Heres a nifty idea, its pretty silly, but would see massive use from everyone I'm sure. This kinda pertains to the hero models issue(if that ever gets addressed). What if you could take a picture of your face, of maybe even a friends face, and Utilize an algorithm to layer the face over the racial characteristics of the faction they would be representing.



Could you imagine the love people would have from being able to make themselves into a drakken, ardent mage, cultist etc. It could be just a simple system, nothing elaborate. You see all those picture makers on android, like zombies and stuff, so, why not try something similar.



Thats really simple, and probably a dumb idea. Though if you pulled it off it would be beloved .



Anyway, some musts to keep your game strong.



Scenario Editor

Quest Creator

Model Editor

Full faction creation ability. I'm certain you would get some results worth adding to one of your own expansions.(I know I have a couple)



I'm new to all this, but, I believe this game with its good systems, beautiful engine, and endless possibilities, is worth utilizing. I definitely intend to mod as I have many ideas, and can relearn programming eventually. Just need to get more familiar .

You must make it so!

Thanks for the update Pikou! It's always nice to see developers talking to the community, especially when it comes to modifying their own games!



I only really have one more question regarding modding, but it's a bit sensitive so I'll PM it to you when I figure out how to PM things.

As I said some days ago, thanks again for your involvement to provide feedback.

It's very valuable for us.

We are making progress integrating the workshop to the game and taking in consideration your needs to improve your experience.

I hope we will be able to tell you a bit more in the following weeks.

Cheers,

These are more basic things, but I think might be convenient:



Basic Scripting

Often when fiddling around with things I get the distinct feeling that the changes I make could easily be automated. Some sort of loop that'd let me change all instances of one particular thing with another, say all base attack values for anything classed as an infantry for example, might be useful. This ties in with non-destructive modding, but is not entirely necessary, just occasionally convenient. EL is built in such a way that usually if you want to edit all instances of something you just edit the class of that something and it works, which is really nice.



Mod Prerequisites

When/if it is possible to load multiple mods, someone's bound to create a "common mod tools" mod, which other mods need to run. Or someone will want to tweak someone else's balance mod while still giving full credit to the original modder. Or any other number of things, really. Being able to set other mods as required for a particular mod would be really useful in ensuring that everything runs smoothly and minimises crashes for end-users.



Being able to block loading of designated mods (ie: ones the mod's maker knows to cause conflict) would also be nice.



Modding UI

Some simpler aspects of modding could be set up with a UI without too much difficulty. Like making faction traits, for instance. I don't think it would be too hard to set up an external program that has a few fields for name/description/cost, dropdowns for changed variables and a few preset things to apply to. This sort of thing isn't necessary, and would probably take a lot of effort to get up and nice, but would drastically lower the barriers for entry to modding things, allowing people even without programming ability to add some simple things to the game.



Exporting custom factions

If people had a way of exporting their custom factions built with the in-game faction builder and sharing their name and lore it'd be super cool! It's also a great way to flesh out the steam workshop with mods that everyone can make, use and appreciate without having to delve into the heart of the game.

There are also some things which would help, but aren't quite so important:



Insight into the map

Things like:

• How are trade route paths calculated? Do they have to only go to adjacent regions?
• How are districts placed in the world? What are the rules for exploitation placement?
• How do cultist villages find nearby tiles?
• Does a single faction have to own a region, or can things be tweaked so two empires have buildings in there?
  
  

Insight into the world generator

While we do have a page full of variables, there's no way of determining a whole slew of interesting things. For instance:

• What determines which biomes minor factions have a spawn preference for? Is there a way to bias some minor factions to appear more/less than others, or a way to cap a minor faction to only one region per world?
• How are maps saved, and can they be edited on a tile-by-tile basis, even manually?
• How about ensuring that no start location has a tier 3 strategic resource, or mandating that they have either Glassteel or Titanium?
  
