I don't like this idea.



The outcome of the game does not depend on picking the perfect city location in the first couple turns. You have plenty of opportunity to find perfect spots later. Besides, all you have to do is send your troops out in separate directions and in two or three turns you'll be able to see what is around you.



eXplore

eXpand

eXploit

eXterminate



And you want to eliminate exploration the first turn? Really? Not knowing is the whole point.



Sounds like maybe you guys should be playing a different type of game.



Pops

drewwest wrote:
This.



It completely defeats the point of exploring. I for one, 9/10 never settle in the region I first spawn in

Completely defeats the point of exploring? So your starting region is the only one you explore? After that the rest of the map can be ignored?



I am willing to bet that wandering so long with your settler that 90% of the time you don't even settle in your starting region puts you in the distinct minority, probably less than 5% of us play that same way. I also bet you'd reconsider that approach if you were in multiplayer games and not playing against an AI that is still much weaker than it will be in it's final form.

He is talking about a single region, the one you start in. It is hardly the same as if we got a faction that removes the fog of war entirely, or if settling a region unlocked vision over the adjacent ones. It's one turn and really just frees you up to explore other regions first turn.

Popsicle wrote:
I don't like this idea.



The outcome of the game does not depend on picking the perfect city location in the first couple turns. You have plenty of opportunity to find perfect spots later. Besides, all you have to do is send your troops out in separate directions and in two or three turns you'll be able to see what is around you.



eXplore

eXpand

eXploit

eXterminate



And you want to eliminate exploration the first turn? Really? Not knowing is the whole point.



Sounds like maybe you guys should be playing a different type of game.

This.



It completely defeats the point of exploring. I for one, 9/10 never settle in the region I first spawn in

@The-Cat-O-Nine-Tails

I agree, hopefully terrain will matter eventually, and in that case I would rather the starting placement algorhythym would be improved (ie, place the settler in the best location in the region) than reveal the whole region. Like in Civ, where you are generally guaranteed 2 luxuries and fairly decent prod and food - right now EL's placement feels pretty random within a region that is favorable to the faction.

Popsicle wrote:
I don't like this idea.



The outcome of the game does not depend on picking the perfect city location in the first couple turns. You have plenty of opportunity to find perfect spots later. Besides, all you have to do is send your troops out in separate directions and in two or three turns you'll be able to see what is around you.



eXplore

eXpand

eXploit

eXterminate



And you want to eliminate exploration the first turn? Really? Not knowing is the whole point.



Sounds like maybe you guys should be playing a different type of game.



Pops

In my experience, sending all my troops out in separate directions is a recipe for disaster and losing my entire starting army once minor faction units start to spawn, unless I manage to meet up by then. That, however, would be entirely reasonable to happen to lone units.



In my opinion, the point of revealing the entire starting region, or at least a little more of it, would be to let players make an informed decision where to place their first city in a multiplayer game, and with that reduce any impression of "imbalanced starting positions" that were so common in Endless Space. Furthermore, it could drastically reduce save-scumming/restarting in single player as well, which I've heard quite a few people admitting to doing (and why not, if only your own fun is on the line).





The fact that the starting position of the city doesn't seem to matter right now is only a matter of the balance between the FIDSI production of Buildings, Population, and Terrain. However, the first few turns can drag on terribly if your starting city severely lacks in one resource.

Starting city placement seems like it either matters a fair bit or not at all.

I like the idea. A lot of the time I end up frustrated missing that perfect spot, particularly because I end up assigning most of my heroes to cities (getting those +1 bonuses for forests and rivers can be massive). Though I can't imagine it being particular important for like Vaulters or Necro.

+ to this!

Placing of your first city is a big thing.

I'm not crazy about this idea. Maybe if the early econ balance is changed, but right now the early turns are much less critical than many 4x games because the early prod, food and dust buildings are so powerful as to render terrain relatively inconsequential.

Suggestion: Let the terrain of the entire starting region be known to the player (but still shrouded in fog of war beyond the starting units' visibility).



Since time immemorial (since Civ1), 4x games have always begun with your settler, a few pals, and a big sea of UNKNOWN right beyond your tiny sputtering torch. I was just wondering if there was a better way that might decrease the randomness of the first few crucial turns. In terms of gameplay, the most obvious benefit is that there is reduced randomness and allows you to make an informed decision as to where to place your first city.



1) I lover EL's creative method of using regions and how it prevents maps saturated with cities. However, for your first city, exploring the entire region before settling is not always possible. So let's say after settling your first city you subsequently find a oh-my-holies lovely location on the opposite side of your region. Unfortunately, you can no longer settle a second city there, and can just gaze at it in longing. For other 4x games without the region-mechanic, this is less of a problem as you can just settle a second city nearby to enjoy the nice spot.



2) Lore-wise, I don't recall the background story for our intrepid settlers involving them falling from the sky into a completely unknown land. Realistically, they should have some knowledge of their home region. So I think it would be nice for them to know what's in their home region.



Of course, the main trade-off, that some people may not like, is that the joy of taking the first bold steps into the big unknown will have been robbed from them. Therefore, it would be best if this suggestion is implemented as an option, allowing the player to choose "Starting-region explored" or not during map set-up.



Thanks.

Dalwin wrote:
I too think this is a great idea. Exploration is one thing, but at the very start I rarely move that settler from his initial square and risk wasting turns in the hope that there "might" be a better spot elsewhere in the region.



If you can see your starting region, you get an interesting game choice. Do I get a head start by building within a hex or so of where I started or do I spend a few turns travelling to a better spot knowing that this puts me behind?

Yea that obvious !

This sounds like a great idea to me, especially set up as an option.

I, too, am inclined to agree. I think this is something that should at least be tested.



It is, after all, your home region. You *should* know what's in it.

I too think this is a great idea. Exploration is one thing, but at the very start I rarely move that settler from his initial square and risk wasting turns in the hope that there "might" be a better spot elsewhere in the region.



If you can see your starting region, you get an interesting game choice. Do I get a head start by building within a hex or so of where I started or do I spend a few turns travelling to a better spot knowing that this puts me behind?

While many will cry that exploration is a crucial part of the 4x experience, I'm actually inclined to like this idea. More than once before, I quickly settled my city on turn one or two, only to later find a much better spot in the same region, giving acces to various high-yield tiles and approval-boosting anomalies. While it's possible to raze your city and rebuild it, that wastes several precious turns of FIDSI.



Perhaps this could be an option during game set-up.

I like this idea a lot! And yes, mainly because of this game's very unique region mechanic.



Although I'd point out that lore wise Vaulters just popped up from underground and could conceivably not have region vision.

I like this idea. Some regions just have a money spot somewhere that makes for a lot better of a start than others.