Changing the AI

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 23, 2014, 6:49:09 PM

You can validate your files in steam to get the vanilla files.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 12, 2014, 6:31:54 AM

I looked at the battle AI. And it's a lot of work as there's a description of weights for each kind of unit and each kind of stance (attack/defence/hold position)

Maybe I'll start for infantry ranged and support. It seems to me they are the most common ones. No ?

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 12, 2014, 2:29:50 PM

After some test, the new values of the defense points is a good idea. It would be a suicide to launch an attack against a city that has more than 400 defense points. You'll have to besiege it before having the chance to enter the city.

I'm wondering if I should up the base defense points of the city center and of each new district.

Militias, with the defense bonus, can help to stay alive for the 6 rounds. After all, they're here for that.

Now the AI uses different kind of units in an army. That's a cool thing to see necrodrones with propager with daemons and driders to support them

JetJaguar

Newcomer

JetJaguar

Newcomer

10 years ago

Oct 12, 2014, 10:54:21 PM

VieuxChat wrote:
I didn't change anything from the speed of the game. If you want I could create a speed even slower than "endless". But I'm not sure I could "balance" it properly.

Anyway, as my changes will help the AI to defend itself, the diplomacy component of the game should have more weight because you "shouldn't" be able to steamroll everyone.

I play in normal speed with a normal difficulty and the game is challenging up to the late mid-game. After that I would have to change the cost of buildings and some techs.

If you want a special speed with special modifiers, just ask and I'll see what I can do (maybe you would like an endless long game, but with the "normal" cost for buildings and unit but with a higher Tech cost)

Thanks for offering, but endless speed is just right for me; just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything about your mod that created a conflict with that speed.

After some early testing, I have to say that your mod has made all the difference. I was steamrolling the AI previously. Now, I just had to restart a game because I was going to get wiped-out! So thanks again.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 13, 2014, 5:02:29 AM

You're welcome

JetJaguar

Newcomer

JetJaguar

Newcomer

10 years ago

Oct 13, 2014, 7:11:06 PM

VieuxChat wrote:
You're welcome

I'm also experimenting with the following changes (made to prevent the player from 'snow-balling'):

The one I'm most concerned about is the "BaseFIDSIPerPopulation" Operation="Subtraction" Value="1". Default per pop is 4 (from city halls) and I've changed it to 3. Basically, all I did was take the penalties the AI receives from 'Newbie' difficulty and applied them to the player. What do you think? Thanks in advance.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 13, 2014, 8:19:37 PM

I think it will render the explorations of cities more important, which is a good thing. Moreover such a malus disappear in the end game. So I think it is a good thing to try.

tyranny12

Newcomer

tyranny12

Newcomer

1 700g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 21, 2014, 9:39:54 PM

Was interested in this, so grabbed a copy, compared it to the latest versions files (1.8), updated the files to match, and gave it go. I was conservative with some of VieuxChat's changes, especially around registry.xml and the tech tweaks, since I'm not sure what has changed between the version that was originally modded and 1.8 and my 1.8 vanilla playthrough showed that some things had been addressed.

35 turns into a Serious game I had a unit of 4 Dust Lords infantry siegeing my second city. Given they had 3 cities to my two, more units, and I was dead last in score, I chalked that up as an AI win.

Might try it on hard next time.

If VieuxChat doesn't mind, happy to share the tweaks - same if he doesn't come around again. My support only will last as long as I pay attention to the game though, so YMMV.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 22, 2014, 6:49:12 AM

No problem

The files aren't "mine", so feel free to share them.

Once the mod section of the game will be done, I'll create a zip file with everything needed.

ripperr

Newcomer

ripperr

Newcomer

6 000g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 23, 2014, 6:13:58 PM

I would be very interested in seeing the integration of VieuxChat AI into 1.0.8. In 1.0.2 it was great fun but unfortunately I did not have the vanilla files in the moment of upgrade so now I am diffing 1.0.8 against the modded files and making some educated guesses. I do not know yet how it will work. No time to test it properly...

