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Tips for Enjoying Endless Legend Multiplayer

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10 years ago
Oct 8, 2014, 10:09:42 PM
Rook you misunderstand my post. You're not playing the game properly if you're waiting 10 turns. You're mistakingly speeding your research up. Notice on Endless difficulty the AI are like 200 score ahead of you? That's not because they cheat (well they might or probably do cheat too, but then that just would suggest they're significantly lacking in more areas than I'm aware of). They just can't do combat at all or defend their regions properly and that's why they seem to lose. I'm terrible at conveying my observations. I apologize.





I DO want a long game, Yes I stated that. But after spending hours trying to create a game that works, I realized that just was not possible. Realizing everyone else wants to play small fast games, I sought to find how to make THAT more engaging. Your fast games lead you to all complain and make you angry. Why do you like that? I'm suggesting a method of playing that allows for actual fast games, that are more interactive (which means playing with people instead of just chatting with them).



Make a game with Huge regions on small world size. It's not very big, but arguably yes that is a matter of preference... though remember smaller regions when battles break out make things rather odd.. I'd personally settle between Normal-Huge. (Huge is what I'd imagine Normal to be, and normal what Tiny would be, but that's just me again maybe)



And trust me when I say I'd love for the "New Player Experience" to be a good one for players who play online. But the game itself promotes the exact opposite, that sucks. A new player won't likely enjoy an online match unless he knows what he's doing, period (how do you do that when you're new?). He will lose. Unless he doesn't mind losing, but most people don't like the idea of being guaranteed a loss. Our opportunity here now is to discover a manageable and overall balanced gameplay that everyone can enjoy given fair grounds instead of trying crank everything up to try to make it as fast and abundant as possible in an effort to speed up the game when in all actuality it just throws the balance of the game insanely off. We then see everyone throwing insults back and forth at what's broken, what's op, what needs a nerf, fix this, fix that.... What? There is a mostly manageable game here that I'm laying out, no one wants to try, and everyone immediately assumes is worse without trying. Fact is most people actually probably leave my games due to networking issues+they're far behind in global score. My friend and I always get desync'd randomly when playing 1v1... Are they waiting 10 turns to make a unit? Probably. Am I? No. When our armies meet, who wins? Me.



That and my friend nor the AI are very good test subjects. I wouldn't mind playing against some decent opponents (Who don't need to rely on gamebreaking tactics and instead are looking for ways to remove them, eg. Ranged units decked out in era4/5 become too powerful or mass manufacturing units and selling them on the market for profit). I've employed so many lame tactics to win other people's games and I don't enjoy it, and I don't know why anyone would? But I suppose I have to accept the facts maybe. lol I just want a balanced game man.



That being said, once again I don't know how Roving Clans and Economic victories come into play here. I see Science/Wonder victory as being a complete broken joke no matter what your settings are, so we just can't enjoy that till there's a fix. That might be true for Economic as well. IF you want those victories, you're removing the ability to have an elimination victory which makes several other factions useless. There's a lot of deciding to be made on factions and map settings. I say, if you're going to have to make factions useless, you might as well minimize that. If it's going to be just Roving Clans, then that's just one fix that needs to be applied compared to 100.
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8 years ago
Nov 19, 2016, 9:50:06 PM

I am personally interested in the "new world" option. i wish we had more flexibility in customizing its implementation. 

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8 years ago
Oct 17, 2016, 5:42:26 PM

I'd love to see any new recommendations that have come with Tempest. Specifically, I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on 2 continents (3 for larger games) instead of defaulting to the Pangaea maps. 

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8 years ago
Oct 15, 2016, 1:49:32 PM

Hi, all!


I want to prepare for MP and have read some topics by Propbuddha and Jojo_Fr about game settings. But they all are too old, especially with new DLC where Devs made sea strong again. 

So what settings are the gold standard for MP now?

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9 years ago
Nov 23, 2015, 7:24:27 PM
Since I realized, that Marathon speed in Civilization game makes it more deep and balanced, I only play on Endless speed in EL smiley: smile (tried normal speed only in first game to be able to compare later). But I play with my friend, and we both ready to give a single game tens of hours. It is much, but it completely worth it smiley: smile
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9 years ago
Nov 23, 2015, 4:36:06 PM
Updated to add the new speed settings added in Forges of Creation...
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10 years ago
May 1, 2015, 3:44:25 PM
I've updated these a little bit to reflect more experience.



I don't think "Small" Region Size adds enough to a multiplayer game to recommend it anymore. It's good if you want more regions, but not good if you want some breathing room at the borders.



