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The new battle system - Am I the outlier?

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5 hours ago
Jan 24, 2025, 8:08:58 AM

Coming from watching the recording of yesterdays livestream, I am wondering about the new/revised battle system in which "players have full control over their units".


For me the Endless battle system, be it Legends or Space (2), was always unique in the way that you give your units a general strategy and watch them get into the nitty gritty themselves. Be it the more "traditional" way from Legend where you give units general commands and watch the turns unfold, or the more (and still for me slightly obscure) system of battle plans in Space 2, I enjoyed the more distanced role of the player (yadda yadda, the immersive/roleplaying part of high level managing a nation and not being a squad leader commanding individual troops).


I feel that intricate battle systems in games have become "the thing" over the past decade, where every battle needs to be like its own little XCOM turn-based skirmish with as much detail and the highest skill ceiling as possible. I really enjoy games like Age of Wonders 4/Planetfall and the Total War (Warhammer) series (you may argue about how much 4X or wargame they are), but I always get worn out by their battles. For me, they shift the focus too much into the warmongering part and away from other things, that make 4X games great: The exploration and the empire building. In the end I often tend to auto-resolve battles, completely aware that I might get screwed by my own battle-AI.

I know that the battle-AI for Legend did not always make the smartest choice in where to move or who to attack, but that is just part of the game for me. I enjoy a bit of unpredictability. And in a way the detail of the players involvement was up to the player themselvs by choosing how often they want to be asked for their input in these battles.


I am not blind to the forums in general and many comments already made about Legend 2 (in videos or on Steam), where many people "wish for an improved battle system". And it seems the developers are adressing that, giving the players in Legend 2 "full control over their units".


So... bottom line... Am I the outlier for actually enjoying the less involved approach from previous Endless games? Besides the "obvious" reasons (lore/universe, unique factions/theme) that is one of the reasons I like the games so much. Are there more people who enjoy the old battle system?

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5 hours ago
Jan 24, 2025, 8:22:20 AM

And if its not clear, I do not want to criticise or be judgmental about the new game and its systems. I just had a thought while watching the stream. Since so very little is known about the new system I think everything is still possible. I was just asking if other people also enjoyed the "old" system.

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4 hours ago
Jan 24, 2025, 9:18:02 AM

I mean, in all their games you can just use the auto-battler and ignore it. I don't enjoy micromanaging combat in any 4X game, and unless I'm in multiplayer this works fine.

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4 hours ago
Jan 24, 2025, 9:36:50 AM

Yes, I had much the same thought. I do trust them to come up with something great; I think the battle system in Humankind is generally pretty good. And I think at this point it is probably fairly solidly established in the development that individual control is how it will be.  


There is just something about the limitation on the combat in Endless Legend that I think makes it feel unique, of course, but also adds extra layers of strategy. The player is required to think ahead and plan for unknown elements, ie what will happen in the battle between when the orders are given and when they are executed. However, the beauty of it is that this strategic depth is added through the simplicity of the system rather than additional complex player actions or choices. The give-em-another-grenade approach of other games can be fun of course, but I really do think it gets to feel samey.


Perhaps it is possible though to maintain the strategic depth while still giving control over each unit. Keeping initiative as a concept, for example, rather than allowing the player full choice in which order they move and use the units, would make a difference from AOW4 or Humankind. 


So to answer your question, yes there are other people who enjoy the old battle system, but I think we may be the minority.


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3 hours ago
Jan 24, 2025, 10:06:18 AM

I get where you are coming from as I much prefer the old Endless Legend combat to Humankind. Early game you can win "unwinnable" battles through smart orders and use of terrain. Also you are the general giving the orders and as the saying goes "no plan survives first contact with the enemy". In war things will go wrong.


Sadly the combat has always been brought up as the weakest part of the game. So even if I personally would prefer to keep the same system it's pretty clear to me that the vast majority prefers their HOMM3 / AOW 4 / Humankind full control combat. I'd rather see the game succeed and have expansions for the next 10 years so I'm expecting them to change it from the ground up. 


I sincerely hope they keep the depth of the old combat system and the importance of choosing the terrain when you engage. Perhaps there is a way to have some aspects of being the general and giving orders while giving the player (almost) full control? I think an inspiration here could be from the old Close Combat games where your units had morale. If you try to order a suicide charge chances are they would surrender or flee instead. So you give the player control but also the consequence of making poor choices. I assume the Necrophages would be immune to morale loss giving them another edge which is not simply numbers.


Just my two cents.

Updated 3 hours ago.
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