Logo Platform
logo amplifiers simplified

Mykara's assimilation effects from overgrown cities are too weak + Suggestion of enhanced effects

Copied to clipboard!
6 years ago
Feb 7, 2019, 2:23:34 PM

1. List of assimilation effects


Wild WalkersSoul of the Forest+20% Defense on Forest tiles
+1 on Forest tiles during Summer
Broken LordsPenance of Dust+1 on Terrain with
+1% Health Regen per Pacified Village on Empire
VaultersDwellers of the Deep+1 on Terrain with
Immunity to Food an Approval Reduction effects on Cities due to Winter
NecrophagesMight of the Masses+5% Health Regen on Empire
-25% from Military Upkeep on Empire
Ardent MagesHints of Transcendence+1 per Population on Cities
+5 on Cities
+15 on Cities
Roving ClansProsperous Bloom50% Cost Reduction on Commercial and Research Agreements
+10% and Income Bonus on Trade Routes
DrakkenTribes and Tribute100% Cost Reduction on Minor Faction Assimilation
CultistsStrength of Isolation+75 Fortification on Main City
+50 XP when recruiting a Unit
ForgottenShadows and Dust+10 Security on Cities
+2 Infiltration Point on Infiltrated Heroes
+50% from Pillage
AllayiSwift Chill-100% Margin of Error on Winter Prediction
-25% Cost on Diplomatic Declarations during Winter
-25% Cost on Diplomatic Negotiations during Summer
MorgawrSong of the SeaFree Embark/Disembark
+1 on Sea, River, and Lake Tiles
+1 on Sea, River, and Lake Tiles
KapakuKeepers of the Flame+10% Damage on Volcanic Tiles
Able to predict Dust Eclipse
MykaraLiving Industry10% Industry bonus based on Food production on your City




Source : https://endlesslegend.gamepedia.com/Mykara


- I know there are already few topics on the forum, but I tell myself that since we talk about it, it's time to talk about it again, to speak about all the subject. : p



- What are the Mykara? They are an alternative to Cultists. These are two basically aggressive factions. Cultists gain stockpiles by razing enemy cities. The Mykara do not win stokcpiles, but they win the FIDSI production of the overgrown effect, but above all, they gain an assimilation effect.


- From a lore point of view, one could see the Mykara as a conscious plant species, which seeks to absorb the knowledge of other factions to mutate and become more powerful.


- But the problem is that in the actual application of this aggressive strategy is not at all at the level of what it should be. Clearly, the assimilation bonuses are far too weaks to encourage the player to start a war with the factions present. Indeed, if the cultists destroy the civilizations one by one, the Mykara should logically seek to assimilate the bonus assimilation of each faction on Auriga. But it is much more dangerous to do because it consists in making war on several factions, at the same time on overlapping periods. Cultists just have to eliminate one faction, then move on to the other, without worries.


- Really, the assimilation bonuses are attractive enough to push the player to declare war ? Conquer a city and protect it during the process of assimilation ?


For me the answer is clearly no. The bonuses of assimilation are clearly insufficient, and they do not correspond to this philosophy of succession of fast aggressive wars, with teleport of units by surprise, that the Mykara are supposed to make.



2. Why assimilation effects are too weaks


First reason : the effects of return do not apply on city, and not on fungal bloom :


- First of all, for me the very first problem is that performance bonuses on hexagon, apply only on the city, not on the fungal bloom. For example, if you have likened a city to Wild Walkers, you are supposed to have +1 industry on a forest box during the summer. But if it does not apply on your city, it has very little interest. You may not have forests, and then forest huts will have little in all. While if it applied to all fungal blooms, the likelihood that this industry performance bonus would be useful increases.


- Moreover, from a logical point of view, it is logical that the buildings that increase the efficiency of hexagons only work on the farms of the city, and not on the fungal bloom. On the other hand, an effect of assimilation should apply also on the fungal bloom because they are extensions of the vegetable entity that are the Mykara, entity which assimilated the faction of the wild Walkers. No need for buildings, the know-how is assimilated to a global level.


