For the moment I only played with the Vaulters, the Rovin Clans, the Drakken, the Necrophages and the Broken Lords.



At the moment, and looking only on 'economy' criteria, I would put them in that order : Rovin Clans > Vaulters >> Drakkens & Necrophages > Broken Lords





1. Rovin Clans :



Their economy is really powerfull, they can snow ball the game very early, from the start actually. With market access it is so easy to put your empire morale on fervent and to expand, even at the beginning. Then you recruit some mercenaries, like some Ended or some Demon, and with their huge hit point you can crush nearly any opposition.





2. Vaulters : 1/2



Like the RC their economy is very powerfull, well fuelled by their tech advantage. The difference with the RC is that the Vaulters need to start their 'holy ressource engine', so the cant dominate as early and as easily as the RC, IMO. But once started they walk on everything, expanding and teching like crazy.





3. Drakkens & Necrophages :



Drakkens & Necrophages economies look pretty ok and well balanced IMO.



Drakken seems easier to handle than Necrophages, as with all their quests and diplomacy things their economy is quite easy to handle and adjust to its developpment needs. Drakkens have also some very interesting food boost which is a good help to put their economy in place.



Necrophages economy is quite slow to put in place, but once you have 2-3 big hives installed and the Proliferators & Demanding Gods researched your economy litteraly take off and things start to become fun. Morale & dust become suddenly very easy to manage and you can focus on expansion and conquest very efficiently at that moment.





4. Broken Lords :



Broken Lords economy is very interesting to play, but despite all my try I have not found a way to have it as competitive as the others factions. The best way to manage the BL seems to play vertically (very vertically), to save dust from pop buyout (less city = less expensive pop cost) and save influence from empire plan. But even when doing that, once the mid-game is reached it becomes more and more difficult to maintain the pace of the others economy. They have very good tech from faction quest, espescially the Dust Crematorium, but may be they come a little bit too late.

Hello there,



"Which faction is the best in economy?": you have chosen the Vaulters and the Roving Clans. We will take it into account.



Thank you for your precious feedback!

It may net you a large amount of dust, but if you are relying on selling units on the market to make income then the Cult is not ideal. It's units are unupgraded, take many turns to spawn, and will generally get low prices. The Wild Walkers however, with their industry focus can pump out upgraded or retrofitted units and sell them on the marketplace for large sums of dust and very quickly.

The Cultists - selling the free units you get from Minor Factions nets you a ton a dust.

I didnt play much of Roving clans and Vaulters so I dont know too much about their economy but I doubt they can compete with Necrophages using Proliferators in the mid to end-game as long as there is something to fight (I usually play on hardest minor factions).

KrimsonVagus wrote:
Oh dear, I have a feeling that the Vaulters are gonna get nerfed hard in future patches/expansions



Roving clans have pretty good economic abilities but they are not automated. You can take advantage of market exploits to be powerful with them, which requires your constant attention... and a little bit of experimentation

I don't think so. They have to have the best economy because THEY ARE the economy. Without the marketplace, what's the point of an economy? Also, the Roving Clans can't declare war, and that is a huge problem. I didn't notice this, but if it's not there as an option, it needs to be... that the Roving Clans should be able to blackmail and/or utilize their ability to exclude others from the market place as a bargaining chip for diplomatic purposes.

Sir-Rogers wrote:
Are the people who voted for Vaulters even playing MP games? Because there is not a single vaulter out there.

I do not play MP games and I am guessing that the vast majority of people are playing single players. Against the IA, Vaulters allow a lot of greedy plays which is probably why they are that high in the poll.

Visko wrote:
I've found my economy to be the most broken with the Broken Lords believe it or not... The Vaulters appeared better, but that came so much later.



Basically every faction appears to level out after a few turns. Why? Because you immediately focus research on +Industry (everything in town builds significantly faster), +Food(town pop grows on its own), +Dust(big boost to dust). Almost idiotic it seems not to implement these ASAP into your first city. By the time they're half through, your Hero should be lvl2 and depending on who you are can also be heavily utilized. Then Merc Market to spend that dust on more Heroes. Meanwhile you should have your region explored out, and maybe a few ruins offered something decent if your lucky. When the 3 building techs finish + the founders memorial, start building cheap but useable units (Necrodrone > Forager, Marine >>>>>>>> Dawn Officer) and when research permits squeeze out Glassteel/Titanium mines. If you don't have enough Dust by the time you have 4 units on the field, try to squeeze more out and get another Hero. Put 1 hero in town, 1 on the army. Put the boroughs up now, or more units if for whatever reason you really need them.