  

Ability to run a once-off global simulation effect on game start

Suppose I wanted to make a quick and dirty mod to, say, half the production cost of all units in the game. It would also be nice to have the tooltip system account for these things, so we'd get a "+50% unit production cost on empire from [ModName]", just like we get all those tooltips from game speed.

This is possible currently by adding an invisible technology to every major empire with the desired effects, but it would be a lot more convenient to have a dedicated place for it, especially due to the destructive modding style listed above: in order to install an invisible technology I'll have to rewrite something important, probably ClassEmpire, and that never ends well.

ZenTractor wrote:


Non-destructive modding loading capabilities

The single most important feature that I think is needed is the ability to add, modify or even remove s within s, without rewriting the entire . ie: non-destructive modding. This is essential for getting multiple mods to play well together.



As a case in point, the MoreHeros mod that Pikou had in the tutorial mods list managed to delete most of EmpireTypeMajor, which broke the game completely, by simply trying to modify one value. If more than one mod currently wants to access EmpireTypeMajor, they each have to completely rewrite the whole thing, which will discard the other mod's changes.



Similarly, Vicarious's Healing Justiceres mod rewrites the whole Sisters of Mercy unit, just to add a single line. If anyone else tries to change this unit afterwards, it just won't work.



I don't know enough about XML to say precisely how to do this, but ideally there would be a few options similar to the "Type=Conversion" line in [modname].xml, that would overwrite, add or replace, depending on which XML file the mod-load script is currently looking at.

I run into this a lot.



A big issue here is simply merging mods with a game update. Everytime EL gets a patch, I need to carefully go through each file and merge it with my mod, often because I've added or modified a single line in the SimulationDescriptor.



I think your own example mods breaking the game is a perfect demonstration of the issue with this.

So after looking into modding to a fair degree of detail now, there are a few features which I think are really important which we don't currently have.



Non-destructive modding loading capabilities

The single most important feature that I think is needed is the ability to add, modify or even remove s within s, without rewriting the entire . ie: non-destructive modding. This is essential for getting multiple mods to play well together.



As a case in point, the MoreHeros mod that Pikou had in the tutorial mods list managed to delete most of EmpireTypeMajor, which broke the game completely, by simply trying to modify one value. If more than one mod currently wants to access EmpireTypeMajor, they each have to completely rewrite the whole thing, which will discard the other mod's changes.



Similarly, Vicarious's Healing Justiceres mod rewrites the whole Sisters of Mercy unit, just to add a single line. If anyone else tries to change this unit afterwards, it just won't work.



I don't know enough about XML to say precisely how to do this, but ideally there would be a few options similar to the "Type=Conversion" line in [modname].xml, that would overwrite, add or replace, depending on which XML file the mod-load script is currently looking at.



Unbind the unit model from the unit name

While it is currently possible to add new units to the game, one has to rewrite the 'worldpawn' scrip in Mapping.xml and add in the following:

[code][/code]

This is really volatile. Such an essential line of code depends very heavily on the naming convention of units, and the line above is only given in the modding tutorial. It could reasonably be set by any modder to something different; for example: MappingCustom instead of CustomMapping, and then it will break all other mods.



Heroes are mapped differently, and have their own model reference, such as: , and hence do not suffer the same problems.



Interestingly, one can define new heroes who use the body, mapping and animation sets from the existing models in the game, as seen in Kaldyr's minor faction heroes mod. They also inherit the defining unit's weapon selections, attributes and traits, which is less than ideal although fixable in some cases.



Ideally, units would be rewritten to have their own body definition reference, but if that isn't possible then a good substitute would be a built-in standard for custom mappings. ie: adding that line of code to the official game release, so that every modder uses the same string references for their units.



Ability to import new models, 3D assets and animations

I think this is actually sort of possible as modding in the game stands, but there are a few things that are needed before I could actually add anything. Namely I need to know:

- the structure of the model folders and how they are laid out

- the format models are stored in and the game can read

- the format that animations are stored in and the game can read

With those things known, it might just be a similar method to adding new 2D assets, as is mentioned in the modding tutorial.