Also revised military tips on importance of building military early and maintaining a standing army at home.
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10 years ago
Oct 9, 2014, 1:22:27 AM
Just an FYI - Endless AI cheats. It gets discounts to production and research costs. It isn't "smarter".



Everything is a matter of preference, if these settings work for you and players joining your games, by all means stick with them. All I can say is that I've played dozens of games on Normal Speed and on large maps and they always play out the same way:



  • Everyone pretty much sticks to themselves and builds a bunch of stuff. (a.k.a. "Endlesscraft")
  • You only meet one or two other Empires who are automatically enemies
  • Players see that an opponent, (one that they likely haven't met in game) is way ahead on Score or Military and they quit.
  • Games never actually reach a Victory Condition (or consensus winner) and the leader is playing solo at the end of the game.





My preference is for a multiplayer game that I can enjoy and finish with other players. I'm going to guess that while many players join your games with those settings, very few stay and finish the game. If you have some mid/late game saves that show these settings in interesting games, please post them...
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10 years ago
Oct 6, 2014, 4:24:44 AM

Amplitude has done an amazing job structuring Endless Legend's game play and options for multiplayer. If you're tired of stomping on the AI, multiplayer is the best way to up the challenge.


Here's some recommendations to improve your multiplayer experience:


Make Sure You Have Time to Play


A 3+ player game of Endless Legend is going to take 3 to 6 hours. Following the recommendations below will keep it on the low side of this but even three or four hours is a significant time commitment. If you want to play a game start to finish, make sure your mom/spouse isn't going to call you to dinner anytime soon.


If you don't have time for a full game, try dropping into a public game and taking over an AI for a few turns. Another option is a two-player duel on a tiny map.


I've also created a mod (Battle for Auriga - more info here) with the specific goal of adapting Endless Legend to a multiplayer format that can be finished in under 3 hours.


Fast Speed Only


The "Fast" game speed setting reduces the  cost of items, the  cost of research and thresholds necessary for Economic and Diplomatic victories. It is an absolute must if you plan on completing a game. Considering that turns take 2.5 minutes on average (including overtime for battles), a "Normal" pace game will take at least 150 turns which is roughly 6 hours. Even if you have the stomach, your opponents won't. Fast pacing removes nothing from the game and using the proper map (see below) scales the game appropriately.


Pick the Right Map


The key to a good MP game is having the right map size and region count. If the map is too big, players will be isolated until late in the game. You ideally want to have 3 or 4 regions per player, especially at the higher player counts. Smaller maps also help overall performance.


  • Avoid Continents and Islands maps as the naval game is bare bones in Endless Legend and lots of water adds nothing but isolation to the mix.
  • Set cliffs to "Few" to (hopefully) keep the World Generator from making too many cliff choke-points.
  • Finally, Spread Empire Spawn will ask the World Generator to do its best to spread out the starting locations. However you will start next to an opponent occasionally.

Here's some recommended settings:


All Games
2 Players
3 or 4 Players
5 or 6 Players
7 or 8 Players
  • Temperate Temperature
  • Average Topography
  • One Continent
  • Few Ridges and Cliffs
  • Spread Empire Spawn

  • Tiny World Size
  • 50% Land (Pangea)
  • Expansion Victory Off



  • Small World Size
  • 50% Land (Pangea)



  • Normal World Size
  • 40% Land



  • Normal World Size
  • 50% Land (Pangea)




Play Factions You Are Comfortable With


Endless Legend is unique in the way each of it's factions not only have strengths and weaknesses, but also add faction-specific game play mechanics. Multiplayer is not a good place to learn how to convert villages with the Cultists or figure out the Marketplace using the Roving Clans. Choosing a faction you've played some solo games with will allow you to enjoy the game and be more successful.


Ditch the AIs


Don't be tempted to create a game larger than the number of human players and add AIs to fill the gaps. The current AI is predicable, exploitable and easily defeated. Multiplayer games with a lot of AIs often focus on a race to farm cities, resources and techs from the AI, so leave them out.


Use Timers and Manage Your Time


Waiting for other players is a given with any turn-based multiplayer game. Endless Legend does the best it can to reduce downtime through simultaneous turns but timers are a requirement to keep Jimmy from spending ten minutes customizing his Stalwarts. I recommend a only using an "End Turn Timer" (30 seconds), but other combinations of timers can work to keep everything moving along. Fixed turn length timers are nice for moving the game along quickly, but can become an issue later in the game when you have a lot of cities and armies to manage. It's also very important to set all of the Battle timers (30 seconds each) and set Battle Animation Speed to "Fastest" as manual battles at the default settings are very slow and can extend well beyond the End Turn timer.


