icarus86 wrote:
That ssounds right to me. The last player who still owns his own capital city wins. In the scenario described by you, you'll lose if you go conquest.

PAN's right: capturing another players capital removes the "MainCity" tag from its simulation object, and you win a supremacy victory if you're the only empire left with a city which still has this tag. So if you lose your capital you can no longer win by supremacy, even if you retake it.



We're not entirely satisfied with the way this functions - doing something about it is on the improve list. It's a long list: Kratorg is unlikely to get bored any time in the next millennium.

And will all those extra planning, you can get in situation when former capitol is either salted or destroyed by minor factions, mercenaries or Cultists.





No wonder Civ5 designers just forced capitols to be indestructible. Makes whole thing a lot of simpler. At least until they added Venice as civilization...

wilbefast wrote:
Hmm... in this case we'd probably need a third one for when your capital is under enemy control, as to you it's not just some captured capital.





We're always willing to make changes that will improve our games :) The trouble is finding the man-months to implement them We'll get there though!

You guys are amazing !!



Just saying, I don't think that we need a third icon. If the game shows me where my capital is, I can also see whether it's under my control or not ...



Hmmm, which gets me thinking. We may need a third icon for a capital which belongs to another faction and has been captured by a third one (meaning that it doesn't belong to its rightful owner anymore).

By the way if last capitol is also last enemy territory you win "elimination, supremacy" victory.





Unfortunately, you get only elimination achievement.

wilbefast wrote:




I'm a little cautious too as the AI currently assumes that it only has one "MainCity" tagged city - if we make the change without taking the necessary precautions it will definitely summon Cthulhu, and nobody wants that

*Raises Hand* I'd like the in-game option to summon Cthulhu please!

icarus86 wrote:
If I may add my opinion to the points you mentioned : I'd go with re-capturing my *own* capital and I'd propose two icons, one for my own capital and one for any other empire's capital ...

Hmm... in this case we'd probably need a third one for when your capital is under enemy control, as to you it's not just some captured capital.

icarus86 wrote:
Again, I'm really happy that you're willing to have a look at this and perhaps address it in the future ^^

We're always willing to make changes that will improve our games :) The trouble is finding the man-months to implement them We'll get there though!

Like icarus86 wrote, it would be the easiest and most logical way to solve it. Thumbs up.

wilbefast wrote:
Well there's some question of exactly how this would work. Would you need your own capital back or would anybody's capital suffice? Should we keep the crown icons after capture to remind players that a city containing a palace counts towards the supremacy victory? Should your own capital look slightly different from other capitals and/or function slightly differently? Currently when a capital is captured the MainCity tag is removed but the "Palace" city improvement remains (unless the city was Forgotten or BL, in which case their special palace is replaced with a normal palace... unless you are Forgotten or BL yourself - it's complicated :P )



I'm a little cautious too as the AI currently assumes that it only has one "MainCity" tagged city - if we make the change without taking the necessary precautions it will definitely summon Cthulhu, and nobody wants that

Thank you for the explanation, that definitely makes sense ...



If I may add my opinion to the points you mentioned : I'd go with re-capturing my *own* capital and I'd propose two icons, one for my own capital and one for any other empire's capital ...



Again, I'm really happy that you're willing to have a look at this and perhaps address it in the future ^^

icarus86 wrote:
Great !, this means that ... sometime in the future, it would be possible for us to avoid losing the game by re-taking our capital back ? Or are you thinking about another mechanic ? Or is it to soon to ask ? ^^

Well there's some question of exactly how this would work. Would you need your own capital back or would anybody's capital suffice? Should we keep the crown icons after capture to remind players that a city containing a palace counts towards the supremacy victory? Should your own capital look slightly different from other capitals and/or function slightly differently? Currently when a capital is captured the MainCity tag is removed but the "Palace" city improvement remains (unless the city was Forgotten or BL, in which case their special palace is replaced with a normal palace... unless you are Forgotten or BL yourself - it's complicated :P )



I'm a little cautious too as the AI currently assumes that it only has one "MainCity" tagged city - if we make the change without taking the necessary precautions it will definitely summon Cthulhu, and nobody wants that

player1 wrote:
Hmm...

