I second this.

If gotten early game, -10 influence means at best no empire plan before around turn 50. At worst, you are the cultists or the forgotten, you can't do what your faction is designed to do and you accumulate delay in race development.

Hi !

On the one hand, Tempest added new features, such as the influence facility, that changed the way you play the game. You can't just stay on land and expand, you have to gain control of the seas, or at least, contest it. This is why facility such as this one exist, to force player contest the sea.

On the other hand, yeah in many games online, when a player gain control of the influence facility, the others disband yelling "gg". Is it too strong ? It's strong enough for some to think they can't do a thing about it.

In my opinon, the harsh, raw -10/+10 influences might be a little too much. But a flat value have to be kept. With the dust facility they should be major strategic building allowing to change the course of a game as it was intended too.

Now about the fact Morgawr will rekt you whenever you tried to do something on the sea ...

Clearly they should be a more % based reductions with these redux type of facilities. Something like 10% decrease to all empires output with additional bonuses for more facilities owned. It should have an impact early game but not be crippling unless you own the entire ocean perhaps.  Late game a flat 10 points is an irrelevant drop in the bucket for some empires, making it 10% continues to make the value of the decrease substantive, even if its the only facility you can hang on to late game.  

My biggest problem with these facilities (which were nerfed in the patch they just released) is that sometimes there's nothing you can do about it.  If the facility is on the other side of the world I have no hope of doing anything about losing all of my influence.  Maybe the could make an adjustment so that the closer you are to the facility the greater the impact.

I hate this building so badly.

gap81 wrote:

Clearly they should be a more % based reductions with these redux type of facilities. Something like 10% decrease to all empires output with additional bonuses for more facilities owned. It should have an impact early game but not be crippling unless you own the entire ocean perhaps.  Late game a flat 10 points is an irrelevant drop in the bucket for some empires, making it 10% continues to make the value of the decrease substantive, even if its the only facility you can hang on to late game.  

I 100% agree with making this percentage-based.  When using a faction who operates on low Influence, it will outright destroy you.  When I have to move 1/2 my empire population into Influence just to get a net positive, then I don't even want to bother playing anymore.  Quit Game > Load Endless Space 1.

This is becoming ludicous. If someone gets this facility before turn 20 you might as well just quit. Esspecially if its an AI on higher difficulties. It will take multiple cities with all their pop on influence just to get out of negative, and by the time you can deal with this you will be way too far behind.

If it only affected empire plans it would be whatever, as early empire plans are meh anyways; but the real misery is you cannot even build enough influence to declare war on whoever holds it. Good luck if they have claimed the ocean region where it lies. You cannot attack their facility now, and that assumes you uave access to thenocean and resources to make a navy in the first place. The amount of effort required to deal with this is too much in the early game. There isnt even a good building to counter its effects. Sewers provide 1 influence in era 1, and even the era 2 tech requires 2 built just to get back to even. 

Please for the love of god, make this a % based penalty in the next hot fix.

Another potential nerf would be to make it just make it available in a later era.  If it were to start in Era 4 (maybe era 3) the raw influence wouldn't be as bad if it started later.

I agree with what it has been said. I experienced it myself yesterday in a multi game with a friend.

I could only do 2 rounds of empire strategy before the AI got the Center of Influence, close its borders and no way for us to counter that..

Shame though, I think we'll avoid sea maps until this is nerf a bit.

I came actoss an interesting find in one of the Tempest teaser stickies left by the Devs reguarding fortesses. Apparently all facilities of this nature were originally posted as ti having a penalty of only -5 to FIDSI instead of the -10 we see now on them. Obviously this was a pre-release teaser post, but i am curious as to why they changed it. Im certain that even bringing it back down to that level at this point would bring it back in line from completely breaking the game to just a major annoyance but still managable. 

What do you all think? Seems an easy fix right? I like % based change better but ill take what i can get.

Hi, thanks for your feedback. This is clearly something we would like to fix. Right now, we can't guarantee a quick patch, but we're going to see what can be done.

I have changed the file: SimulationDescriptors[PointOfInterestImprovement].xml

The change is in bold: 

$(CenterOfInfluenceFlatMalus) * 0.2  --> Should reduce the -10 to -2 influence per turn

  <!-- Center of Influence Facility Malus -->

  <SimulationDescriptor Name="FacilityUnique2Malus"                       Type="FacilityUniqueMalus">

    <SimulationPropertyDescriptors>

      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="CenterOfInfluenceMalus"     BaseValue="0" MinValue="Negative" MaxValue="0"  IsSealed="true"/>

      <SimulationPropertyDescriptor Name="CenterOfInfluenceFlatMalus" BaseValue="0" MinValue="0"   IsSealed="true"/>

    </SimulationPropertyDescriptors>

    <SimulationModifierDescriptors>

      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="EmpirePoint"  Operation="Percent"     Value="$(CenterOfInfluenceMalus)"     ValueMustBePositive="true"/>

      <SimulationModifierDescriptor TargetProperty="EmpirePoint"  Operation="Subtraction" Value="$(CenterOfInfluenceFlatMalus) * 0.2" Priority="10"/>

    </SimulationModifierDescriptors>

  </SimulationDescriptor>

Sorry, but I disagree here. 

Sure, if someone grabs the centre of influence early enough that you cannot even declare war, you're screwed. But it takes considerable resources to secure an oceatic region, and there should be a considerable payoff for the opportunity cost. It is possible to avoid this, take the centre yourself, or prevent the region from being controlled by a single player. 

IMO, I think it'd be cool if the effects took effect after 5 or 10 turns of holding it, and immediately upon capture, the owner received a chunk of influence. Then, whoever captures the centre next would receive a chunk of influence depending upon how long the previous owner held it for. This would ensure it's relevance continues late game. When someone takes a centre of influence, everybody gets notified. e.g. "the drakken now hold a second centre of influence, the mogawr now hold a single centre of influence". 

Secondly, i'd like the negetive effects to only apply to players in cold war or hot war with the owner. After signing peace, you'd no longer be effected. The 5 or 10 turn grace period would grant long enough to ratify peace if you prioritized it. Otherwise, you better be prepared that nobody controls an entire region with a centre of influence in it, if you don't have the capacity to declare war should an enemy hold the centre of influence. 

For the player holding the centre, i think it'd be nice to have "+5 infuence per ally and +1% of their influence income". That way, the player who owns the centre isn't disincentivised to persue peace. 

Perhaps it would be fairest to have an exception to the necrophage however, since they can't really do peace deals. 

The centre is disruptive to previous strategies, true. However, it makes naval investments really pay off, and heats up the game. I've declared war on the drakken just to seize a centre of influence. Having the centre makes you a target to other players, and if the changes I've suggested take place, it would remain a highly contested resource while increasing the viability of peace, and offering an alternative to war. 

I haven't tried it out, but do Naval Privateers work? That, or naval Catspaw could allow the centre of influence to return to neutral hands without a declaration of war would be a partial solution.