The game currently [version0.4.5] treats the Ruins similarly as a minor faction, which basically

means that they give no FIDS, you can't end the movement on them and you can't build on them.

Which makes them totally useless after exploration. In most cases even in your way of City expansion.



They should however be treated similarly as an anomaly. Here are the reasons why:



1.Anomaly produces FIDS

The ruins will now produce FIDS, which will make them much more useful.

On top of the FIDS produced by the type of the Tile under the Ruins itself, the Ruins can also produce

none, positive or negative extra FIDSI themself (even Influence). Which means that there can be

different types of Ruins and not all are necessarily positive.

(for example: The Ruins are inhabited by local wild creatures that steal food. Grassland usually provides

2 food, but a grassland with this Ruins on top of it will now provide only 1 food.)



2.You can end the movement on an anomaly

No more wasted movement points! Also, the primary way of exploring a Ruins. Currently in the game [version0.4.5]

you have to stand next to the Ruins with an army and right click on it, which will pop up a automated window with

an option to search the Ruins, but will not move your army. With the change however when you stand next to

the Ruins and right click on it, you first move on to the Ruins and then the automated window pops up.

Or you can click the "Search" army action located in the Army Control panel while standing on the Ruins.

(in my opinion it makes more sense that the army is also present on the Ruins tile while searching it)

The next time your movement ends on an already explored Ruins no window pops up and no "Search" option action

appears in the Army Control panel, which means that nothing happens and you only make an normal movement action

on to an explored Ruins, unless the Ruins are reactivated again (via a quest, etc.)



3.You can build on an anomaly?

Since Ruins are sometimes related to quests, i am against building Borough Streets on top of them. Now you could

argue that you could still use the Ruins for quests and exploration later on despite building an Borough streets on top

of them, just like you do with any other anomaly. But let me ask you: have the Greeks build houses on top of the old

temple of Athene. No they did not! Ruins are monuments of history, so we will leave them alone.

Zayeban wrote:
The game currently [version0.4.5] treats the Ruins similarly as a minor faction, which basically

means that they give no FIDS, you can't end the movement on them and you can't build on them.

Which makes them totally useless after exploration. In most cases even in your way of City expansion.



They should however be treated similarly as an anomaly. Here are the reasons why:



1.Anomaly produces FIDS

The ruins will now produce FIDS, which will make them much more useful.

On top of the FIDS produced by the type of the Tile under the Ruins itself, the Ruins can also produce

none, positive or negative extra FIDSI themself (even Influence). Which means that there can be

different types of Ruins and not all are necessarily positive.

(for example: The Ruins are inhabited by local wild creatures that steal food. Grassland usually provides

2 food, but a grassland with this Ruins on top of it will now provide only 1 food.)



2.You can end the movement on an anomaly

No more wasted movement points! Also, the primary way of exploring a Ruins. Currently in the game [version0.4.5]

you have to stand next to the Ruins with an army and right click on it, which will pop up a automated window with

an option to search the Ruins, but will not move your army. With the change however when you stand next to

the Ruins and right click on it, you first move on to the Ruins and then the automated window pops up.

Or you can click the "Search" army action located in the Army Control panel while standing on the Ruins.

(in my opinion it makes more sense that the army is also present on the Ruins tile while searching it)

The next time your movement ends on an already explored Ruins no window pops up and no "Search" option action

appears in the Army Control panel, which means that nothing happens and you only make an normal movement action

on to an explored Ruins, unless the Ruins are reactivated again (via a quest, etc.)



3.You can build on an anomaly?

Since Ruins are sometimes related to quests, i am against building Borough Streets on top of them. Now you could

argue that you could still use the Ruins for quests and exploration later on despite building an Borough streets on top

of them, just like you do with any other anomaly. But let me ask you: have the Greeks build houses on top of the old

temple of Athene. No they did not! Ruins are monuments of history, so we will leave them alone.

All over the world, many ruins have been used either as the direct foundation of a new building or as a source of building materials. Our concept of ruins as monuments of history is a relatively new one. Most buildings that fall into ruin do so for a very good reason: lack of contemporary relevance. Examine the medieval history of the Coliseum in Rome as but one simple example--it is far from alone among Roman buildings in being either heavily re-purposed or used to quarry materials for projects with a pressing need. A walk through much of modern-day Rome highlights how many ancient buildings have been built-over, or built-into in order to construct newer buildings over time. The notion that historical buildings with little to no contemporary function should be preserved is a modern concept.



The Parthenon, by contrast survived this fate because it managed to obtain ongoing relevance: it was converted into a church following the Christianization of the Roman Empire and subsequently into a mosque in the wake the Ottoman conquest of Greece. It became a "ruin" in the truest sense of the word as a casualty of war: during one of the Ottomans' many conflicts with the Republic of Venice, the Parthenon was hit by a bombardment that ignited a munitions dump on the grounds and very seriously damaged the building. By that point in the late 17th Century, the building was synonymous with Athens, and thus part of the identity of the city--which had been continuously occupied since the Parthenon's construction.



The ruins in the game don't appear as places of significance that have been continuously occupied, and the starting point of the game is quasi-medieval. As such, there is no reason to think that the "people" of the EL game world would ascribe any further meaning to these ruins beyond their usefulness as a substrate for new construction. This should be particularly true for the Necrophages, who should have no scruples at all about disturbing ruined sites.



If anything, it would make more sense to allow you to construct boroughs on top of ruins directly at a reduced cost since building materials and foundations already exist there.

Even something as simple as having a ruins hex provide 2 science would be a lot better than nothing. It would also be easily rationalized. Archeology here is not all about studying earlier and less scientifically advanced societies.

It could be interesting to allow special buildings to be built over ruins, a la minor faction villages. Monuments, temples, palaces, and the like.

Yes please, do something about the ruins.

I like the idea that building on them should be allowed and that they should be treated as like anomaly adding some sience (as suggested above).

A City gets all the territory benefits and a City is usually going to take up alot more ground then a ruin, so arguing on the "no space for it" aspect is somewhat irrational.



The key Issue with the subject is the accessability for other players.



My Suggestion goes beyond ruins therefore a created a new thread:

/#/endless-legend/forum/6-game-design/thread/2993-suggestion-faction-villages-and-ruins-as-part-of-a-city-concept

Zayeban wrote:
3.You can build on an anomaly?

Since Ruins are sometimes related to quests, i am against building Borough Streets on top of them. Now you could

argue that you could still use the Ruins for quests and exploration later on despite building an Borough streets on top

of them, just like you do with any other anomaly. But let me ask you: have the Greeks build houses on top of the old

temple of Athene. No they did not! Ruins are monuments of history, so we will leave them alone.

I just feel like I should point out that the Foundation anomaly that you build Watchtowers on are just as much ruins in the historical sense as the Ruins that you search for loot. It actually makes more sense for us to be able to build Borough Streets over them than not, because we're already showing our complete disregard for whatever creatures lived on this planet before us by building over their old homes (Watchtower Foundations) and looting their graves (Searching Ruins). It'd be more internally consistent if we could build over the Ruins as well.

The only potential problem with building over ruins that I can see is that it would prevent other factions from being able to search them. Remember that even if one player searches a given ruin it is still possible for another player to search it afterwards. I could see this potentially interfering with some of the chained search quests specifically. I'm not saying that there isn't a work around, just that it's something to take into consideration. I'm all for this idea personally.