The current way that The Forgotten purchase technologies with Dust is operationally impaired because without having any contact with any other empire they can buy the technology... from the pixies? hmmm. 

The Forgotten should only be able to either purchase technologies off other empires and only after that empire has researched that technology (and coming back to my belief that not all empires should be best buds and there should be natural enemies/friends etc then the cost should depend on the relationship with the empire in question) or through the market place at an elevated cost.

For a people that can't see science, that makes sense from a story perspective, but (aside from the possible tech cost reduction from friendly civs) it seems like the suggested added restrictions would totally screw over the Forgotten.

They already have problems researching as it is, at least in the early game, and that seriously impedes their game in my experience. What would you suggest to balance that out?

TheTakenKing wrote:

For a people that can't see science, that makes sense from a story perspective, but (aside from the possible tech cost reduction from friendly civs) it seems like the suggested added restrictions would totally screw over the Forgotten.

They already have problems researching as it is, at least in the early game, and that seriously impedes their game in my experience. What would you suggest to balance that out?

It makes sense up to the point of the Forgotten buying technology off the pixies and before any other race has researched it  

Through the market place at an elevated cost. You may be right regarding early game and I will have to play another game with them and come back to you on that, but the way money rolls in hand over fist how much of an issue would it be later on? The buffs in this game remind me of the old Quake Quad Power up!!

I've always interpreted The Forgotten purchasing know-how from individuals, minor factions, and academies, rather than buying a piece of technology. 

From that know-how (blueprints, methodologies, processes...etc) they develop the actual technologies and improvements.

As the creator of that video... :P

...one of the biggest problems is Grassilk.  Without Grassilk your income is like 13-14k.  With Grassilk it's 40k.  You shouldn't be that reliant on a single luxury to TRIPLE your power, in effect.  But National Craftsworks (doubles luxury effects) plus Customs Ministry (seven more trade routes) plus Roving Clans hero plus Grassilk (and to a lesser extent Dustwater and even Dust Orchid) all combine to give an exponential overall increase.  It's all about stacking multiplicative (rather than additive) bonuses.

Grendel wrote:

So when you buy stockpiles from the market, are you buying those from the pixies, too? Anyway, if forgotten spying tech were actually a strong option, the intended crutch of buying tech wouldn't really be needed. Instead, it ends up being a better option because the mechanics of tech espionage are weak.

The above video is a gimmick, like putting a jet engine in a moped, then watching others complain about how fast mopeds are compared to cars.

OK let me type this slowly so you can follow...

Stockpiles are bought from the market, technology is bought from ........ yer, the pixies. The Forgotten can buy technology that the other (and the only other advanced) civilisations have not yet acquired.

Capt.TeddyBear wrote:

The current way that The Forgotten purchase technologies with Dust is operationally impaired because without having any contact with any other empire they can buy the technology... from the pixies? hmmm. 

The Forgotten should only be able to either purchase technologies off other empires and only after that empire has researched that technology (and coming back to my belief that not all empires should be best buds and there should be natural enemies/friends etc then the cost should depend on the relationship with the empire in question) or through the market place at an elevated cost.

It's an interesting concept. But what if they're not "officially" buying it from another empire, but rather bribing some high-ranked personell to hand-over the secrets ? Then the official relationship with that empire doesn't matter actually.

I think that if other empires allow you to get to a point where you earn 12-15K dust per turn w/o the boosters, even if you don't win a science victory, you'll most probably win the game anyway.

So I don't find this the main issue, but rather a by-product of the main issue, which IMO is the fact that the AI is not aggressive enough.

I've recently watched a Forgotten play-through on YouTube, on Endless difficulty, where the player was being continuously assaulted by the Drakken though they didn't share any borders, nor was the player the easiest target in the region.

I think this is a way more challenging (if at times frustrating) way to increase the difficulty ^^

I like to think of it on a different level. The forgotten are not stupid. They are very smart. Science in this game i feel can be thought of in physical terms as the accumulation of knowledge through written resources and study. 

Most empires aquire it by the efforts of a portion of their people who devote themselves to gathering such knowledge about their world...the accumulation of enough said knowledge and fact can subsequently be brought together to produce new technologies.

The forgotten culturaly however devote none of their peole to this task. Instead they purchase not so much the individual technologies themselves, but the resource of general knowledge available to all people who study the planet. They thrn are able to use that resource (which is what science translates to in game) to craft their own new ideas and technologies. Hence their ability to create new technologies before others through the purchase of the semi-physical resource of wtitten knowledge/science.

Or think of it this way...most empires of different languages have scienteists that write books on chemistry right? From a good chemistry book you coukd learn a lot about chemical reactions.  The forgotten as an empire instead of having scientists accumulate such knowledge themselves, just buy someone elses chemistry book and use it to extrapolate how to make pharmapsuedical drugs themselves.