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Timeline surrounding Endless Legend: an attempt

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8 years ago
Dec 19, 2016, 3:43:24 PM

TheTakenKing wrote

though it's possible the Fomorians are from before the Virtual-Concrete split.

KnightofPhoenix wrote

I think the Endless used heavy cybernetics, which we can observe on the Fomorians, to separate them from the Morgawr collective mind.

Interesting)) I'm beginning to believe that proto-Fomorians were cyborg servants of pre-shism Endless (either developed or "acquired"). Aurigan Concretes needed somebody to imprison Morgawr, so they modified their faction into Fomorians-proper either by mimicking, or by splicing Morgawr (though latter for me is inlikely - Fomorian society behaves markedly different) or just used existing aquatic blueprints. Virtuals needed bioweapon, so they spliced some nasty bugs into theirs and released resulting Cravers into the galaxy. And I personally think that those "nasty bugs" could be in fact Necrophages (so resulting Cravers got characteristic hunger, hive-mind and double-hands of He-Who-Meddles). Latter comes with side benefit that Cravers could utilize Endless infrastructure of attacked planets to its fullest as descendants of their "utility-cyborgs".


As for BL-Ended connections... that depends on who exactly Ended are. Are they Concrete survivors of Virtual attack, that got bombed into Virtualization? Or some Virtual contingent which was targeted by anti-virtual viruses or weapon, which recombined them into current form with mere shreds of their previous memories\personalities? Drakken narrative suggest that Kehangana stumbled on some Ended and they forsibly rewrote her personality into original worshipful path. And Drakken it seems worship Concretes. If Ended are former Concretes, than they could be resentful of Virtualization and that's why while they gave BL needed tech in dire circumstances, BL began to see it as curse and nessesary evil, rather than fully emrace it as Vodyanis did. If they were Virtuals... they could just unknowingly continue digital crusade of their ancestors, and forcefully convert some Rootstocks (who were not happy). Either way, come to think of it, art for Ended faction indeed displays a BL hero meeting with giant Ended.


As for "Rootstocks"... again, I think that thay could be brought to Auriga by Concretes as "samples" for their new wonderful lab-world.


Also - were there one Opbot or several? Cause his memories from Vaulter narrative (as a stressed surgeon on crashed "ark of peace and refinement") are somewhat different from "imprisoned trigger happy knife-nut from penal convoy" from DotE. Though he could just have glitchy memory)).



Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Dec 15, 2016, 12:21:12 PM

Great discussions there!


Regarding the Fomorians, I personally believe they are the farthest the Endless reached while experimenting on Morgawr.  If you look at their heads as well as the tentacles things at their back, you can see a resemblance to Morgawr.


I think the Endless used heavy cybernetics, which we can observe on the Fomorians, to separate them from the Morgawr collective mind.  But they were still deemed a failed experiment so they were used to keep Morgawr imprisoned. 

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8 years ago
Dec 9, 2016, 1:08:41 AM
Snerrir wrote:

Strange, it finally occured to me that Fomorians share some similarities with ES2 Cravers - boxy, triangular metallic heads, patches of "exposed" muscles, mention of being "created" rather than born... can it be that they have their origin in the same project?


And, looking on Vodyanis - seems to me, that ancient Broken Lords indeed stumbled on the similar cache of Virtualization tech, as did folks on Tchinomy... only aurigan Cloth is way more makeshift.


As for humans on Auriga, I still support the idea of several waves of colonization (OK, without Earth :-P)- UE mentions of Mezari suggest widespread nomadic/colonizing culture. It can be that several clans in fact found on their sensors a promising vibrant wolrd full of life readings and dust signatures... only to be gunned down by Endless kill-sats on arrival. And only the latest arrivals retained their Sci-Fi culture and looks.

Good point! I remember thinking that something was off about the Fomorians when I first saw a picture of them in-game, then realizing they looked like Cravers but behaved very differently. They were probably both derived from the same experimental stock, though it's possible the Fomorians are from before the Virtual-Concrete split.


