Did you notice the xp from the retreat? I have been getting a lot more xp from being in combat and them retreating than killing the whole army.

Caotico09 wrote:
In the screenshot, it shows the AI retreating, is the AI allowed to retreat from a siege?

Hmm... this may be an unrelated issue, as the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't...



This has been a very productive bug hunt

Speusippus wrote:
Same here. Don't get me so excited over nothing icarus86!

Really sorry guys. I was certain that everything was discounted for the first 24hours

Must.ve been all the hype ... I.ll be more careful in the future.

Have just played one game so far, but just the new quests that I triggered already looked really refreshing, creative. I could feel a difference in the daemon´s production queue having only one village. The last player left the turn my Gios got ready, so i didnt get any action there ^^



Gotta say I loved the changes to defense. Cities look sturdier with basic defensive buildings, the early item against minor faction units is nice.



I liked what I saw of the faction specific changes, but I still want to play a lot of roving clans to see what really happens there.



So, this is my thank you, too. I haven´t known you amplitude for long, but talk about consistency, uh...

I can't play much around this time, but I did start a game just to play around a bit and I got one of the new Gauran quests that has a hero go one on one with a Gauran. That's awesome! I thought the new quests would be more about new lore, I had not expected refreshing gameplay.



And the Forgotten +10 dust on the memorial already seems like a very good decision.



I can only gauge how effective the new updates are once I play a few full games, but from what I see so far I am going to thank you profusely Amplitude!



(PS. the Forgotten music when you first meet them is still the RC's theme. Not a biggie, but it would be nice if it is fixed at some point)

Thank you ! opulation:



Especially about all the balance things (even if it is far to be enough ^^).

Slashman wrote:
If it has truly improved the AI even a little noticeable bit, then I'm happy to give the game a try again.

I'd be interested in your feedback on the new AI, since you were there at its inception and participated a lot in the discussions around how it could be improved! Let us know when you've given it a try



We really hope you're satisfied with it

Jojo_Fr wrote:
Thank you ! opulation:



Especially about all the balance things (even if it is far to be enough ^^).

Cheers - and Kaboomer has seen you're notes on the topic, just so you know.

BPrado wrote:
So, this is my thank you, too. I haven´t known you amplitude for long, but talk about consistency, uh...

Thanks BPrado

KnightofPhoenix wrote:


(PS. the Forgotten music when you first meet them is still the RC's theme. Not a biggie, but it would be nice if it is fixed at some point)

Hmm... darn... okay, looks like we need to (re)open a bug report...

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
I can't play much around this time, but I did start a game just to play around a bit and I got one of the new Gauran quests that has a hero go one on one with a Gauran. That's awesome! I thought the new quests would be more about new lore, I had not expected refreshing gameplay.

lol

KnightofPhoenix wrote:


I can only gauge how effective the new updates are once I play a few full games, but from what I see so far I am going to thank you profusely Amplitude!

Let us know

The new free update came as a surprice for me. I already decided to buy the 2 expansions on the steam winter sale next month. Hoping to get 25/50% off.

But since a lot of work has been done to improve the game for free. I`ll spend a few extra euro`s to play the game right now with all the content.



As someone who likes fantasy art and paints reguarly. I must say i really like the art style and feel of the game.

rohirrimelf wrote:
Hoping to get 25/50% off.

The game and all expansions are 25% off right now, AFAIK. Steam offer lasts until Monday.

not on my account. The game and first 2 expansions are full price right now. The latest 2 dlc packages are 25% off till the 26th.

Same here. Don't get me so excited over nothing icarus86!

What's up with the map sound effects? They are ramped WAY UP now.

I've just finished a Drakken game, on serious with 8 players on a huge map and I won the game diplomatically without being at war once (didn't get the achievement though because I was playing with the extended colors mod D: ). I recognize that this one game, with these particular settings, does not illuminate much on the state of the game now, but there are a few things I was able to take note of:



A. The Cultist AI is much better now. They actually convert villages! Now again, since the map was huge there was no living space pressures and so a lesser risk of war, but nonetheless the Cultist AI was not bad. Still the weakest faction in terms of score throughout the game, but better than before. Although I have noticed that they did not recruit heroes and kept converted MF in their villages, apparently neither selling them or deploying them in their armies. I understand though that a Cultist AI is difficult to program considering how vastly different it is from the other factions and I applaud the improvement that they've received now. Perhaps they can become even better in the future.



B. The AI seems more interested in diplomacy now and is more reasonable about it. Although it is true that a huge map with less living space pressure is not perfectly representative, I still had AI make peace and then ally with one another while being adjacent. Indeed, I think the Wild Walker allied with the Ardent Mage in anticipation of a showdown with his neighbor on the other side, the Broken Lord, with whom he eventually fought. This seems to show that diplomacy can still happen while being adjacent and that the AI does pursue diplomatic options. In addition, the AI is more interested in diplomacy and there is nothing too glaring about dealing with them (they still over value things like emeralds but not ridiculously so). The weirdest thing the AI did diplomatically was break a peace treaty with me, only for them to be greatly in favor of it being reestablished if I propose it on the very same turn. In fact, I got extra resources / tech from the AI valuing peace so much that they want to break it just to experience me proposing it again...