What would happen if two last factions that have thier own capital would lose it in the same turn.



Would anyone win, or would game just continue? Thus opening chance for someone to win by elimination...

You must control at least one capital to win by Supremacy - if there are no capitals left (remember that currently capturing a capital "destroys" it) then you'll have to win by elimination instead.

Hmm...

What would happen if two last factions that have thier own capital would lose it in the same turn.



Would anyone win, or would game just continue? Thus opening chance for someone to win by elimination...

wilbefast wrote:


We're not entirely satisfied with the way this functions - doing something about it is on the improve list. It's a long list: Kratorg is unlikely to get bored any time in the next millennium.

Great !, this means that ... sometime in the future, it would be possible for us to avoid losing the game by re-taking our capital back ? Or are you thinking about another mechanic ? Or is it to soon to ask ? ^^

So, maybe I'm being dumb here but:



Isn't domination victory (conquer all the capitals) a subset of the elimination/annihilation victory (eliminate all rivals)?



Another way to put it is: isn't elimination victory a domination victory anyways? Is there something I'm not getting or did I misunderstood/misread the victory types?



Thanks and much love <3

player1 wrote:
Sorry for bumping.



But just trying to get reasoning here.



If your own faction lost capital once, then does this mean it is very dangerous to go to conquest.



The moment just one of the remaining factions is left with its own capital, even if you are the one doing conquest of other capitols, that faction will automatically win.



Is that correct?

That ssounds right to me. The last player who still owns his own capital city wins. In the scenario described by you, you'll lose if you go conquest.

Sorry for bumping.



But just trying to get reasoning here.



If your own faction lost capital once, then does this mean it is very dangerous to go to conquest.



The moment just one of the remaining factions is left with its own capital, even if you are the one doing conquest of other capitols, that faction will automatically win.



Is that correct?

myrec wrote:
And there is a loophole in domination victory too. I already reported, did not get reply.

As you are getting capitals of enemies, they are loosing "capital" tag. So basically you are reducing number of capitals in existence until your is the last one standing. So for example when you get all except one capitals. And then you lose your own. The last remaining faction with capital would win immediately.

I think this it's working as intended... many games do the same thing. If you conquest all the other capitals, those capitals are now part of your empire... and your empire has just one capital. The conditions isin't "who conquest more capitals wins", but "the last empire that still own its capital wins".

And there is a loophole in domination victory too. I already reported, did not get reply.

As you are getting capitals of enemies, they are loosing "capital" tag. So basically you are reducing number of capitals in existence until your is the last one standing. So for example when you get all except one capitals. And then you lose your own. The last remaining faction with capital would win immediately.

Nosferatiel wrote:
What happens, if a player razes his own capital (is that even possible?), before the enemy gets to siege and/or capture it? Is a new capital defined or can one use that as a loophole and try to go for a different kind of victory condition, buying time, this way?

I was thinking about it this way as well. You can raze your capital (even if it's your last city) and you get a settler for doing that, but I don't know if you can do it while under siege. I don't know exactly how the razing game works, so will have to test.



What myrec says, while true, it's kinda odd. It's correct that you can deactivate each one individually, but I think if that was the design reason you shouldn't be able to disable the elimination victory, I guess?

Nosferatiel wrote:
What happens, if a player razes his own capital (is that even possible?), before the enemy gets to siege and/or capture it? Is a new capital defined or can one use that as a loophole and try to go for a different kind of victory condition, buying time, this way?

From my experience, if a capital city is destroyed then it counts as it was never there to begin with for the purpose of domination victory. If anything, it makes this victory type easier for all players.



I might be wrong though or things may have changed so someone please confirm this.

What happens, if a player razes his own capital (is that even possible?), before the enemy gets to siege and/or capture it? Is a new capital defined or can one use that as a loophole and try to go for a different kind of victory condition, buying time, this way?

SpaceTroll wrote:
you can own all existing capitals, without eliminating all players



you can win by owning 75% of the worlds regions, by owning all non razed capitals, or by killing everyone.



but owning a capital is not enough to kill a player.

You don't get it. He said "It's not possible to kill everyone without owning all capitals."

So Elimination victory imply, that you already have all capitals, and won by domination.