Vodyani vs. Broken Lords - interesting idea. Virtualization provides the best explanation for the current state of the Broken Lords - but how, then, do they relate to the Ended minor faction, which are most likely fallen Virtual Endless? Was it through the Ended that the BL got Virtualized? 


I think the timeline for human settlement on Auriga is this:


Rootstock humans - become proto-Broken Lords

Ardent Mages and Roving Clans split off from Broken Lords

BL later become Virtualized

Original Mezari crash on Auriga, become Vaulters

Vaulters create and then exile the Forgotten

Another Mezari diaspora arrives on Auriga nearer to the start of the EL in-game narrative


*Somewhere, somehow, the Wild Walkers develop. I'm a fan of them starting off human, potentially the same rootstock as BL came from, and then becoming genetically distinct as they develope animalistic traits from Sharing with the wildlife.

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8 years ago
Dec 5, 2016, 10:08:53 PM

The time... could me more of a common thing. As in - someone invetend how to divide time and name it and it got asimilated by others. Though... who knows?

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9 years ago
Jan 31, 2016, 4:32:04 AM
I just had a chance to read through this. I wanted to say that I appreciate you and your energy tremendously, Knight. You are such a pleasure.



As to the writing and the history, it's really, really cool to see it written out like that. I know some of it is your creativity and speculation, but I really enjoyed it and I picked up some very interesting new info (and had some fun thoughts).



Thank you! <3
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9 years ago
Feb 12, 2016, 11:50:27 AM
SpaceVC wrote:
Where is Slowhands when we need him? smiley: smile




Eating popcorn and watching the fireworks smiley: smile
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9 years ago
Feb 12, 2016, 10:56:59 AM
We are eager.







Also, if these are supposed to represent "the whispering galleries" which have always held the memories of the Drakken....why are there wingless drakkenlings represented in them when the faction quest portrays them as a new and weird artificial breed?



Is it possible that the Drakken were in fact never winged, and were "lifted up" by the Endless both figuratively and literally?
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9 years ago
Feb 12, 2016, 10:28:19 AM
I sent this topic to Jeff, so that he may come sprinkle hints on your lore wounds and make them itch and burn even more. smiley: stickouttongue
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9 years ago
Feb 10, 2016, 3:32:26 PM
While I think the mask comparison might be a bit of a stretch, I'm just now noticing that their vests and pants have the same circle patterns found on Broken Lords armor, Vaulters armor, and Endless ruins.

Intriguing.
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9 years ago
Feb 9, 2016, 6:27:45 PM
KnightofPhoenix wrote:


I also think the fact that the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages are the best parallels to the Concretes and Virtuals respectively is not a coincidence either. It does seem to suggest that the "humans" of Auriga are tightly linked with the Endless, be it a very successful experiment (including splicing between Endless and humans), or actual descendants.




Thinking more about that, I remembered the Dorgeshi.







Their mask is also quite similar to the Endless. The Dorgeshi are a Roving Clans off shoot (most likely later than the Ardent Mages).



It could be just an artistic and aesthetic choice, but between them, the Roving Clans, the Ardent Mages, and the Broken Lords, there is just too many links, aesthetically and thematically, between the Endless and "Auriga humans."
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9 years ago
Feb 1, 2016, 8:32:16 PM
I have yet to see the Sky Keeper! That's awesome. Well done Amplitude smiley: smile



Now that I am exploring Forgotten lore in more depth, I find it interesting how seemingly communal and spiritual they are. It tends to be rare to portray an espionage and shadowy faction without having it be very individualistic and full of backstabbing. While that element is certainly there, there is also a sense of solidarity you would expect from a group of people that were cast out and forced to survive in the harshest of environments.



It is also interesting to note that their "science phobia" does not translate into a hatred of knowledge or ignorance as it may have been portrayed elsewhere. Rather, the Forgotten seem quite keen on acquiring knowledge and on studying their environment meticulously (their winter prediction methods, for instance, are entirely based on study and observation of a type of animal that displays a certain behaviour when winter is close).