C. Army composition seems to have improved. Although I have not participated in any wars, I have observed the AI fighting around and most of the time, the army composition is sound. I still notice the occasional 3 drider stack the Vaulters had walking around, but for the most part armies were well designed.



D. Ardent Mages actually use pillars. Roving Clans were actually advancing towards economic victory (still far away but they had the best economy in the game). And they don't spam market ban for no reason! The Vaulters got close to a scientific victory sooner than usual. The Broken Lords AI plays better than before, although they were outclassed by the Wild Walkers (but they were still putting up a respectable fight). Necrophage had a very bad early game, only to explode in mid and late game, as is appropriate (had to convince 3 AIs to fight it).



E. AI in tactical battles on the other hand seems a bit dorky at times, in some ways acting weirder than before. I had the AI make weird and very sub-optimal decisions in battle, from things like avoiding the high ground and deciding to strike from lower ground, to taking a longer route to reach a target and missing an entire turn. And the most glaring problem I saw was the AI when it comes to healers. If I do not give orders to my healer or if the target I set for it dies before its turn, instead of having it automatically heal a unit in its range, it decides to heal itself even when it is at full hp! In that, it is definitely worse than before. Perhaps a tiny error in coding? Now healers have become a lot more dependent on micromanagement which is a bit annoying.



F. Prices seem to fluctuate a bit more in markets now, which is probably due to the AI using it more. That is a great step towards having a more dynamic market.



G. Cool new items from what I saw, except one which I disagree with: ghost force. It grants invisibility to a whole army, which used to be the Forgotten's specialty and appeal as hired heroes. I don't even want to imagine Tarlok with an all flying stealth stack. I have already set the rigid policy of never using that item. But that is not really a complaint as far as I am concerned, as it's easy to avoid for me who plays single player exclusively. It might cause problems in MP, but I will let the experts be the judge of that (I just have to express my disapproval as a fan of the Forgotten who should remain unique special snow flakes).



H. The new Lost Tales quests are awesome! I have not discovered all of them, but the ones I've seen so far were fun from the point of view of both lore and to my surprise gameplay. From one on one duels with a gauran, to sending a settler to help Ceratans retrieve their eggs and heal their wounded, to picking between the Hurnas and the Tetike which leads to different rewards and lore exposition...etc. They were quite fun and they add a lot to immersion. They make Auriga feel more alive. And I am convinced some of them hint at Endless Space 2 (what do the Eyeless worship, you sneaky people you? Tetike worship dust eh?...).



I. The new soundtrack is beautiful, in particular "glassteel."



J. Usanna the Bolt. Really Amplitude? I love you, but sometimes I hate you.



My first impression so far, while limited, is quite positive and very much still in love with the setting you've created and continue to enrich and refine. I am looking forward to playing a more pro-active and less isolated playthrough now, with the Roving Clans, sometime in the near future. I will provide more indepth feedback then!

I just wanted to quickly say that I am overwhelmed by the huge patch notes for this latest update. I read through them but I likely missed a few awesome things in there somewhere.



Anyway, to the point of my post.



I made an earlier post (a few months ago) stating that I would not be buying any expansion content or DLC for EL until the AI was addressed in a serious way. I was hoping for a couple basic AI fixes at best.



I honestly did not expect that Amplitude would not only open a new thread for serious player feedback and discussion on AI, but that they would further hire on new staff/programmers to address the issue.



I"m about to hit the buy button on the cart full of all DLC so I just wanted to let you know I'm holding up my end of the bargain and trusting that the new update lives up to my expectations. If it has truly improved the AI even a little noticeable bit, then I'm happy to give the game a try again.



Thank you to the devs for going above and beyond and interacting so honestly with us, the players.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
I've just finished a Drakken game, on serious with 8 players on a huge map and I won the game diplomatically without being at war once (didn't get the achievement though because I was playing with the extended colors mod D: ). I recognize that this one game, with these particular settings, does not illuminate much on the state of the game now, but there are a few things I was able to take note of.....

You should copy paste that onto the AI feedback page.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:


A. The Cultist AI is much better now. They actually convert villages! Now again, since the map was huge there was no living space pressures and so a lesser risk of war, but nonetheless the Cultist AI was not bad. Still the weakest faction in terms of score throughout the game, but better than before. Although I have noticed that they did not recruit heroes and kept converted MF in their villages, apparently neither selling them or deploying them in their armies. I understand though that a Cultist AI is difficult to program considering how vastly different it is from the other factions and I applaud the improvement that they've received now. Perhaps they can become even better in the future.

They're a tricky faction for the AI to play because they're so unlike all the others. They did get some attention during the update though - we have a few Cultist fans amongst our VIPs :P

KnightofPhoenix wrote:


they still over value things like emeralds but not ridiculously so

The evaluation of strategic and luxury resources is now done by converting them to dust at market value, so if emeralds are worth a lot it probably means that their price is high on the market. If this is not the case please send a save-game so we can check this out.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:


The weirdest thing the AI did diplomatically was break a peace treaty with me, only for them to be greatly in favor of it being reestablished if I propose it on the very same turn.

