I used to be a huge Civ fan, until I stumbled on a free weekend opportunity for Endless Space. From Endless Space, I learned about Endless Legend. Since playing Endless Legend I have come to love this game. Between the two games I've logged around 800 hours. I constantly wonder and think about Endless Legend 2. I have no doubt it's coming, but when?

PS. Please keep out the stupid Sea faction. I have the DLC. Outside of that, you have made a flawless game!

From similar comments to yours that I've seen in the past, the devs are open to the idea but have no current plans on making Endless Legend 2. Perhaps after Humankind is released we will hear more about this.

Problem is - Humankind isn't done yet. Nor for the players, nor for developers. I don't know what their next main internal project is, but it definitely won't be a prime focus for the time being.

I'm not holding my breathe to be playing EL2 anytime before 2 years from now (guesstimate), but I would love to be pleasantly surprised someday!

hazmat22 wrote:

I'm not holding my breathe to be playing EL2 anytime before 2 years from now (guesstimate), but I would love to be pleasantly surprised someday!

There is no way short of a miracle that a game with the production values associated with this studio and Sega as a publisher will release a product within two years about which not even a hint of pre-planning involvement has been forthcoming. Even if pre-alpha planning were to start some time in 2022, which seems exceptionally unlikely, that would make a release goal in 2026 seem like a breathless dash.

onomastikon wrote:

hazmat22 wrote:

I'm not holding my breathe to be playing EL2 anytime before 2 years from now (guesstimate), but I would love to be pleasantly surprised someday!

There is no way short of a miracle that a game with the production values associated with this studio and Sega as a publisher will release a product within two years about which not even a hint of pre-planning involvement has been forthcoming. Even if pre-alpha planning were to start some time in 2022, which seems exceptionally unlikely, that would make a release goal in 2026 seem like a breathless dash.

They are working on EL2 for sure, but to what degree, what commitment level and with what resources/funding behind it at this very moment, it could easily be no more than the invite only player surveys they conducted last year on EL2 interest.  After what happened to them with Humankind, I'm just hoping their pockets are deep enough to finish ED, make it a smash hit of at least Risk of Rain 2 quality, and then have the funding and breathing room to truly give EL2 the love it needs.

I can say that if EL2 built on the lore and play of EL1, actually had proper bug AND balance testing (time and money both) and all the things Amp has learned since 1, I would probably be able to die happy if it was a quality 4X that surpassed current ELCP level gameplay.  It doesn't (listen up here Amp) need huge cinematics or famous voice actors (I hate Sean Bean now btw), it doesn't need any of the super expensive bells and whistles crap AAA games are all getting sucked into.

- It needs much better net code or a different server architecture system (like having server nodes that players connect to more locally, to avoid ping, lag, dropping, hanging, etc, the endless issues we have trying to play right now).  I could host an EL node for NA on Gigabit and if every single game flowed through it, I bet it would use like 5gb a month right now.  So players could even pay a small monthly fee (and I mean like $1-3 max) for real, quality stable connections to play, I would pay that to support and enjoy my game.

- It cannot be released in a form like Civ 6 and Humankind were, where only casual players can enjoy it.  Bugs and Balance might not ruin their game but any serious 4X player has 200 hours in the game within 3 months and has broken it a million ways and can't stand the totally borked balance.  This ruins your Rep, your Balance Sheet, our Hearts and Loyalty and just sucks overall for everyone involved, all of you on that end as well I am sure.  I don't know what helps with that, Time and Money for sure and always but maybe we the players could bug test, Alpha, Beta, even Omega test if needed to help release a more polished product.

- As much as you tout the games2gather and have Endless Day (I like old name, and logos, sorry), Endless Legend is 96.7% abandoned (like I said, MT was 80% Good, but also 110% Bad on release) and I don't even know if this feedback will be soon or acknowledged (I saw Jojo made a big Humankind post as he moved to it, hope it is getting replies, but I still love EL too much).  I've been playing EL online for 1 year now and started the most active (not biggest mind you, but most games, talk and fun) Multiplayer EL Discord maybe 6-7 months ago.  It's doing OK, nothing better but it gets all the players from the larger, older MP server that actually ask to play a game of EL, their admin knows and plays with us and just sends them over to actually find games.  That server is just a big list of player names that never play, and now you made it the official place to go on your Discord, lol.  Maybe I should have tried to introduce myself to admins on the Amp Discord but I'm not that kind of person.  I made posts about the server and had an invite link for a while but pulled it later to avoid creating conflict with the MP server (before Grim took over as moderator and I didn't have to worry about drama).