I find it a multi-faceted portrayal to a faction that is already, conceptually, extremely cool.
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9 years ago
Jan 31, 2016, 8:17:25 PM
Haha! Yeah, there's the lesbian couple and there's also even a trans character (the Sky Keeper one). I thought that was really progressive of them. I'm not sure how many other characters there are (because I haven't read through every biography) that break the standard "norm" but it's really fun and refreshing and awesome. <3
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9 years ago
Jan 31, 2016, 6:23:13 PM
lilyophelia wrote:
Actually, it's really neat because if you read the character bios, there are actually a lot of different nonconventional stories represented there, especially among the Forgotten.



I was very proud of Amplitude when I saw that. <3




The assassin that couldn't kill her wild walker lover?

I told my fiancee about that yesterday and we decided to ship lesbian assassin / dekari hard.
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9 years ago
Jan 31, 2016, 6:02:47 PM
Actually, it's really neat because if you read the character bios, there are actually a lot of different nonconventional stories represented there, especially among the Forgotten.



I was very proud of Amplitude when I saw that. <3
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9 years ago
Jan 31, 2016, 4:03:41 PM
Thank you Lily ^^

Do share your fun thoughts when you have the time! The Endless setting is very rich and open to a lot of awesome speculation.



Currently, I am playing a Forgotten game to understand their lore better.

I am convinced that the protagonist of the quest was in a polyamorous relationship with Zeima and the other one whose name I forgot.
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9 years ago
Apr 27, 2016, 7:50:22 PM
Frogsquadron wrote:
Slowhands: (...) watch the man finesse his way out of the situation


I'm looking forward to this.

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9 years ago
Jan 30, 2016, 1:14:37 PM
Crixler wrote:


One big question I've had for a while now is about Skoros. Skoros is the Dust guardian, but the guardians are said to predate the Endless. Yet the Endless are said to have created Dust. Did the Endless not actually create it, and merely discovered it? Or were the guardians in general around before the Endless, but Skoros specifically only came to be after the Endless created Dust? Or did the Endless create Dust, but then somehow Dust got to Auriga before the Endless themselves did, thus allowing Skoros to exist before the Endless got there? I'm thinking probably one of the latter two options.




That's a very good question. It must also be said that Skoros' face is very Endless like too. It even looks mechanical.

It would not be beyond the Endless to experiment on guardians and create their own, right after purging Auriga. In fact, I would be surprised if they didn't think of doing that.



But I have a theory that the Endless didn't create dust, but merely discovered it, a space dust life form (Russian scientists, I believe, discovered such a phenomenon that fit many criterion of what we consider "life"), and merely introduced nanites into it to control it and bend it to their will. So they "corrupted" dust. I think all that, because it is my hope that the narrator of Endless Space 2's trailer is in fact Dust. "I was in perfect harmony, before they came." It could of course be the Harmony, but would be a bit too predictable (it is also possible that the Dust and Harmony were one and the same. Perhaps dust corrupting harmony was an accident while it was trying to reach out to its "kin"....insert tears).



And one can't escape the feeling that there is a prime manipulator on Auriga. Perhaps the Dust was pulling the strings until it got out of the planet and then released itself onto the universe. So perhaps dust was contained on Auriga, after the Dust Wars, and only managed to free itself after Endless Legend. That would not be impossible, as we know that ES2 is a reboot and that EL is a prequel. That said, the Success had a dust crystal...



Too many unanswered questions, it's almost frustrating.
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9 years ago
Jan 30, 2016, 12:37:29 PM
I can definitely see humans perhaps being the result of an Endless experiment, or at least the two having a shared ancestor. The Endless looks too human-like for there to be no connection between the two, I think.

And you have a point that the Broken Lords could still then be human, I concede that's indeed possible. I still prefer my theory, though. I wonder if book 2 of the Last Flight of the Grey Owl will have any answers to any of this.