Second reason : some effects of assimilation are almost useless :


There I put aside the problem of performance that only applies to city and I speak of other bonuses.


- Broken Lords : + 1% Health Regen for Pacified Village on Empire.

Interest free bonus since the Mykara can only have one city, so they can only have between 1 to 3 villages pacified on empire at most. That is + 3% to the regeneration of life ...


- Vaulters : Immunity to Food an Approval.

Bonus rather cosmetic. The food penalty is -1 per farm during the winter. The expansion penalty during the winter does not exist, or perhaps with a special winter effect. And anyway, the Mykara have only one city, they have maximum happiness for the whole game...


- Ardent Mages : +15 on Cities.

No interest since the Mykara have only one city. Suddenly they have a very fast int he game, the maximal happiness level...


- Roving Clans : -50% Cost Reduction Influence on Commercial and Research Agreements. + 10% Dust and Income Science Bonus on Trade Routes.

Two bonuses without any interest ! The Mykara do not have a commercial route since they have only one city. There is no point in looking for this technology with one city. In addition overgrowth cities can not have a commercial route. In short, a bonus idea completely unsuited to Mykara.


- Drakkens : 100% Cost Reduction on Minor Faction Assimilation.

Good. Yeah. Cool. If you like to play the musical chair with your minor factions, why not. Otherwise, no interest. Changing a minor faction rarely occurs in a game. It costs 15 of influence for the first, 50 for the second, and 150 for the third. In short, a thematic bonus with the Drakkens, but cosmetic in practice.


- Cultists : +75 Fortification Fortification on Main City.


+75 Fortification is a joke. It's nothing.


- Allayi : -25% Influence Cost on Diplomatic Declarations during Winter. -25% Influence Cost on Diplomatic Negotiations during Summer.


Another very cosmetic effect.



3. The effects of assimilation that I propose


Considering what I have shown,

Considering that in a game of 6 players, it will be difficult to quickly assimilate one or two cities,

Considering that the Mykara are a faction of aggressive philosophy but that derives no beneficial effect,


Here are some more powerful bonuses that I imagine :


- First, all performance boost effects (like +1 on Forest titles) also affect Fungal Blooms (if technically possible). If you have 20 fungal bloom improvements with forest on it, it's already a late game. And what would it give you ? +20 industry. Really not an overpowered thing.


- And now, the enhanced effects I image :



Wild WalkersSoul of the Forest+20% +40% Defense on Forest tiles
+1 on Forest tiles during Summer
Broken LordsPenance of Dust+1 on Terrain with
+1% Health Regen per Pacified Fungalised Village on Empire
Mykarans units heal a fraction of their health when they kill a unit in close combat (like Broken Lords units)
VaultersDwellers of the Deep+1 on Terrain with
Immunity to Food an Approval Reduction effects on Cities due to Winter
+50 % speed rate of strategic ressources extraction
NecrophagesMight of the Masses+5% Health Regen on Empire
-50% (not-25% ) from Military Upkeep on Empire
Ardent MagesHints of Transcendence+1 per Population on Cities
+5 on Cities
+15 on Cities
Gain acess to pillars/spell Ardent Mages unique technologies (Except Enervation because stun spell is overpowered)
Or
Gain the science pillar and the speed pillar (techniquely more easy to implement ?)
Or
All Mykaras units gain the Incadescent Fire ability (+X% attack for the corresponding X% life the unit has no more
(Techniquely easy to do, maybe)
Roving ClansProsperous Bloom50% Cost Reduction on Commercial and Research Agreements
+10% and Income Bonus on Trade Routes

-50% Mercenary hiring cost and mercenary upkeep
-50% Hiring cost of Heros at the Market
DrakkenTribes and Tribute100% Cost Reduction on Minor Faction Assimilation
Gain Endless Excavation Trait (+2 science and +3 influence on ruins. Must work on fungalised ruins off course, if not it's crap)
Gain Advanced Diarchy trait
Can one more assimilation slot, for one more minor faction


CultistsStrength of Isolation+75 Fortification on Main City
+50 XP when recruiting a Unit

+400 Fortification on Main City.
+100 XP when recruiting a Unit.
+2 influence per turn per fungalised village owned.

