I don't like the present way of Science research = because it's wrong when you can get say weapons upgrade of lev 2 without researched lev 1.... Don't you think so?...

The Science research must have some kind of net/tree with dependencies right how made on Heroes level up abilities.

Dependencies are woven in already but give you several possibly routes and therefore variation even tho the effect can be what you describe.



I believe its a problem of perspective mostly. Even tho both are weapon tiers it doesnt mean that the next tier is based on its previous version. Its very possible that you have a peace loving civilization which never had the need to create or produce firearms but excelled in genetics and medical research. These areas could very well result in an energy form weapon which could "jump" all previous weapon types and doesnt need either of them as requirements. Just an example.



Nuclear weapons as well are not based on bow&arrow (I think...its possible that my limited knowledge in weapons technology....fascinating as it might be fails me in this topic), are way more destructive (just stopped myself from typing "better" haha) but dont need the previous scientific work (mostly ballistics and trajectory)



Its how I explain things to myself when I come across em in the game. Once I change my perspective on things they usually stop being irritating.

The actual system is pretty good althought there are some flaws. The problem is the tier 1 weapon/armor/filigree is useless. You'll get more and a way better start by researching development techs and the time to do that you'll be able to research the tier 2. Especially since half the time a quest will give you tier 3



One solution to fix the problem is to delete the tier 2/tier3 tech and only keep one tech.

Then the armor/weapon/filigree level available is determine by the era level you have unlock instead of a tech level.

For exemple something like :

GS/Ti for era 1 / Ad/Pa for era 3 / Mi/Hy for era 5

Era 1 = tier 1 GS/Ti

Era 2 = tier 2 GS/Ti

Era 3 = tier 3 GS/Ti and Tier 1 Pa/Ad

Era 4 = tier 2 Pa/Ad

Era 5 = tier 3 Pa/Ad and tier 1 Mi/Hy

Era 6 = tier 2 Mi/Hy



Imo the tier3 should'nt be available by quest, it's a little unbalanced. I would prefer quest to give special artifact available only by this way.

Fojibo wrote:
The actual system is pretty good althought there are some flaws. The problem is the tier 1 weapon/armor/filigree is useless.

Maybe, maybe not..



With my Nécrophages these thech are very useful to support my very agressive strategy, which consist to raid the maximum of village with efficient armies as soon as possible. Do not forget that these tech now synergise together with a nice +10% to their efficiency for each tech unlocked.



But I agree that their use may be marginal.



Need more tests!

I like this way for sience because you can choose the technology you need, so you don't have to waste to much time to research shit

Instead of having techs that set the level of weapons/armors, it could be techs that increase this level.

If you search one tech (whatever tier this tech belongs) for GS/Ti weapon, you'll have level 1 weapons.

If you search a second tech, you'll have level 2 weapons, and so on.



But that would weaken the GS/Ti weapons compared to the steel weapons.

So it would have to be the same system for standard weapons (adding new forge techs, starting from level 2).



In such a fashion, a player would have to choose (more) between upgrading its weapons (and so its army) or its economy.



Just a thought.

MTB-Fritz wrote:
Dependencies are woven in already but give you several possibly routes and therefore variation even tho the effect can be what you describe.



I believe its a problem of perspective mostly. Even tho both are weapon tiers it doesnt mean that the next tier is based on its previous version. Its very possible that you have a peace loving civilization which never had the need to create or produce firearms but excelled in genetics and medical research. These areas could very well result in an energy form weapon which could "jump" all previous weapon types and doesnt need either of them as requirements. Just an example.



Nuclear weapons as well are not based on bow&arrow (I think...its possible that my limited knowledge in weapons technology....fascinating as it might be fails me in this topic), are way more destructive (just stopped myself from typing "better" haha) but dont need the previous scientific work (mostly ballistics and trajectory)



Its how I explain things to myself when I come across em in the game. Once I change my perspective on things they usually stop being irritating.

controlled nuclear reactions (the warhead of your typical nuke) is based on a combination of chemistry, optics, and physics (centrifuges, high tech assembly, etc.). the typical deliver method (ICBMs) is based on chemistry, ballistics, and physics (chemical refineries, machining, metal refineries, etc.).

bows and arrows are based on ballistics, physics, and material sciences.



now a better example would be ancient rockets (or fire arrows) and modern missiles.

modern missiles use ballistics, chemistry, and physics.

ancient rockets use ballistics, chemistry, physics, and material sciences.



the key difference between the two is refining certain materials which can't be gained by just careful selection. refining fuel into a liquid and producing high quality metals make more of a difference than microchips and other extra things some modern missiles have. while in the past the need for experienced people to gather the materials to ensure they have exactly what they need has diminished as we can now purify things so that poor base materials become better than naturally available materials.



based on the real life evolution of synthetic materials one could have tier 1 be expensive but good, tier 2 be cheap and weak, and tier 3 be a building unlock that allows cheap and good. that means that an early expansion player would skip the first tier and go for the second, where he would be gaining tier 1 quality bonuses at tier 1 prices for his tier 2 base equipment. a more conservative yet still aggressive player might grab the first tier for tier 2 bonuses on tier 1 weapons (a decent boost) at tier 2 prices (using a small elite force, which would hit much harder than the necrophage, yet get overwhelmed by number at tier 2). tier 3 wouldn't allow replacing losses at newly taken cities with equivalent troops, but they would have access to tier 3 bonuses at tier 2 prices.



conversely one could do the suggestion fojibo proposed but add a era 6 tech (expensive victory tech era) that gives tier 3 Mi/Hy.



of course one could just keep the tech the same and have people not use the first level unless they are really aggressive and they need to use it early, and end up having to keep researching the techs every era to keep manhandling those he is currently manhandling (a bully tax).