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 12, 2014, 6:29:40 AM

I didn't change anything from the speed of the game. If you want I could create a speed even slower than "endless". But I'm not sure I could "balance" it properly.

Anyway, as my changes will help the AI to defend itself, the diplomacy component of the game should have more weight because you "shouldn't" be able to steamroll everyone.

I play in normal speed with a normal difficulty and the game is challenging up to the late mid-game. After that I would have to change the cost of buildings and some techs.

If you want a special speed with special modifiers, just ask and I'll see what I can do (maybe you would like an endless long game, but with the "normal" cost for buildings and unit but with a higher Tech cost)

ripperr

Newcomer

ripperr

Newcomer

6 000g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 23, 2014, 7:00:59 PM

I know that but I do not know how to roll back to 1.0.2 in order to see what were your changes

. Right now on one side I have your modded 1.0.2 and on the other 1.0.8 vanilla. So I have to guess what was upgraded by amplitude in 1.0.2->1.0.8 and what was your modding (especially in registry.xml and tech file). As far as I understand tyranny12 has done the same thing with good effect.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 23, 2014, 7:16:00 PM

The 1.08 did erase my files. So, if you didn't put my mod after the 1.08 you're playing the vanilla game.

You can re-use my mod, it's still valid even if the vanilla Ai has made some progress.

tyranny12

Newcomer

tyranny12

Newcomer

1 700g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 24, 2014, 9:35:36 AM

mod_ImprovedAI.zip

Above is my 1.08 adaptation of VieuxChat's work. Use as you wish.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 24, 2014, 11:17:35 AM

What did you changed ?

tyranny12

Newcomer

tyranny12

Newcomer

1 700g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 24, 2014, 5:48:50 PM

I was in the same situation as ripperr - I wasn't sure if the recent patch had fixed things that you also attempted to fix, and also didn't want to introduce incompatibilities for anything they added. So I diff'd the files between 1.08 and your base mod, then ported all the changes that made sense and didn't appear to have been touched by the devs into a fresh copy of the 1.08 files.

In some cases, I imported your changes in full. In others, I mostly did but, in particular in the commander file, there was a section that the devs had added to that was not in your mod. It was around 3/4s of the way down the file, three sections had been fleshed out by them with more units and a I think there were two new mission categories.

For tech, I imported your increases but reduced them by a magnitude of between 30-60%, with the number approaching 60% near high era techs and 30% near low era techs. This was to ensure the AI did not follow a scripted path owing to the high weight placed upon techs, and was a stylistic choice of mine - I don't know if they would have followed a scripted path, but I was afraid they might. For example, if you increased an era 1 tech from 4 to 30, I would've adjusted it to around 15-20, tech dependent. If you did the same for an era 4 tech, I would've adjusted it to around 8-11.

For registry, I didn't import any of your changes that I had no idea what the value did. For some others where I had a faint clue, I only made a slight increase. For diplo, I didn't cut the timers as much as you, but even then I have noticed my AI sends me more threats and compliments. I did keep your aggression increases, but spotted where they were overexpanding (I think) and tweaked it up to 40% approval so as not to let them screw themselves.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 24, 2014, 6:33:59 PM

It's nice to see you took som etime to look at what I did

Thanks to you

It seems your changes are probably more subtle than mine. I wanted to change thing drastically enough to see the difference ingame.

ronin313

Newcomer

ronin313

Newcomer

11 600g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 26, 2014, 2:40:58 AM

Great job guys

JetJaguar

Newcomer

JetJaguar

Newcomer

10 years ago

Oct 30, 2014, 12:02:29 AM

The new Halloween update won't effect this mod, will it? I played one game (right after 1.08 was released) without this mod and it really made me appreciate just how much more challenging this mod makes EL. especially on the military side of things.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 30, 2014, 6:39:59 AM

You should download my package in the other thread. You'll be able to install it properly (in the my documents\Endless Legend\Community folder) and you'll be able to continue using it even after patches.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 9, 2014, 5:10:10 PM

So, my changes worked a little

Maybe I'll try something "bigger".