Research strategic resources. Then research the research techs if necessary + parley/sewer. If for whatever reason your start location is HORRIBLE for science, then obviously just research a public library first. Era 2, immediately go for Weapons/Armor. Deck out your army with those saved up resources through Era 1. Win the game... against the AI anyways. Does battling vs. the AI even matter?





I'm not finding a single difference in any of the factions to be quite honest. However my game settings are:



Endless Difficulty

(Unimportant Game Speed)

(Unimportant Minor Faction Difficulty)

Low Anomalies

Low Strategic Resources

Low Luxuries



(Keep in mind I use these settings because I enjoy the thought of having to design units and armies for different purposes due to managing costs + it adds incredible depth to the game in the sense of "Where do I place my next city, and will they even connect?" Expanding is costly but choosing the regions in which you even WANT to control become a very important aspect of the game. What techs you want to research vary game to game, due to their value variability depending on map layout and your location, etc.)



And the game is always too easy. I find no reason really to go beyond 2-3 cities and I feel the game always be won at this point with any faction.



First of all, any faction can hire any Hero. This is intentional, but it just breaks any sense of difficulty or strategy in the game. But it's essentially Heroes that define a games economy.

I think that playing like this you miss the depht of the game.



It is as if you would start a small map on Civ and use your military to crush the opposition, like in a wargame. You would miss all the other things that make it an interesting 4x.



Of course beating the AI this way is trivial (even on Endless), as it occurs that the AI is still pretty young and have some flaws, like all AIs. It is also quite obvious that playing this way there is no really meaning to build an economy and choose strategic direction for it as the only thing that matter is "crushing the opposition asap".



If you want to enjoy the depht of the game and find difference between factions, I suggest you try a wonder victory. You will see that it is not at all easy, and that the game design is actually pretty interesting and rich, with a challenging AI, even on 'Serious'.

I've found my economy to be the most broken with the Broken Lords believe it or not... The Vaulters appeared better, but that came so much later.



Basically every faction appears to level out after a few turns. Why? Because you immediately focus research on +Industry (everything in town builds significantly faster), +Food(town pop grows on its own), +Dust(big boost to dust). Almost idiotic it seems not to implement these ASAP into your first city. By the time they're half through, your Hero should be lvl2 and depending on who you are can also be heavily utilized. Then Merc Market to spend that dust on more Heroes. Meanwhile you should have your region explored out, and maybe a few ruins offered something decent if your lucky. When the 3 building techs finish + the founders memorial, start building cheap but useable units (Necrodrone > Forager, Marine >>>>>>>> Dawn Officer) and when research permits squeeze out Glassteel/Titanium mines. If you don't have enough Dust by the time you have 4 units on the field, try to squeeze more out and get another Hero. Put 1 hero in town, 1 on the army. Put the boroughs up now, or more units if for whatever reason you really need them.



Research strategic resources. Then research the research techs if necessary + parley/sewer. If for whatever reason your start location is HORRIBLE for science, then obviously just research a public library first. Era 2, immediately go for Weapons/Armor. Deck out your army with those saved up resources through Era 1. Win the game... against the AI anyways. Does battling vs. the AI even matter?





I'm not finding a single difference in any of the factions to be quite honest. However my game settings are:



Endless Difficulty

(Unimportant Game Speed)

(Unimportant Minor Faction Difficulty)

Low Anomalies

Low Strategic Resources

Low Luxuries



(Keep in mind I use these settings because I enjoy the thought of having to design units and armies for different purposes due to managing costs + it adds incredible depth to the game in the sense of "Where do I place my next city, and will they even connect?" Expanding is costly but choosing the regions in which you even WANT to control become a very important aspect of the game. What techs you want to research vary game to game, due to their value variability depending on map layout and your location, etc.)



And the game is always too easy. I find no reason really to go beyond 2-3 cities and I feel the game always be won at this point with any faction.



First of all, any faction can hire any Hero. This is intentional, but it just breaks any sense of difficulty or strategy in the game. But it's essentially Heroes that define a games economy.

Propbuddha wrote:
However, currently the Roving Clans "Setseke Ho!" tactic exploit (Setseke Ho! Your cities and activate Luxury Boost & Empire Plans for cheap) allows you to get some powerful boosts. I assume this is not intended and will be patched out at some point though.

We're taking care of that little issue lol

Are the people who voted for Vaulters even playing MP games? Because there is not a single vaulter out there.



