What i noticed in game is that i mostly ignore sea/lake tiles, since there is not much interesting to do with it. Maybe implementing sea transport or trade will change that, but i feel that it is 10% of map just cut off without strong reason.



Problem: Nothing interesting is goning on sea tiles.

Regions are created at random with regions with preated coastline are less viable due to sea use limits, and city building rules (districts).



Planned solutions: Sea trade and transport.



More ideas:

- Sea specific luxuries, like pearls, or leviathans baleen.

- Sea specific anomalies, whirwind (for science), nyphos (for population)

- Sea folk minors? Like sirens, with voice stunning/charming ability.

- Ability to control more than seashore tiles, for example build a lighthouse to expand tile used deeper into sea (beyond coast line).

- Tide up sea techs and buildings, make them separete from rivers or worker allocations, but make them matter, viable option. Something to specialize if someone wants.

For example: normal seatile gives just some food + whatever comes from anomaly or extractor.

Buildings:

Fishermen - more food from sea/lakes

Dockyard - more production from sea/lakes

Dust collector - moderate dust from sea

Deepth Research Mission - minor research from sea

(or something like that)

Trade buildings - depend on how trading will work, but some coastal trade bonus is thing to consider.

The idea is to make speccing in costals cities a option to consider, with high investicion needed but with reasonable profit.



More specific minor sea factions:

Nymphs

Villages spawn always at lakes or coast.

Each village reduce cost of Nymphs and reduce cost of next pop by 5%.

Unit: Wand users, range support, blasting at range or healing. In melee they use shout, which also stunds target. (like special attack) slow, fragille.



Something to consider.

Several people suggested a sea based faction in the competition and I'd very much like to see one of those win, I feel it could help address the problem you're talking about here.

The problem with sea in EL is that the devs are not planning any naval fights at all. From what I understand, they want oceans to be what they were in early medieval times - a source of food for coastal cities, a fast way of transportation and not much else really.

That said, I would love to see some sea-specific resources, I don't think they would be too difficult to implement either.

Water anomalies and water minor factions however... ugh, that could be hard. Anomalies are useless unless there are cities nearby. And cities cannot be built in water. I wouldn't even be surprised if it's something that simply is so hard-coded into EL that it cannot be changed.

As for sea-based minor factions.... well, how would one talk to them or bribe them? The tech to travel on water is only available in midgame so it could take a while. And how does one attack a minor faction village when it's not possible to have battles on water?



Such features might be implemented later, possibly in an expansion or something. But from what I've read thus far, it's just not what the devs are planning for the full release. Maybe they'll change their mind though

To be specific i was thinking about minor factions, anomalies, luxuries which are near coast not in far ocean.

The clue of problem is that region happen to be long shaped and with complicated coastline (like fjords) the player in that region is a bit screwed, there is a clear advantage of big, uncomplicated regions which is a bit boring.



The goal is so that someone spawns in world part with many seaside regions he can think how to use them for best rather than how to run away from there.

And putting something on coastal seatiles would help and bring some attencion to sea.

And it will not be moodkiller, since of course there could be luxuries from sea.

PANCZASU wrote:
The problem with sea in EL is that the devs are not planning any naval fights at all. From what I understand, they want oceans to be what they were in early medieval times - a source of food for coastal cities, a fast way of transportation and not much else really.

I would just like to kindly point out that in Medival times the seas looked like this for allot of countries:







And that Era IV is the age of Industry and Era V the age of politics. Looking at our own planet's timeline, the requisite knowledge for these two things came long after advanced exploitation of the ocean, and only fueled naval combat.



Seriously, is there any real reason to even settle on the sea in EL? Sure there are a few techs that give bonuses, but you can't expand your boroughs into the sea and could just as easily get bonuses from land anomalies and rivers. And even with those sea bonuses you can only expand them so far, whereas with a good river you can expand over it for much longer.



Besides, one of the map types is archipelago like, so perhaps I'm lost but how will that be fun in any way without sea raiding and/or ocean exploitation?

The coastal area has only one advantage as far as I know - a research bonus once you research the right building.



I agree that the coast could be far more interesting, and if we look at our own histories of civilisations we see many benefits that supported their growth. The trade option is going to be open soon I'm sure. That will help but not totally cure the issue lynxlynx makes...