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 7, 2014, 3:27:51 PM

Noone played it ? I need some feedback to better tune it.

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

21 300g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 8, 2014, 4:53:13 AM

I think that this is one the biggest problems when it comes to modding forums.. especially when it's as tiny as this one.

Your mod is good step to correct direction and what we really need is AI mod BUT... most active members of this part of forum have been tempering a lot with their files.

That causes problems when it comes to any mods trying to balance AI.

Then again I have been watching all other posts in this part of forums too and have noticed couple things:

1) There just isn't enough people. Most posts in these part of forums don't get over 100-200 views and even less of those gets any really good replies.

2) People are not that interested about what other peoples do. Only difference is that City Defense mod which has now maybe 3 persons.

3) We (as a modders) lack completely vision of what this game really needs. This was one of the things why Endless Space modding did work so well in the beginning. We really did see mistakes in game and we had many great personalities who wanted to fix those.

tl;dr I'm really really really sorry but due to huge amount of changes I have made in core files I'm unable to test any AI mod.

I love the idea that somebody is doing it though and wish that you are succesful and get even couple persons who can help you with to this project. It's highly relevant and needed but it has to be done properly.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 8, 2014, 5:24:30 AM

You're right.

I've just made a new blog entry, hoping it will attract more attention.

Vicarious

Newcomer

Vicarious

Newcomer

33 100g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 8, 2014, 11:16:36 AM

I've played recently ~70 turns with your mod on fast speed as the Necrophages. All I can say now is that the mod makes the AI much more competitive military-wise, thanks to increased number of units in city garrisons.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 8, 2014, 11:56:03 AM

Is the only difference in military ?

I know you're necrophages, so no diplomacy, but I also tried some changes in the diplo part.

Did you saw too a change in their army composition ?

Thanks for trying the mod

DEY123

Old

DEY123

Old

7 300g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 8, 2014, 1:23:58 PM

I will try our mod in the next few days (need to find time to play). I also might try on a bit harder difficulty then normal, but I'l let you know what I find.

DEY123

Old

DEY123

Old

7 300g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 9, 2014, 2:09:53 PM

mod makes them a bt tougher on military..not sure about army compisition and diplo as i don't think i have enough comparison points..all in all it seems to make the ai more competitive

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 9, 2014, 3:43:18 PM

Did you have a harder time to win ?

Vicarious

Newcomer

Vicarious

Newcomer

33 100g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 9, 2014, 4:52:09 PM

VieuxChat wrote:
Is the only difference in military ?

I know you're necrophages, so no diplomacy, but I also tried some changes in the diplo part.

Did you saw too a change in their army composition ?

Thanks for trying the mod

Regarding army composition, the Drakken were spamming armies composed exclusively of Drakkenlings, but the two other factions controlled by the AI (the Vaulters and the Ardent Mages) at some point were blending ranged units with infantry or cavalry.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 1, 2014, 12:53:05 PM

I tried some changes to the AI to make it more powerfull but also more interesting in diplomacy by giving them more personnalities and making them less cheesable (I hope).

But I 'm not a very good player, so I won't see if my changes will really affect the game.

So if some people could try it and give some feedback on how they liked or not the AI.

Here's the way to test it : play in normal, in a map as large as the number of players you want (So a 4 players map if you play with 4 players) and on a pangea map, or two continent but no island.

Every other setting should be set to normal, so that I see how it behaves in "ordinary" conditions.

Thanks for all of those that will try to help

WARNING ! WARNING ! WARNING ! SAVE YOUR FILE BEFORE REPLACING IT !

Here are the files to replace :

AICommanderMissionDefinition.zip

Registry.zip

UNZIP IT THEN PUT IT IN "Public\AI"

EDIT: Made some more tweaks.

