Hi, I would love to implement this feature. Right now the high initiative, high damage archers are invulnerable. Please make them get counterattacked by other archers.

Say it as it is, you have been struggeling with the Wild Walkers.. so have I You have the decreased ranged att dmg medalion tho, make sure to use it.

Thoto79 wrote:
Say it as it is, you have been struggeling with the Wild Walkers.. so have I You have the decreased ranged att dmg medalion tho, make sure to use it.

There is a level 3 ring (looks like silver knuckles)... grants sharp sense 3 (40% ranged def) and improved vision 3. This way you could have both def and damage mitigation.

No, I have been decimating the enemy with high initiative archers. I hope to balance it out. Archers would absolutely fire a defensive shot.

crossmack wrote:
No, I have been decimating the enemy with high initiative archers. I hope to balance it out. Archers would absolutely fire a defensive shot.

I've decimated Wild Walker high damage/high init armies with nothing more than Vaulter Titans with regen and sharp senses. High damage/high initiative doesn't mean much if your shots don't really do much damage.

Titans come rather late to the game, they are slow and their special ability is strike back. They are possibily one of the worst counters to archers you can pick. If you want a counter to archers with high initiative, you want to dish out damage quickly since they die to a fart, you want cavalry. They get ranged slayer, they can close in distance in a turn and they get the charge bonus. You can usually one shot archers with disposable cavalry.

I think regardless of whether you are using titans or dawn officers, the point is that it is possible to deal with high initiative ranged units. As long as your units have high defense and movement and decent damage, they are pretty in pretty good shape. I think part of the issue is that the initiative gear focus on initiative bonus is perhaps more focused than the focus of other gear on other stats. But I still don't think that (at least in single player) ranged units are that much superior to other choices to be considered imbalanced.



As to the OP, I think adding a ranged counter attack to ranged units might actually make them worse, since now they will waste their attack a counter which is probably not who you wanted them to attack in the first place. The only time the counter would be better would be if they would die before being able to complete the order, in which case, they would become even more powerful than melee units who would simply die without a chance for a counter.

Northwoods wrote:
I think regardless of whether you are using titans or dawn officers, the point is that it is possible to deal with high initiative ranged units. As long as your units have high defense and movement and decent damage, they are pretty in pretty good shape. I think part of the issue is that the initiative gear focus on initiative bonus is perhaps more focused than the focus of other gear on other stats. But I still don't think that (at least in single player) ranged units are that much superior to other choices to be considered imbalanced.

This is my point exactly. You can counter high init ranged units if you take some time to equip your units correctly or have access to the type of unit you need. Several minor factions also have cavalry if you don't play a faction that has them. There are options if you care to use them.

Just like the others said, Dawn Officers and Centaurs are my personal favorite counters to Rangers

Just give them axes, shields and the iron knuckles thingie >> high defense and range resistance and Ranged Slayer perk >> gg



If I can't compete with initiative, I just give my units high damage with Titanium instead. Rangers without shields can't counterattack so you can still kill them with 2-3 hits this way



EDIT: We could give some short range units the "Range Counter" ability, such as the Jotus and some Support units... This will produce an interesting new Class of Anti-Ranger Rangers (might need some balancing tho)

Well the problem here is that if we are discussing playing vs the AI in its current shape, they dont really use ranged units and when they do, they dont upgrade them much. However playing vs a human with archers that have been able to level up and have access to high tier weapons. Even with the knuckles they are devastating given the amount of attack the get to have. Combine this with smart placement of units again from a human player and if they manage to build a shield or a chokepoint around the archers, you are pretty dead. Specially vs wild walkers with +1 range from hero. Those things are ridiculous they can shoot you from 5 tiles away.

A new remark about the archers :



- I just been rushed (in fact, i attacked an army near from 4 sqaures of my capital, but it is not much different) at turn 3 by an army of one hero and 2 wild walkers archers. I was Exilied and got 2 soliders, the hero and 2 milicians.

With two more milicians I thought I would won. But I have been wiped out with just one archer lost by the ennemy.



- The reason of this it's archers can move & fire (hit & run). So they could attack, then move back. My units could fire only one turn on two (and they did not have initiative, because ww archers have the best initiative of the whole game).





I think it's not normal to be rushed turn 3 like that. In the same idea of reducing the power of the archers, I wonder if we should not reduce their power, by this : any movement cancel them the faculty to fire (it avoid the hit & run).



I am not sure it's a good idea but I am sure it's really not normal to be over dominated by the starting force of a player who can attack you and win easily at turn 3. ^^