I would think someone at Amp would have 5 minutes here or there to reach out and engage with the most vocal and active members of their community who appear to be attempting to grow said communities and bring more players to said game.  Because all eyes like this and attention lead to better future sales of all of your games (you hope).

If you ever want to hear more of my ramblings you know how to reach me! =)

haz

There are only 2 or 3 new Endless Legend threads on this forum every week, yet I have yet to see a single Amplitude developer reply to a thread recently.

Amplitude devs, if you are reading this comment, please comment on some threads to prove that Amplitude still actually does listen to and care about its Endless Legend players.

Damn so no official movement. Hell they could re-release EL with support for larger maps and more detailed models and that'd be enough for a full price from me. Such an incredible game.  Hope some other indy studio at least picks up on what makes it wonderful and flogs a bootleg :P come on Paradox, this is your time to finally shine! lol

EndlessDoom wrote:

exedor64 wrote:

Damn so no official movement. Hell they could re-release EL with support for larger maps and more detailed models and that'd be enough for a full price from me. Such an incredible game.  Hope some other indy studio at least picks up on what makes it wonderful and flogs a bootleg :P come on Paradox, this is your time to finally shine! lol

Endless Legend 2 was in the Epic leak. Not official or anything, but good indicator that EL2 is probably being worked on and coming after Endless Dungeon

If this is true I am really looking forward to this since EL is one of the best, right next to FFH, in terms of a 4x fantasy game.

I agree with folks here generally that Endless Legend really was a gem. It didn't try to follow Civilization and did something new. The Endless series' writing, lore, and music are superb. And they weren't afraid to do something new: the new combat style, making terrain matter more, equipping units, giving units abilities, having heroes, having a load of flavorful resources on the map in addition to useful and (usually) differentiated resources, and truly different civilizations to pick from that they weren't afraid to give unique mechanics as well as asymmetrically balance, making each one a unique experience and joy to play. It leaned into its interesting fantasy/sci-fi mixed setting with its factions, art, and music. (Although it could have leaned even more into it with more out-of-combat magic, out of combat technology uses, and fantasy or sci-fi terrain that did more than look cool and give FIDS (although credit to the lava DLC)).

I was then surprised when their next project was trying to compete directly with Civilization ala Humankind. Gone were the heroes, interesting resources, interesting faction mechanics, and unique setting, lore, and writing.

I suppose it was a marketing decision. A way to go more mainstream and attract more people to Amplitude. And perhaps a way to escape only making Endless games.

I hope they learned a lot. About working with a publisher, about budgeting for expensive teaser cinematics and voice actors, about further developing their engine, and UI/UX. But I really wonder what design lessons they learned that are useful for future games, especially a potential Endless Legend 2. To my perspective, they went so far away from EL, I don't know what they might have taken away from Humankind.

And I'm left worrying if Humankind didn't damage Amplitude's ability to market an Endless Legend 2 to both SEGA and the gaming audience.

I'm not under the NDA but I'm happy to honor the spirit of it. (aka I won't answer any questions asked in reply)

You can all be happy, there is movement out there, details are emerging, no clue about any timelines, so rejoice some =)

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed it sees the light of day, isn't Humankind in release quality and doesn't look to earn $500/player to enjoy.

It was confirmed on stream that Endless Legend is not in development anymore, a while back, if I recall. Same for ES2, but there is a community patch in development, where they hired someone else to fix the last batch of bugs.

As for Endless Legend 2, it will most likely happen after Endless Dungeon releases. Usually that's how studios work. Most likely already in the works, and not a matter of if it will happen, but when it will happen.

Right now, the entire dev team is likely separated in various departments working each on a project and they're spread thin.

I won't speak on the topic on Humankind since I want to make my own large post about what it lacks and what I feel that makes the game struggle.

There's also the EL Community Patch, but that's not as large of a project as ESG is for ES2. perhaps something like Vox Populi will emerge over time for the game. Who knows. 

Ultimately, the largest factor in all of this is patience. No good game comes out rushed just because players want it now. I'd rather them be radio silent about it and not interact at all and just wait patiently for the upcoming releases. There's tons of games to play, why limit yourself to just one or two. I cycle through a lot of games, which include EL and ES2.

it's all about time in the end.

AXEL-M74 wrote:

It was confirmed on stream that Endless Legend is not in development anymore, a while back, if I recall. Same for ES2, but there is a community patch in development, where they hired someone else to fix the last batch of bugs.

As for Endless Legend 2, it will most likely happen after Endless Dungeon releases. Usually that's how studios work. Most likely already in the works, and not a matter of if it will happen, but when it will happen.

Right now, the entire dev team is likely separated in various departments working each on a project and they're spread thin.