EDIT 2 : Made even more tweaks to army composition (they should be a lot more varied and the AI should use a lot more of mercenaries) and added a huge weigth to the technologies of Army Size. And some small tweaks to when the AI should try to expand/acpture/etc.

AICommanderMissionDefinitionV2.zip

RegistryV2.zip

EDIT 3 : Changed a lot more things in the technology tree. AI should research more the luxury and srat resources, unlock the resource and units from the market, and try to get as many militia as they can.

AIParameters[Technology]V2.zip

So if you want the latest changes, take ArmyCompoV2, the TechV2 and registryV2.

EDIT 4 : Wow, It seems I can't stop modding the AI

I changed the defense bonus from the defensive buildings (x 2.5 so the battles should lasts enough to let reinforcement to come. And there's more reasons to siege cities, because +1000 health can be a lot

) and upped the values of militia as the number of new militia you get with those buildings (old : 1 more, now 2 more).

SimulationDescriptors[CityImprovement].zip

SimulationDescriptors[UnitDesign].zip

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

I know nothing. To learn more, come visit us @ eXplorminate.net

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

36 700g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 9, 2014, 5:59:16 PM

Will your AI MOD make it into a release version? Since I am trophy hunting right now, I am loathe to play with any mods or custom factions.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 9, 2014, 6:34:34 PM

I don't think. Even if we are talking with the devs, I think they already have done some changes. I do it to help people that want more challenge and to better understand how the AI work so that I can tweak it better.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 11, 2014, 8:00:51 AM

I've done some more changes. The AI should be more reactive, militarywise.

Just drop the 3 files of the zip (registryV2, armycompositionV2 and AIParameters[Technology]) in the AI folder as said in the first post.

Feel free to give some feedback !

Vicarious

Newcomer

Vicarious

Newcomer

33 100g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 11, 2014, 9:28:28 AM

VieuxChat, AIParameters[Technology].xml you uploaded is binary equal to the default game file with the same name.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 11, 2014, 11:13:52 AM

Thanks

I've put the right file.

DEY123

Old

DEY123

Old

7 300g2g pts

10 years ago

Oct 11, 2014, 5:00:39 PM

on the earlier version (from a day or so ago) I can confirm the AI is keeping units in garrison. Unit composition is varied but only by using default unit and minor faction. Something probably needs to change in how they value the tech advance that unlocks their other units.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 11, 2014, 7:45:55 PM

Ok. I did more changes. I had some chllenge in late-mid game with som ebattles that involoved 12 or 15 units from each side. But mine were a bit too tough from some cheated accessory from the cultist quest -___- That regeneration is insane. Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to steamroll in the end.

I think the AI is aggressive enough now, I'd like to put more incentive on using more the diplomacy options, but I didn't find a way to create the changes I want.

I think I'll try to tinker with the battle AI now... It will be a hard one. I would need some saves where huge battles occur, or battles with a lot of different kind of units.

EDIT: I changed how much the AI want to expand, but in the end it is a bit more weak because it doesn't expand safely. So I think that I'll need to tweak it more. But after some pass on the battle AI and technology choices.

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

10 years ago

Oct 11, 2014, 8:23:15 PM

I've also added a better defense bonus to cities from the buildings that provides some.

I didn't changed the militia values, but changes how much they get at each era. (30% instead of 20% then 60% instead of 40%, etc.)

JetJaguar

Newcomer

JetJaguar

Newcomer

10 years ago

Oct 11, 2014, 9:01:38 PM

Thanks VieuxChat for creating this mod. I'm about to try it for the first time.

One question though: I really like playing on 'endless' speed (even 'slow' feels fast to me). Will your mod still work with 'endless' speed? and thanks again for creating this mod. I'm hoping it will allow me to keep playing, instead of taking a break while waiting for AI improvements. I really, really like this game. I don't want to stop playing.