The goal is so that someone spawns in world part with many seaside regions he can think how to use them for best rather than how to run away from there.

And putting something on coastal seatiles would help and bring some attencion to sea.

And it will not be moodkiller, since of course there could be luxuries from sea.

I also believe that as the winter season gets longer, that sea tiles (coastal) could offer more to the game with later technology allowing for better food, dust, science and potentially some influence or industry. If you know your history you'll know about the colour purple and its significance to how our modern society was developed.



Not sure if we'll get "Wonder building" but there is no reason that a specific building couldn't be made available (special sea based quest for example) that increases the game-play in some way based on the coastal tiles.



All of that is achievable without any minor faction, though they would be nice too - just a few

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
I would just like to kindly point out that in Medival times the seas looked like this for allot of countries:

I know but naval battles themselves weren't really that frequent (in early Medieval times at least) and that's what I was talking about



I'm also not trying to say that EL wouldn't benefit from giving more attention to sea tiles. It definitely would! I would love to see the sea playing a major role in the game and not simply be impassable terrain until you get the technology that lets you go through it. I simply stated what I think devs' intentions are right now. I could be horribly wrong. And I kinda hope I am - ocean needs some love too

Isn't sea warfare a headache for developers in general? I think I read stuff like that long ago (teach the AI and such). Easier to make land units to behave like in land just with different unit graphic. I'm all for oceanic stuff. Expansion material though. So they can focus all their attention into it.

Just read through list the dev team are working on. Nothing in there relating to trade/water etc.



/#/endless-legend/forum/6-game-design/thread/3570-g2g-endless-legend-s-list-of-community-feedback

The trade is to impement. It is just not here, so there is little of player feedback about it.

The naval combat may be overthetop.

However sominthg on water tiles would be nice, so it will not be so empty.

The Devs have thus far taken approach with combat that you can tell your men roughly what you want them to do, but not when and where to move with the obvious lack of radio and long range communication. Perhaps they could take that approach in sea, you can send your ships out on trade routes and they'll travel to the destination or you can send combat like ships out to deal with perhaps pirates or enemy ships. The thing is here that you can't tell your ships where in the sea want them, or at least not exactly but you can tell them what you want to do, basically think the combat system idea of not being able to tell your men exactly what to do.

PANCZASU wrote:
I know but naval battles themselves weren't really that frequent (in early Medieval times at least) and that's what I was talking about

My post was just in general, not at all directed at you Except I was just pointing out that you said during medieval times they were more of a source of food than anything else, but for allot of (northern) countries, the coasts were more dangerous than any other time in history.

Guys, do whatever floats your boat, but dont you think that in game with hydras, giant eldricht robots, and necro bugs (and i dont even started with the list) with historical references You drifted too far?

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
My post was just in general, not at all directed at you Except I was just pointing out that you said during medieval times they were more of a source of food than anything else, but for allot of (northern) countries, the coasts were more dangerous than any other time in history.

not just northern countries were in danger of an attack from the sea, the vikings went far and wide, including the byzantine empire and france. and as for pan's post, naval combat was not frequent during medieval times but, people often used boats to transport troops, to raid, pillage, etc.

lynxlynx wrote:
Guys, do whatever floats your boat, but dont you think that in game with hydras, giant eldricht robots, and necro bugs (and i dont even started with the list) with historical references You drifted too far?

Perhaps. But we are using the progression of the only people we know of as a reference, yes. The same reference all our legend, myths, and fables used as a reference as well. Which, in turn, is what EL uses as a reference for Auriga.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
not just northern countries were in danger of an attack from the sea, the vikings went far and wide, including the byzantine empire and france. and as for pan's post, naval combat was not frequent during medieval times but, people often used boats to transport troops, to raid, pillage, etc.

Yes, very true but not as often and not as dangerous. But then there were more than enough domestic marauders for thos countries to deal with.



But yeah, that's what I'm saying: Large bodies of water can be a big deal, and imo if they are practically ignored by the devs then they are just asking for a giant hole to be opened up in the game.

you know if they keep the sea tiles uninteresting, people may get upset. however, what if the devs implemented some sort of raiding faction like the vikings? it doesn't have to be a major or minor faction, but having to keep troops in your regions to protect them from an uncontrollable, unnegotiable horde of viking esque warriors would present some interesting gameplay strategies.