One big question I've had for a while now is about Skoros. Skoros is the Dust guardian, but the guardians are said to predate the Endless. Yet the Endless are said to have created Dust. Did the Endless not actually create it, and merely discovered it? Or were the guardians in general around before the Endless, but Skoros specifically only came to be after the Endless created Dust? Or did the Endless create Dust, but then somehow Dust got to Auriga before the Endless themselves did, thus allowing Skoros to exist before the Endless got there? I'm thinking probably one of the latter two options.
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9 years ago
Jan 30, 2016, 12:10:16 PM
@ Crixler,



You are right in that the Broken Lords questline does make mention of ancestors and seems to point to the Endless being those ancestors. I had forgotten about that, so thanks for the reminder! But I am inclined to believe, as I mentioned in the part talking about the origin of "humans", that all "humans" on Auriga might be descendant from the Endless, a devolution of sorts, rather than the Broken Lords being "direct" descendants of the Concretes and survivors. There is a nuance, I believe, between being a direct descendant and being one of several off-shoots centuries / millennia down the line.



Because while it is true that we do not see their faces, we see their skin which looks "human", and we see that they developed societies that are more similar to "human" than not. They most certainly seem to have forgotten their origin and have developed new customs and traditions.



And while it is also true that the split between what became Broken Lords and Roving Clans was the original idea, the following passage does not indicate that a change of origin perse but rather new ideas on how their nomadic life would be like thanks to the artists. So I think it is still valid to believe that Roving Clans, Ardent Mages, and Broken Lords are all related. This is further corroborated by their artistic and architectural style. All three of them have a style that spans from the Middle East to Central and East Asia, providing for a certain smoothness and cohesion as opposed to an abrupt discrepancy in aesthetics. And if the Amber Plains was the cradle, then it would make sense for the Broken Lords to have architecture and symbolisms that are the closest to their ancient origins, as opposed to the people that moved elsewhere and eventually adapted to their new environments.



I also think the fact that the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages are the best parallels to the Concretes and Virtuals respectively is not a coincidence either. It does seem to suggest that the "humans" of Auriga are tightly linked with the Endless, be it a very successful experiment (including splicing between Endless and humans), or actual descendants.



Hmmm.



HMMMM.
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9 years ago
Jan 30, 2016, 11:34:44 AM
KnightofPhoenix wrote:
The Facts & Concept Art devblogs are an awesome resource. But it is my impression that they sometimes make reference to ideas that didn't materialise or that had changed substantially. For instance, one person said that the Broken Lords are Concrete survivors, which is seemingly contradicted by the faction intro. So it might have been the original idea behind them before it was changed. Unless they are concretes...





Notice how the Broken Lords intro cutscene doesn't show any of their faces in the flashback, however. Additionally, their questline states that the Temple of the Earth's Core was built by their ancestors. The Temple of the Earth's Core was built by the Concrete Endless. Furthermore, their armor and the relics from their questline have the same circular patterns that can be seen one various Endless ruins. The Vaulters also wear those same circular patterns on their armor, but since they've been living in Endless ruins for a long time, it makes sense that they would adopt some of the patterns. Then there's the fact that Broken Lord masks/faces tend to be rather tall, like those of the Endless. Their king, in particular, has a very Endless looking face.

I think it's fairly safe to say they are indeed descended from the Concrete Endless.



KnightofPhoenix wrote:
It would appear that the Roving Clans came into existence after breaking off from the main body of what will eventually be known as the Broken Lords, who we will assume were located on the Amber Plains. It is unclear whether the Ardent Mages are also an offshoot of the Broken Lords, or are rather an eventual off shoot from the Roving Clans. The similarity in names (both having significant Middle Eastern influence), as well as the fact that the Ardent Mages also have clans, seems to suggest the latter scenario.





The Ardent Mage questline - or perhaps it was the Roving Clans one, I cannot remember for sure which one - states that the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages are kin, and were once a single faction long ago.



Regarding the Roving Clans being descended from the Broken Lords, note that the dev blog that mentions that specifically notes that that was their original idea. I imagine they likely changed their minds about that tidbit after they decided to make the Broken Lords be Endless. While I could definitely see there being a relation between the Endless and humans, I don't think humans are straight-up descended from them. And if they were, this would suggest that humans evolved from the Endless and got short faces on Auriga, making them natives. Making humans native to Auriga seems like too big of a twist, I think.



...Other than all that, this looks really good, and I agree with most everything here.

Hopefully we can someday soon get more official information on this stuff.



SpaceVC wrote:
Where is Slowhands when we need him? smiley: smile
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