The RC has by far the best economy, but that's mainly due to their nature. The fast units let them scout quickly and settle quickly, for the best places. It is the agility of the faction combined with the keen eye and strategic thinking of its user. Vaulters are nowhere near RC when it comes to economy. Dervishes have 2.5x the starting hp of a marine, and they are backed up by a ranged hero. It's a very powerful combo to pacify and expand early.



Getting a strong economy up early is the most important part, as that will bring in everything else. Snowball everyone else in the game with a good early start. Nobody can do that like the RC.



Which is what's great. I love RC. Just the cheese/exploits need to be taken care of without changing the faction design.

Hello everyone!



Here is a new poll to vote and debate. This will help us to get and analyse your general feeling for balancing purposes

Please feel free to develop your thought and your vote if you want to. Bullet points are always welcome.



Thank you.

From high to low:



Vaulters : -50% expansion dissaproval, another free booster (and the extraction capacity to run it), and large bonus on units. Quite good. Passive science is decent too. Heroes are pretty bad, but you can always get another race



Roving Clans : Pretty decent. Would be extremely good if AI ever used marketplace. Moving cities is useless. Heroes are decent, although the 'trade during war' trait is a lackluster finale.



Wild Walkers : Production bonus isn't all that great, but production is currently the most powerful single fids. Heroes are decent as well.



Ardent Mages / Drakken : Neutral. I would consider these the baseline around which other economies are compared, since they don't really have anything special. Ardent Mages' pillars basically don't count (not useful, scale horribly, never upgrade), and drakken don't have much going on economically.



Necrophages - Cellulose Mutation is amazing. The - food hurts them though, and they don't have anything else synergizing with it.



Cultists : Leveling up to district level 2 eventually becomes pretty nice. However, it doesn't on its own make up for 1 city limit. They do get an extra pop and fids from a converted village, but the fids don't benefit from terrain boosters (eg dust on river), so they aren't as useful. Additionally, its too hard for them to defend their villages - if this were better, they might be more powerful. They do have the best economic hero, but anyone can use it.



Broken Lords - Inability to grow past early mid-game. Yeah they can conquer, but having to fully rely on conquest and opponents is a bad idea. Decent dust hero, recommended for each of their cities.

I think vaulters ability is very good, but I don't want to see it nerfed as well. Other faction abilities feel like they do nothing positive or even handicap you. They should be buffed instead. The only thing about vaulters affinity that should be fixed is -50% expansion disapproval. That's a bit too much and valuters can reach -100% with techs which means expansion is not constrained at all.

KrimsonVagus wrote:
Oh dear, I have a feeling that the Vaulters are gonna get nerfed hard in future patches/expansions

I hope the others just get buffed instead! don't want to see The Vaulters get nerfed. I like the factions to be as extreme as possible.

Oh dear, I have a feeling that the Vaulters are gonna get nerfed hard in future patches/expansions



Roving clans have pretty good economic abilities but they are not automated. You can take advantage of market exploits to be powerful with them, which requires your constant attention... and a little bit of experimentation

I think that Valuters tech are great and everything... but they only weakness is their hero. And they can hire cultist hero... and that moment it's over.

They need to just make that buldings more expensive and add more faction specific tech to other Factions. PLS add more faction specific tech.



But problem is that there are few tiers:

Valuters and Roving Clans

than mile after them are

Necrophages, Arden Mages, Wild Walkers and Cultist

next runners are Drakken

and right at the start of race there are standing Broken Lords with Cultists "only one city rule", Drakken's "healing" per dust and winter kill them completely.

They need repair to be just little broken, not completely bad.

Not just holy resource, but deep generator and winter shelter tech is a bit OP, esp when they're available early to mid game compared to other factions to have their heroes have inspirational leader and winter immunity traits which're available mid to end game

Nothing comes close to Vaulters at the moment.

tesb wrote:
vaulters due to holy resource mechanic can expand a lot more and/or have cities with higher happiness

Have to agree with this. The boost is huge once you get the boosters up. The Holy Resource booster needs to be something that is either less powerful or more expensive so it can't be run all of the time (like a Civ Golden Age).



However, currently the Roving Clans "Setseke Ho!" tactic exploit (Setseke Ho! Your cities and activate Luxury Boost & Empire Plans for cheap) allows you to get some powerful boosts. I assume this is not intended and will be patched out at some point though.

vaulters due to holy resource mechanic can expand a lot more and/or have cities with higher happiness