Players used to single player pace can have trouble adjusting to timers. Here's a few tips to manage your time.


  • Do important, time-sensitive stuff first on your turn. This means moving armies (especially those in/near danger), setting up empire plan and fill empty queues first.

  • Fill City and Research queues in case you can't adjust them every turn.

  • Delay starting/focusing on battles until the important stuff is done. You can zoom out of battles by clicking outside the battlefield to do other things while the battle is going on. Clicking on the sword icon or within the battlefield zooms you back in.

  • Clicking "End Turn" doesn't mean your turn is over. You can do things while you are waiting for other players to finish their turn. This is a great time to adjust unit designs and upgrade heroes.

Be Prepared For a Different Game


Probably the biggest difference between single player and multiplayer games is in the way the "eXterminate" portion plays. In multiplayer games, you'll learn to appreciate some of the mechanics that are not important in single player because the current AI is not very good at managing its military. Unlike the AI, human opponents will get aggressive early, defend their cities, avoid your archers in tactical battles and adjust their strategy to counter you. Don't play "Endlesscraft" on your home turf, be prepared to fight early and often.


  • Invest in units early in the game so that you don't get caught by a rush. You'll need  and Strategics to build them, so invest in these with early research and construction.

  • Keep your units and heroes upgraded with latest tech and retrofit whenever possible. Remember that Mercenaries and Cultist Converts cannot be upgraded and are outclassed later in the game. Due to army size limits and reinforcement mechanics, high tech units will tear through larger numbers of lower tech units.

  • You should always try to maintain a Defensive army that can compete with your opponent's forces. This army will be used to break sieges and remind opponents that you're not an easy target. When you are not at war they can deal with pesky Minor Faction armies. Keeping this army near boarder cities will ensure they can reinforce a surprise attack.

  • Garrisoning troops in cities is key to stopping an invading opponent from ninja-raiding your cities. Don't overlook City Defense techs that turn your cities into fortresses.

  • With larger armies come more  upkeep, something you barely notice in single-player and winters can hit you hard. Make sure you have enough cash coming in.

  • Don't forget to keep units healthy. Garrisoning units or hanging out near Watchtowers speeds healing significantly.

  • Supremacy (eliminating opponent's capitols and holding your own) is the fastest path to victory. Take extra care defending your capitol and keep an eye out for opportunities to take your opponents' capitols.

  • Don't skimp on map vision, movement speed and roads.

  • Use the Status Screen (F10) to keep an eye on your opponent's progress. As of Shadows release, access to this information will require a Spy in the enemy empire. A sharp spike in Military growth is often followed by an invasion. However, still use high-vision scouts or Spies to determine the exact makeup and stats of opponents' forces.

  • Techs, Empire Plans and Hero Skills that reduce the cost of building units are very powerful when combined. Make sure these abilities are available to you.


Diplomacy beyond the Diplomatic Screen


Whenever three or more people get together, politics come into play. Don't limit your negotiations to the in-game Diplomacy features. Politicking is a fun feature of multiplayer strategy games and you can be sure your opponents are doing it, even if you aren't. Unexpected wars will break out, backs will get stabbed and opponents will ally to tackle stronger empires. Never forget that there can be only one winner...


To whisper chat, click on the empire's icon below the End Turn button or use ...


/w playername typeYourSecretMessageHere


Friends, Groups and Pre-Arranged Games


Building up a network of players is important to be able to play the game more often. If you enjoy a game, send Friend invites your opponents. Join groups (such as the Endless Legend Multiplayer Steam Group) and look out for scheduled games.


Deal With Desyncs


The current version of Endless Legend occasionally puts players' local game out of sync with the host (a "desync"). This requires the host to go back to lobby and restart the game form his copy. Less frequently the game will need to be rolled back a turn or two. Be aware that this may happen and stay in the lobby until the game restarts. If you are the host click the "Resync" button and restart as errors will often follow a game continued in a desynced state.

Updated 8 years ago.
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10 years ago
Oct 8, 2014, 9:56:15 PM
@ Visko Hey are you sure that most people don't leave your games because they get tired of waiting 10 turns to produce a military unit? If you want to sit around all night and day playing one game that's cool but I'm pretty sure that the majority of other players do not want to (at least in multiplayer mode). There may be some balance issues still, but normal speed and huge regions I'm sure is a bad idea for most of the people that play this game in multiplayer and do not want it to take a week to finish a game. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course, at least that is what they tell me anyway, so my opinion is that your recommended settings settings would not be beneficial to new players to multiplayer mode. I think you are wrong, although you did make some good suggestions.
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10 years ago
Oct 8, 2014, 5:54:16 PM
Propbuddha wrote:


Pick the Right Map



The key to a good MP game is having the right map size and region count. If the map is too big, players will be isolated until late in the game. You ideally want to have about 4 regions per player, especially at the higher player counts. Smaller maps also help overall performance.



