At the moment playing the cultists seems to be a endless razing game of razing other peoples cities. Then the area going neutral and then the enemy sending another settler in and then razing it again. It seems the cultists could escape this if there was a way to claim territory. Maybe a settler unit that rather than building a city puts up a big tower that does nothing except claim the area and expand your borders. It can be razed by other players in warfare. it could also allow the cultists to play an expansion victory. Maybe limit the amount of areas that can be claimed to having a certain size or number of districts in your capital because this claimed territory won't lower your approval so will need something in place to stop endless expansion.



What do people think?

The Cultists are really unique faction with their conversion mechanic. Played only one game with them so far but I really like the idea how their faction works. I think that giving them some kind of proxy town system would reduce their special style of play. It'd make them feel more like a generic faction using the same mechanics than everybody else.



However I don't see any reason not to enhance their gameplay. Instead of proxy towns how about something like utilizing the minor factions further? Like you'll be able to claim a region if you've converted all the minor faction huts in the actual region and at least one hut from each bordering region, balance according to need.

Cult claimed region could give some additional benefits to the minors inhabiting it as well. Something like this would emphasize the influence of the Cultists around a certain area. They're a really cool faction and I'd like to get that feeling of dread when meeting them. They're coming and there's no stopping them, those crazy f*ks are going to turn your own people against you, eventually..

nnwork wrote:
The Cultists are really unique faction with their conversion mechanic. Played only one game with them so far but I really like the idea how their faction works. I think that giving them some kind of proxy town system would reduce their special style of play. It'd make them feel more like a generic faction using the same mechanics than everybody else.



However I don't see any reason not to enhance their gameplay. Instead of proxy towns how about something like utilizing the minor factions further? Like you'll be able to claim a region if you've converted all the minor faction huts in the actual region and at least one hut from each bordering region, balance according to need.

Cult claimed region could give some additional benefits to the minors inhabiting it as well. Something like this would emphasize the influence of the Cultists around a certain area. They're a really cool faction and I'd like to get that feeling of dread when meeting them. They're coming and there's no stopping them, those crazy f*ks are going to turn your own people against you, eventually..

"I don't think they should have proxy towns, but let's make minor factions into proxy towns"



No flaw in that argument.



How to claim area as cultists: Put an army in it and murder settlers. As a side-note Cultists should get privateers for free, and be able to make their tributes into privateers.

Autocthon wrote:
"I don't think they should have proxy towns, but let's make minor factions into proxy towns"



No flaw in that argument.



How to claim area as cultists: Put an army in it and murder settlers. As a side-note Cultists should get privateers for free, and be able to make their tributes into privateers.

Well now, no need to be snide.

It was just a suggestion while thinking how to allow Cultists to achieve expansion victory. I see a difference in utilizing the minors to gain benefits compared to using a 'lesser settler'. Sure, in the end the effect would be somewhat similar as in you gain control of a region but how you obtain it is what makes it special. Of course, keeping the expansion victory condition in mind, it'd be doable in other ways too, like allowing it to trigger when you've converted 80% of all villages or something like that.

nnwork wrote:
Well now, no need to be snide.

It was just a suggestion while thinking how to allow Cultists to achieve expansion victory. I see a difference in utilizing the minors to gain benefits compared to using a 'lesser settler'. Sure, in the end the effect would be somewhat similar as in you gain control of a region but how you obtain it is what makes it special. Of course, keeping the expansion victory condition in mind, it'd be doable in other ways too, like allowing it to trigger when you've converted 80% of all villages or something like that.

Functionally identical is functionally identical. It's just be easier to have expansion victory for cultists be based on minor faction control if people want it enabled. I kind of like the fact that the cultists have no expansion victory. Makes them unique.



It's interesting that cultists can't claim area but can claim resources (for essentially free).

The easiest solution is to introduce a mechanic like this:

When cultists have converted all minor villages in a region, it is considered under their "control". They must all be destroyed to remove the control condition. So if you can control the required number of regions this way >> Expansion victory is possible



Of course, this feature must be applied to the Conversion trait itself, which means it will also apply to custom factions that use Conversion. Otherwise, could it be only for the Cultist affinity? That is debatable...

Autocthon wrote:


As a side-note Cultists should get privateers for free, and be able to make their tributes into privateers.

I agree. We must be able to make the tribute units into privateers. It is a logical feature imo



EDIT: The faction trait "Weapons of the enemy" is responsible for Cultists not being able to capture cities. I played a custom faction with Cultist affinity and removed "Weapons of the Enemy" so that I can keep captured cities in my control (although you can no longer raze cities you capture for some reason)

Autocthon wrote:
Functionally identical is functionally identical. It's just be easier to have expansion victory for cultists be based on minor faction control if people want it enabled. I kind of like the fact that the cultists have no expansion victory. Makes them unique.



It's interesting that cultists can't claim area but can claim resources (for essentially free).

Functionally identical? Do you mean that because a region is claimed, it doesn't matter how the claim is achieved? It's like saying that Necrophages and Wild Walkers have functionally identical ways of increasing their worker population, they both use food.. Really, I find it a bit different to hold control over a region by having a single city with garrisons and such like than maintaining the control status of minor villages around the nearby areas.

Think about this: Cultists come and convert a village within a region you hold control over. This in turn gives the Cultists control of the region next to you. Now, in order to settle to that nearby area, you'd have to burn down your own village so the Cultists lose grasp of it! Devious.



Mind you, I don't see it as any great need for the Cultists to get an ability like this. They're fine as is, or at the very least there's more pressing issues to address with the game. I like the Cultists too and would like to have them keep their fairly unique style. I just don't know if giving them a means to claim a region in one way or other would automatically reduce that uniqueness. Think it's more about how (if) it's done since it'd help to deal with the ease of enemies resettling to a razed area. Settlers have a nasty habit of running away from combat and dropping down a city on their turn if pressed hard.



Privateers, why not?

nnwork wrote:
Functionally identical? Do you mean that because a region is claimed, it doesn't matter how the claim is achieved? It's like saying that Necrophages and Wild Walkers have functionally identical ways of increasing their worker population, they both use food.. Really, I find it a bit different to hold control over a region by having a single city with garrisons and such like than maintaining the control status of minor villages around the nearby areas.

Think about this: Cultists come and convert a village within a region you hold control over. This in turn gives the Cultists control of the region next to you. Now, in order to settle to that nearby area, you'd have to burn down your own village so the Cultists lose grasp of it! Devious.



Mind you, I don't see it as any great need for the Cultists to get an ability like this. They're fine as is, or at the very least there's more pressing issues to address with the game. I like the Cultists too and would like to have them keep their fairly unique style. I just don't know if giving them a means to claim a region in one way or other would automatically reduce that uniqueness. Think it's more about how (if) it's done since it'd help to deal with the ease of enemies resettling to a razed area. Settlers have a nasty habit of running away from combat and dropping down a city on their turn if pressed hard.



Privateers, why not?

Functionally identical to having a "claiming tower" not functionally identical to an actual city.

Considering the fact that if a Cultist claimed a region then any factions wishing to take what is essentially empty territory would have to declare war to do so, it would be an incredibly over-powered ability. I believe that just keeping a small garrison occupying a region is more than satisfactory to defend your villages and land from others.