Correct and I agree, all of the above is already pretty widely known (hint, hint)

I won't speak on the topic on Humankind since I want to make my own large post about what it lacks and what I feel that makes the game struggle.

Perfect, only used it as a negative example and avoid all talk of it most of the time

There's also the EL Community Patch, but that's not as large of a project as ESG is for ES2. perhaps something like Vox Populi will emerge over time for the game. Who knows. 

ELCP and ESG are plenty, the part where they are mandatory to enjoy the games is unfortunate.  I believe also neither is likely to see nearly the same active development going forward but I don't know as much about ESG so one can hope.

Ultimately, the largest factor in all of this is patience. No good game comes out rushed just because players want it now. I'd rather them be radio silent about it and not interact at all and just wait patiently for the upcoming releases. 

You are welcome to be patient and wait, no one is trying to rush them to get a subpar product (that's for FPS kiddies to mess up with their franchises)

Amplitude invented Games2Gether I believe, so I like to think maybe someone there still wants to engage someday again.  Thus why I'm blanketing the Discord and Forum one last time to touch base.

There's tons of games to play, why limit yourself to just one or two. I cycle through a lot of games, which include EL and ES2.

it's all about time in the end.

Please don't jump to conclusions so quickly on the internet, I personally find it annoying when random people appear and start attempting to put words in my mouth.

haz

Oh, and if you were commenting in a totally general way on this entire thread, feel free to ignore the parts of my reply that assumed it was directed my way, the rest should still be valid though.

This forum is 99% dead and I replied on a ton of threads today, so I assumed any new messages were relatively direct responses, lol. (even though you didn't quote me, but that's also rare here =/)

AXEL-M74 wrote:

There's also the EL Community Patch, but that's not as large of a project as ESG is for ES2. perhaps something like Vox Populi will emerge over time for the game. Who knows. 

Different scopes to each mod. ELCP optimizes the game, fixes bugs, and makes the whole package more playable. From what I understand the balance decisions were largely requested by the EL competitive community, but they aren't anything too big, mostly number changes. ESG however (as the creator of that mod) is more about improving gameplay and making things more fun than optimization or bug fixes (though we certainly have our fair share of bugfixes, as that's how the mod originally started). I honestly don't see a point to having a Vox Populi mod for EL, as the game already feels a bit bloated for content and ELCP "fixes" many of the balancing issues.

hazmat22 wrote:
I believe also neither is likely to see nearly the same active development going forward but I don't know as much about ESG so one can hope.

The two main people behind it, Waky and I, are both pretty busy nowadays, and a lot of what's left to do isn't super important stuff that also requires a lot of work. They'll probably happen some day, but as it stands I don't current have the ability to devote that much time to something without being paid, and Waky is busy in his own career and was largely just working on the mod for fun. So, probably updates, definitely small fixes and tweaks.

I went to check out that thread that was guaranteed to be a disaster and sure enough it was closed, but dammit that person managed to get a real reply from a Dev even =P

(can't comment there, so this is close) [and yes, I know they are 200% different situations and the one is actually much easier to deal with and shut up then the other, hehe]

Not even looking for one now that I'm closing up shop, but gave me a small chuckle.

Take care all,

haz

I highly doubt we will see EL2 any time soon considering that Humankind basically fits the niche, and it had huge potential on release and still has tremendous potential for expanding. I'd rather see Endless Space 3 as a new game, with more space (pun intended) for fresh ideas and experiments.

So I bet it's either ES3 or some completely new genre (card game a la Magic the Gathering, looter-shooter, you name it).

pixelgoo wrote:

I highly doubt we will see EL2 any time soon considering that Humankind basically fits the niche, and it had huge potential on release and still has tremendous potential for expanding. I'd rather see Endless Space 3 as a new game, with more space (pun intended) for fresh ideas and experiments.

So I bet it's either ES3 or some completely new genre (card game a la Magic the Gathering, looter-shooter, you name it).

It's always enjoyable to see speculation- keep it coming :) 

pixelgoo wrote:

I highly doubt we will see EL2 any time soon considering that Humankind basically fits the niche

This is a depressing assertion, Humankind doesn't even come close to "fitting the niche", it's a generic knock off of Civ, utterly vanquished of art or grace. EL blows it away by a country mile.

Amplitude is going to announce a new game this summer. Several months ago, they put out a survey. In the survey, there were a good number of questions pertaining the 4X genre and "Endless Legend". So I have a suspicion the next game is a sequel to "Endless Legend". I asked the developers during a Beer Together; they stayed mum about it, but they did seem amused about the question. So we're going to find out soon, what their next game is!