  • Avoid Continents and Islands maps as the naval game is bare bones in Endless Legend and lots of water adds nothing but isolation to the mix.
  • Small region ensures that it doesn't take too long to get from one place to another. However, this makes keeping the region count low more important. Small region size and high region count will result in a ton of minor faction villages, which will require too much attention.
  • Set cliffs to "Few" to (hopefully) keep the World Generator from making too many cliff choke-points.
  • Finally, Spread Empire Spawn will ask the World Generator to do its best to spread out the starting locations. However you will start next to an opponent occasionally.





Here's some recommended settings:



All Games
2 Players
3 or 4 Players
5 or 6 Players
7 or 8 Players
  • Temperate Temperature
  • Average Topography
  • One Continent
  • Small Region Size
  • Few Ridges and Cliffs
  • Spread Empire Spawn

  • Tiny World Size
  • 50% Land (Pangea)
  • Expansion Victory Off



  • Small World Size
  • 50% Land (Pangea)



  • Normal World Size
  • 40% Land



  • Normal World Size
  • 50% Land (Pangea)









I just don't get your suggestions on these here. Well some of them I do.



In MY experience. Pangea Combat plays out in a rather unbalanced fashion, whereas Choatic+Advanced mode offers opportunity for strategic combat. That and Normal speed appears more balanced in terms of Heroes/Factions at least.



1 Continent always, no sea around edges, and no world wrap with lakes and ridges made to create natural borders makes for the most interesting/balanced gameplay experience. Also keep the world size the same as player size and region size at huge. Region sizes don't seem to make too much of a difference in a lot of cases, but when you do get the bigger regions pieced together, then everyone is allotted around 4-5 regions each which makes for a more balanced game and you're not crossing an abnormal amount of regions. I also think it adds more interesting allotment of resources making the decision of which to colonize next more important. Having the surrounding area thoroughly scouted ahead of time proves to be highly beneficial.



In these games you're FORCED to strike a balance between Research/infrastructure/military/income.



If you focus on Research, you fall behind on the other aspects leaving you wicked vulnerable to an early elimination. (As it should be?)

If you focus on infrastructure, you'll never have a military, also leaving you wicked vulnerable to an early elimination.

If you focus on Military, and your enemies aren't focusing on research/infrastruture, you'll fall behind on other aspects and find you won't even have the Influence to actually conquer or affect anyone directly.

As for Income/Influence, you just try to squeeze that in where you can it seems but often it should be cropped up automatically with certain techs and proper city placement.



A lot of games seem winnable within the second/third Era. Which is nice or not nice I suppose, because that's when the balance of the game becomes completely out of whack causing everyone to erupt in furious complaining on what's broken in what good or bad ways. But someone reaches it and the game basically ends.



  • This is on Normal speed settings around turns 60-100, with terrain being somewhat Chaotic and unpredictable offering numerous strategic advantages... which on their own can break the balance of the fights (especially with AI and autoing), but in Manual make battles significantly more interesting and making the direction of attack a very important factor (which admittedly can be somewhat unpredictable at times and once I even double engaged a battle in one turn where we flipped sides in each battle).
  • You're giving use to items like Higher Ground (when there actually is higher ground to use), improved vision, and faster movement, and leaving off things like iron armor or accessories entirely to make the armies more affordable. Perhaps your Dust income can be utilized to retrofit them afterwards if you got a nice dust anomaly?
  • Finally also, you need Advanced battle mode. Regular battle mode offers too many advantages to ranged units, so the compensation here is the deformation in the terrain and the strategic placement of your units in combat, instead of micromanaging cheap tactics.





You have a small <1 hour game where you actually use multiple armies and a few heroes and have to take careful consideration into which tech to research next. VERY CAREFUL. You should need more than 30 seconds a turn, but there will be a few turns where everyone will likely just hit End turn. There's not always too much to do, but there's always a lot to consider, which can be done even after you hit End turn and they don't.



When it comes to combat, early on, more is better than higher quality. This momentum is important to interact with and maintain otherwise everyone enters the imbalanced state of the game. Also, Broken Lords might be bad Broken in these settings, I'd love to test them, but don't really get the chance (Not sure of Roving Clans?) but it does seem to give Necrophages an actual chance to compete for once too and doesn't make anyone seem too particularly overpowered.