Likewise this is something we need a save-game to look into.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:


E. AI in tactical battles on the other hand seems a bit dorky at times, in some ways acting weirder than before. I had the AI make weird and very sub-optimal decisions in battle, from things like avoiding the high ground and deciding to strike from lower ground, to taking a longer route to reach a target and missing an entire turn. And the most glaring problem I saw was the AI when it comes to healers. If I do not give orders to my healer or if the target I set for it dies before its turn, instead of having it automatically heal a unit in its range, it decides to heal itself even when it is at full hp! In that, it is definitely worse than before. Perhaps a tiny error in coding? Now healers have become a lot more dependent on micromanagement which is a bit annoying.

I'll look into the issue with healers. Any specific examples of strange behaviour would be much appreciated!

KnightofPhoenix wrote:


F. Prices seem to fluctuate a bit more in markets now, which is probably due to the AI using it more.

Yeah, they sell a lot more resources than they used to

KnightofPhoenix wrote:


F. Usanna the Bolt. Really Amplitude? I love you, but sometimes I hate you.

There's an Epic Lute too

I'm still on my first game. Going a bit slowly because I'm recovering from a repetitive stress injury (pesky ergonomics).



It's after turn 100 and I'm making saves as I go.



I have 2 continents and a 6 player game. I'm Broken Lords against Vaulters, Necrophages, Cultists, Ardent Mages and Drakken.



I share a continent with Necrophages and Vaulters. I sit in the middle with Vaulters on top and Necros near bottom.



Our borders are bumping up against each other. The Vaulters closed their borders to me and I did the same. Same situation with Necros. What is weird to me is that even when the Necros were insulting my military strength, they didn't attack. This was even though I had earlier killed one of their units in neutral territory, insulted them and closed my borders. AFAIK they were not at war with the Vaulters so I have no idea why they wouldn't attack. They don't really gain anything from peace right? They have been leading in military for many turns. It took a drop in the most recent turns, but they should have been able to take out my poorly defended border region no problem.



I still think there is a problem with water. I generally don't make maps with multiple continents because I find the AI is not very enthusiastic about exploring. I'm kind of the same as I am only now making my way over to the other continent.



Diplomatically, there has not been much happening in my game. The exception being the Drakken who offered peace and then shared vision. Neither Ardent Mages, Drakken nor Cultists have appeared on my continent. I actually think the Cultists are stuck on an island. The Drakken have the location or at least were able to see it at one point.



Since it is still just turn 100 on a normal game, I'm going to give it a bit more and hope interesting things happen later on. Currently not terribly exciting and I'm just pursuing empire quests. At the very least, everyone's overall scores are about on par with me leading due to dust. The Necros were ahead earlier in the game though.



I'm most concerned that I'm seeing conflict-averse Necros. Unless something monumental was happening in their empire, I can't think of a good reason for them to not have gone to war with me...or the Vaulters for the matter.

Slashman wrote:
Our borders are bumping up against each other. The Vaulters closed their borders to me and I did the same. Same situation with Necros. What is weird to me is that even when the Necros were insulting my military strength, they didn't attack. This was even though I had earlier killed one of their units in neutral territory, insulted them and closed my borders. AFAIK they were not at war with the Vaulters so I have no idea why they wouldn't attack. They don't really gain anything from peace right? They have been leading in military for many turns. It took a drop in the most recent turns, but they should have been able to take out my poorly defended border region no problem.

Slashman wrote:


I'm most concerned that I'm seeing conflict-averse Necros. Unless something monumental was happening in their empire, I can't think of a good reason for them to not have gone to war with me...or the Vaulters for the matter.

I've learned not to second-guess the AI: either it has a good reason for doing what it's doing or it's a bug. In either case we need a save

Slashman wrote:


I still think there is a problem with water. I generally don't make maps with multiple continents because I find the AI is not very enthusiastic about exploring. I'm kind of the same as I am only now making my way over to the other continent.

Water should be a lot better than before - previously the AI would research ships essentially based on a schedule/build-order, whereas now they'll unlock them based on whether there are resources or other empires on other continents. Whether they use ships to expand is another topic.

OK I'm leaving a link for all my saves up to this point. My game is at turn 111. Hope this helps.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/37qraecrl17ghq2/Broken%20Lords%20-%20Saves.zip?dl=0

Slashman wrote:
OK I'm leaving a link for all my saves up to this point. My game is at turn 111. Hope this helps.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/37qraecrl17ghq2/Broken%20Lords%20-%20Saves.zip?dl=0

Great, thanks!



Something that might make things easier: you can actually attach saves directly to your posts, without going through Dropbox or Google Drive or what have you. It's this button here:





For others reading - here's the save reuploaded, in case the Dropbox link gets broken:



Broken Lords - Saves.zip