The fact of the matter is, is, that I ADORE the EL engine, and its crunch time for you guys.(you have to see it). I guarantee you that how you handle this will have a huge impact on the future of your game. At the moment, AoW 3 is obviously your primary competition. With the addition of their expansive suite of modding tools. Allowing the steam workshop community(and modding community as a whole) to be involved in the game, is a HUGE coup for them. As I stated, I wholeheartedly believe that your graphical presentation, mechanics, and overall solidity of your game engine(some would argue aside from the combat aspect)to be muuuuch better. You need to enable the scope of modding that AoW 3 now allows, otherwise superior user created content will simply flood AoW3 giving it a healthy chunk of the market as well as a longevity that would be undeserved if it were an actual competition. You could have so much. User generated expansions, New races, or further race customization would be rampant and I couldn't see it possibly being a bad thing, it would really ad a spectacular amount to the game.

A thing which tells you why the game crashed while trying to load your mod would be nice.



(This time it was because I forgot to close a comment bracket.)

If they gave us the ability to create entire new factions, and units/mechanics, they could publish user generated expansions, and I'm sure there would be some.

What I look for in a mod is to add original new content to the game to improve it.



Also adjust through changes in the balance, it is now possible to endless legend and its good thing to be grateful but I think that is not sufficient.



I wish we could create complete factions, new units and especially new original mechanics, new systems of play (Like sea combat, world councils, revolutions.. you know).

Currently I not feel I have many interesting mods Endless Legend, but do not know the reason, if for lack of tools. Or lack of interest. = S



PD: A map editor would be welcome but for me its not a priority.

Hello everyone,



We are currently looking at the possibilities to share mods in a better way by adding a link between the game and the Steam Workshop.

In the same time, we would like to gather thoughts on what could be improved when it comes to modding Endless Legend.



In other words, what is your motivation when you want to mod Endless Legend?

You have to understand there are no promise here, we are looking at more feedback and what is better than asking the modders themselves



Thanks a lot in advance for your answers!

Pikou wrote:
Thanks a lot for all the feedback!

It is very important for us to hear from the modders themselves

We will try to keep you updated as soon as we have some concrete stuff about the modding possibility we will offer.

Cheers,

Glad to hear that. Hope you still have some cool stuff in your bag, Amplitude

Thanks a lot for all the feedback!

It is very important for us to hear from the modders themselves

We will try to keep you updated as soon as we have some concrete stuff about the modding possibility we will offer.

Cheers,

Personally, my motivation is to streamline the game and make it faster to play. Here's a few thing's I've tried to do that I couldn't do...

• Make a World Generator Preset in a mod
• Significantly modify the tech tree by removing an era
• Make a pre-game option to allow the player to set a turn limit
• Count the number of kills a specific empire got outside of the Legendary Deed that does this.
  
  

I didn't specifically try to do these, but I'd be very interested in:

• Make a fixed map
• Putting my mod on Steam Workshop
• Loading two mods at once
• Adding 3D models and effects
  
  

So while ES and EL check the modding boxes, what you can do is pretty limited.

Crixler wrote:
Looking at Civ V mods, some of my favorites were the ones that added entirely new systems and mechanics to the game. I'm not actually sure if this is possible in EL at the moment, I've never really looked too much into it, since that's a bit above my capabilities anyway, but I haven't seen anyone else make anything like that, either. So maybe this is already possible and it's just that no one's bothered to do it. But if it's not possible, I would like to see it become possible.

