survivor or even a pug?) 9) More routes to the core or even different station wings (that are like pods from DotE)
Also, I forgot to note that DotE and Risk of Rain have eaten half of my lifetime and I insanely love these games. The mix of tower defence + roguelike + retro space atmosphere got me stuck in DotE for years. So I hope Endless Dungeon will become another black hole that I'll be sucked into in the future!
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