Much faster than your Fast 3-6 hour games? But these games aren't meant for newbies I suppose.





Fast Game settings seem to break the balance of some factions significantly, I'm looking at you Wildwalkers!

Slow Game settings break the functionality of heroes... wicked overpowered governors you got there.



Not to mention stockpiles... They have a lot of work to do on the balancing of everything in this game... but if you want the most balanced lobby, Normal seems greater than Fast. What I'm finding annoying is that I have to argue with people because they're reading things like your guides I'm sure which offer no strategic insight. What do YOU do in these "Fast" 3 hour games? How do they play out?



Most people quit my games because they fall so far behind using their standard strategies, so I always win by default I guess? Not fun, I wish people would catch on. Then again perhaps I'm just not catching on to your settings at all? I haven't managed to find an engaging, winning strategy that makes me feel like I'm actually playing a multiplayer game. Instead it often feels like I'm playing the most recent SimCity.





Most of what I can say is opinion though I suppose. But the results do seem to show faster and more interactive games. I imagine though however if players were more aware of how to play properly, the games themselves could probably go on a lot longer... but then would enter again maybe into an imbalanced state. I don't know. Difficult to say, haven't seen one last long enough yet.







Oh and one important strategic factor that seems to be never talked about... the benefits of intentionally delaying Era advancement. In that +Science is a fundamental hindrance rather than a benefit. Excess +Industry is highly valuable, though less valuable the higher it becomes and it does have a break point often as well, which is what changes in each Era(!!!!). Excess +Dust and +Influence are infinitely valuable, but often difficult to manage alongside everything else under steady conditions. Excess +Science however has an immediate and unclear breakpoint. It's very low, and if you have too much Science your Era will bump before you have the Infrastructure available to maintain steady world progression. What happens is at the end of Era 1, you notice you have 2-3 cities that can produce infantry/buildings/settler/population/dust cheap, and fast. The infantry are weaker than era 2, but once era 2 hits, that 2 turn infantry unit will immediately become an 8-10 turn infantry unit. So if you Advance to Era 2 right now, it will take you 10 turns to get out a single unit. BUT, if you DELAY that advancement, you can pump out 5 units in 10 turns, THEN advance up, and retrofit them. That's if you're playing the way I see people play normally, or you can play the way I play, and maintain a low +Science cap so that you're never hitting that break point and you're never wasting science. You're never advancing too soon. You don't waste time researching pointless +Science techs (if you don't need it that is, but most often you shouldn't) and realize that even if you rush research mill/seed/mint/etc. that you can't even usually build them as fast as you can research them (unless your location really sucks). So why research them all right away? Do seed or mill depending on what you need more of, then do something like search or parley or whatever suits your faction. I also play the Vaulters and somewhat question all their +Science tech, but I find it gives them the added advantage of never needing to research a research tech till Era 3 I think where they get that nice Faction specific one and in the case you start in a zone with no +Science, you can build a Pooblic Libary instead of investing pop into research. I just feel I'm too overpowered as the Vaulters on standard combat settings.







Oh and to be clear, this isn't the game I imagined I would be playing when I purchased Endless Legend. It's just what I ended up discovering the game to be. If I were to make changes or suggestions to this game, they would be in the Long and Endless settings. I'm more so personally interested in long 6-8 hour strategic games that may be saved and reloaded on different days, not small quick sessions. But we get what we get and that's just not possible with Endless Legend, it's far too broken unless everyone wants to agree to not use Heroes and a lot of other ridiculous things... I swear I'm not just senselessly complaining and maybe someone can point me towards a productive Game Balance discussion?
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10 years ago
Oct 6, 2014, 1:28:05 PM
+1 Great advice!

The moderators should make this a sticky on the main forum.

The more I play/learn this game, the more I can see that it seems to have been developed as a multiplayer game with an included main quest line that also works in single player against the AI. For anyone who has not tried multiplayer, I recommend that you give it a try. The game is ten times better when played against opponents that can think for themselves and act or react accordingly. I have been playing with a small group of people that eventually end up making a 4-6 player game, and even though we come across the desync, errors, and crashes it is still great fun. (I am expecting these issues to be resolved in due time) Although, as Propbuddah stated, be prepared for a challenge! BTW backstabs and double teams are great fun! I am also beginning to learn that it takes a lot of friends and double or triple teams to stop TheWeatherMan from winning every game I play with him smiley: smile

Thanks again for the info!

Maybe I will see you for Tuesday Night Fights! gg
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10 years ago
Oct 6, 2014, 1:15:19 PM
Great info..played a couple multi games and I agree with what you have...neeed to work on shrinking the land size a bit like you suggest
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