I tried and wondered for many new systems to add (Politics, Laws, Policies...) and my answer is no, its impossible. Mainly because of the unmoddable UI but also of the lack of possibilities offered :/

I would love to be able to import models and textures. Animations, too. That's the main thing that I know we're for sure lacking right now, that would be a big boon to modding. It would allow for custom heroes to have more unique appearances, it would allow adding new minor factions, or even major factions (though that sounds like a lot of work). I've seen a couple mods that add one handed spears to the game, but they still use the 2 handed spear model and animations. I would love to see these mods one day get proper one handed spear animations. Maybe someone could make a mod that makes the Temple of the Earth's core have its own map model and function as a district, like the Guardians wonders. Even though that would be somewhat pointless, since the game would be over by that point (unless you've got wonder victory turned off, of course).



Looking at Civ V mods, some of my favorites were the ones that added entirely new systems and mechanics to the game. I'm not actually sure if this is possible in EL at the moment, I've never really looked too much into it, since that's a bit above my capabilities anyway, but I haven't seen anyone else make anything like that, either. So maybe this is already possible and it's just that no one's bothered to do it. But if it's not possible, I would like to see it become possible.

I don't believe the number of heroes is actually hard-coded. We can probably add as many heroes as we'd like, but we would be very limited in their appearance, as we have no way of adding additional models. And that unfortunately also means that the graphics and animations break for any modded hero that crosses the range/melee line (e.g. a Vaulter cavalry hero wielding axes), usually resulting in a weapon just lying on the ground because it has no attachment point, or being wielded the wrong way around. The only option to fix that would be to use one of the generic unit models instead, and giving up the unique hero models would be a shame.

I feel strongly enough about this to have created an account just to post.



I think the single biggest thing that EL needs for its modding to thrive is the ability to run multiple mods at once. Many times I want a single particular thing to be varied, like the number of pawns in the units, or the damage of a set of weapons, or what someone can equip, but I can only ever load one of those things at a time. Because of this limitation many modders who started off with a simple concept ended up creating a large mod over the top of their initial tweak, and depreciated support for the basic things.



Some things you have done wonderfully. Your documentation is amazing, and it's really helpful. My only concern here is that it comes on very heavy very quickly. Having information about data structures and pointers is great, but I'd really appreciate a "how to do a basic mod" in plain language as well just to get started, with explanations of what each section of changes does as it comes up.



As with Cat-o-nine-tails above, my principle interest was in modding heroes. I'd love to fill in the gaps in the heros, adding in a infantry and cavalry Vaulters hero, and melee and ranged Ardent Mage heroes and the like, however my interest more or less evaporated when I learned that the number of heroes is hard-coded, and that it's impossible to import new models in. Even simple pallet-swaps to change how people look seems to be impossible.

I agree with Kingsguard: We mod games because we love them, but we feel like there is some aspect that could be improved, some detail to be added, or the potential for a wholly different way to play with the core mechanics of the game.

Before Endless Space and Endless Legend I could never be bothered to mod any game. Then I suddenly started huge modding projects (even if my ES mod died after I ran into mysterious errors I could not manage to fix before life interfered.)

For example: I like the option of designing units in Endless Legend, but the design process feels more like a mathematical exercise in optimization than a strategic decision, so I want different weapons and materials to have radically different capacities.

I like the concept of the empire plan, but I feel it could have a stronger connection to the lore, and effects more interesting than simple stat bonuses.

I like the research system, but I feel it is hampered by badly balanced technologies and many "Must haves."

The three separate areas of the hero skill tree seem like the system was originally more ambitious, and there should be more combinations of class and faction.



As far as useful tools are concerned:

A map/scenario editor: I'm sure the community could come up with many great maps and scenarios. Especially if a script or quest editor was part of the map editor.

The ability to import models: As Kingsguard already pointed out, this could potentially lead to a lot of additional content.

Having capacities call specific animations of the unit: Some of my modding attempts involved capacities that were first strikes or additional attacks, but I could never get the unit to actually play an attack animation. Even if it's possible, I could not figure out how.

Some clear instruction on modding quests: There might be basic instructions for creating quests in the modding manual (I have not yet checked), but quests can be quite complicated constructs, and it would be great to have a better manual about the different triggers and effects.