Jojo_Fr wrote:
This obsession is motivaed by the will to have more pleasure in MP, more replaybility, more diversity in strategy, so in long term, more clients for Endless Legend.



It does matter very much for a minority of players, but I know most of players just want fresh experience.



Me too I want fresh experience. For exemple more viable governors mean more fresh experience. It would be bad if Allayi would be only viable and competitive in rude winter setting, for exemple.

Except there are a fair number of people who are demonstrating that the Allayi are very viable and no where near as gimped as you're making it out to be.



The problem with looking at MP only for a game like this is that there is no way to make diplomacy matter in it. It is one of the reasons why I have zero interest in MP in these types of games. I can in no way count on MP players playing with any sort of personality matching their faction and it just becomes the same slog to do the same things as efficiently as possible. Fun and my own personal pace of play be damned. 4X games simply do not have large MP communities. Your obsession is motivated by wanting more MP clients for EL and no matter what the balance for the game is, that is very unlikely to happen.



The fact remains though that I still won with my first game playing the Allayi despite all these shortcomings you keep saying they have. Maybe there are slight balance changes to be made, but I tend to seriously doubt those will be anything near the magnitude of what you're trying to propose in your other thread.



All that aside, I think the Allayi are one of the most interesting factions in the game and I really have little to complain about with them.

Slashman wrote:
Or maybe KnightofPhoenix just does what's fun and makes his game interesting.



What is this obsession you have with everything needing to be the most optimal strategy? Why does it matter? You can play the Allayi in a number of different ways. No governor is useless if its doing what you want it to do for your particular strategy. I used an Ardent Mage governor in my last game and won quite well with a wonder victory. She wasn't useless.



I don't know if multiplayer is your obsession or what but to most players (who don't play multiplayer anyway) it doesn't make a lick of difference. Why do you get to tell someone that their strategy isn't powerful when it clearly works for them?

This obsession is motivaed by the will to have more pleasure in MP, more replaybility, more diversity in strategy, so in long term, more clients for Endless Legend.



It does matter very much for a minority of players, but I know most of players just want fresh experience.



Me too I want fresh experience. For exemple more viable governors mean more fresh experience. It would be bad if Allayi would be only viable and competitive in rude winter setting, for exemple.

BPrado wrote:
Now, it takes ages to level a second Allayi hero bought from the Market

I didn't find it that time consuming, if you also use that hero for pearl collection with the Auriga Affinity 3 accessory (3xp per cluster), as well as building a few improvements when there is nothing to do. Of course it's nothing as fast as with your starting hero (esp with Guardian content, which I deactivate). But I prefer to use the starting hero as a military commander, because I find them fun on a tactical / operational level.

Building the Altar+Megapole with their Starting hero as governor will 90% of times take it to level 3 for 20% pearl reduction. That takes the first Garth from 10 to 8, the second garth from 12 to 10, then Altar is level 2, then third garth for 12 and Megapole is level 2, and hero is halfway through to level 4 in 3-4 turns. One unit stack probably reaches level 4, then you´re back at 12 pearls for the fourth garth (which should be costing almost 20).



This all looks very little, but since they´re wonder oriented and need tons of production, they need a huge capital; and then 40% discount start to become very noticeable when garths were supposed to be costing 40 pearls each. Now, it takes ages to level a second Allayi hero bought from the Market - it certainly doesn´t fit into their quest timing as well as using their main hero. On the other hand, after you left your capital with altar, megapole, canal locks and 5 garths, any hero you place to govern there will get a huge amount of xp every turn simply because the city will have huge industry.



I do recommend now a Wild Walkers over a Cult or Necro because of the discount to building production (for the wonder). After you´ve grown your capital, you can switch governors with your small city and then start growing that one for half the price.





I just think it´s funny jojo should mention Drakken as a poor governor since he hates force truce and that´s the one thing Drakken governors do.

As I said, the Allayi hero is not my main governor / administrator. That role is reserved to a Cultist governor (in my game, Andom the Seer, but Exid the Chosen and Ozek the Chosen are also great options). The Allayi governor has a very specific role, which they do quite well. Yes, it is very micro-heavy and is not a "governorship" in the classical sense of the term, but it is a unique role that I found enjoyable to play with and potent in the games that I have played. But by no means did I base my economy on him.



This Allayi "pearl governor" was my 3rd hero, followed by an Ardent mage science governor and a Forgotten spy. My starting hero was my main military commander, and my 2nd hero was Andom the Seer because a Cultist governor is always a great long term investment.



As for using stockpiles when you are not mass expanding, I use science stockpiles primarily. But I have used food and industry stockpiles to jumpstart 2-3 cities when I first founded them, so I definitely did find a use for them. In fact, the Allayi are the only faction with which I have found stockpiles appealing. It is true that the Allayi aren't the only ones with access to pearl stockpiles. But they are the only ones who can have an economy centred around them, because of their superiority in pearl collection.

Or maybe KnightofPhoenix just does what's fun and makes his game interesting.



What is this obsession you have with everything needing to be the most optimal strategy? Why does it matter? You can play the Allayi in a number of different ways. No governor is useless if its doing what you want it to do for your particular strategy. I used an Ardent Mage governor in my last game and won quite well with a wonder victory. She wasn't useless.



I don't know if multiplayer is your obsession or what but to most players (who don't play multiplayer anyway) it doesn't make a lick of difference. Why do you get to tell someone that their strategy isn't powerful when it clearly works for them?

Your strategy is cool, fun, but not powerfull. You try to do something.



You do better to put Exid the Chosen or a a slaver necro, or Ipsa Wacha if there are forest, and use them to build more units, so grabing more pearls accross the world.



And use the Allayi heroes are permanant pearls collectors. But in long term, it's better to just use a monk or a seeker with a auriga affinity item, really less expansive.



Moreover, yes stockpiles are great, but stockpiles with pearls are free to any race, not Allayi, so it's not an exclusive advantage. And Allayi have huge difficulties to expand and growth, so what will you do with your stockpiles, if you are limited to 2 then 3 city 50 % of the game, then 2 more cities, and generally not more ?



Using stockpiles is great if you mass expand, because you can instant add food or industry (but using dust + tech and plans are enough interesting to urge buildings).







Allayi governor should juste have more economic bonus. A governor is a governir, he cannot collect things pearls, and return to city after, or something like that, because it needs time to reload them, and because it's not really interesting.



And there are already too much useless governors, players who are optimizer always use the sames traits : dust efficiency, industry efficiently, slaver, cultist governor, and Petrov Judith (Science efficiency). Useless governors are : drakkens, allayis and ardent mages.



In my opinion, as Allayi are generalist, and as their are seclusive, players should been incitated to use mostly allayi as governors, but it means they should have specific bonus only usable for them.



It could be :



- Allayi leadership harmony (trait for all allayi hero) : Allayi governor into allayi city reduce by 10 % by level the expansion disapproval.

- Master of the gardens (skill put somewhere after the auriga affinity skill) : Each allayi district level 2 produce in winter one pearl per turn, and any allayi garden produce each turn (winter or summer) 2 dust and 2 food.