(Cultist bonus has to be very good.
Becausecultist city is very hard to conquier : high fortification and some units. You can't "hit&run" a Cultist city).
ForgottenShadows and Dust+10 Security on Cities
+2 +6 Infiltration Point on Infiltrated Heroes
+50% from Pillage

Gain two traits : Expert Forager (Gains loot when destroying a neutral village) and Practiced Pillage

(+1 Fortification Damage per turn on units and -1 Dust on military upkeep of armies)


Can steal technologies (not reducing science) with infiltrated spies, like the Forgotten do

AllayiSwift Chill-100% Margin of Error on Winter Prediction
-25% Cost on Diplomatic Declarations during Winter
-25% Cost on Diplomatic Negotiations during Summer
Immunity to winter movement penalty during winter for Mykara units
Gain Battlefield Symbiosis : +15% Initiative per Morale on units

MorgawrSong of the SeaFree Embark/Disembark
+1 on Sea, River, and Lake Tiles
+1 on Sea, River, and Lake Tiles
+2 movement speed for any land unit embarqued on sea
Can use Cat's Spawn power
KapakuKeepers of the Flame+10% Damage on Volcanic Tiles
Able to predict Dust Eclipse
+1 science and +1 industry on volcanic terrain
Endless Fascination (+3 science per ruin (fungalised too off course) and science gained for each ruins searched)
MykaraLiving Industry10% Industry bonus based on Food production on your City
Double the natural regeneration of health point (from +10 % to +20 % I guess)
+50 % attack for any of your units against Urkans



What do you think about this ?

0Send private message
6 years ago
Feb 7, 2019, 2:43:35 PM

While I agree some of the more useless Assimilation bonuses could use a buff, I would advise to be careful here. Mykara from their incentive structure are already a very military focussed faction. Creating yet another snowbally military faction (similar to the Necros and VERY similar to the cultists) should not be the priority imho. I think its better in general to buff the baseline strength of the Mykara instead making everything revolve around Symbiosis. Please also keep in mind: Not everyone play competitive multiplayer ;).

0Send private message
6 years ago
Mar 16, 2019, 12:01:35 AM

4. The new effects of assimilation that I propose


- Rereading my suggestions, I realize that it is insufficient to buffer the effects of assimilation.


- In my opinion, the effects of assimilation should be a key feature of the Mykara. Otherwise the Mykara will be only an alternative version of the Cultists, only seeking to conquer the cities, to have more FIDSI.


- It is necessary that the effects of assimilation are a game changer. Something significant, which changes the way of playing the player.


- I gave generally 3 main effects to each assimation effects.

- The economic bonus should works on fungal bloom too. If not, it does not worth it. As in some situation, you won't have forest in your only city, or dust land, etc.

- Each faction is designed to give a military focused effect, or an economic focused effect.

- Here are the new effects that I propose :



Wild WalkersSoul of the ForestMilitary focus : Makes the Mykara deadliers in the forest region. Make them efficient ambushers in forest !

Forest Resonance 1 (+100% to the bonus provided by forest. Which basiquely double the +50 % defense bonus in forest) for Mykara units & Mykara heros.
Camouflage for Mykara units & Mykara Heros. Camouflage give stealth if your unit is in forest (not outside).
+1 on Forest tiles.
Broken LordsPenance of Dust

Economic Focus : Makes the Mykara more efficient to farm dust. And make the Pillage strategy much more profitable.

+100% from Pillage on empire (Absorbing Broken Lords dust sense make the pillage much more profitable for Mykaras. Works on any unit, not only the Mykara units).
+3 on Population working .

+1   on Terrain with .

Vaulters / MezariDwellers of the DeepEconomic Focus : More strategic ressources can help for economic buildings, and off course too for military purpose.

+50 % speed rate of strategic ressources extraction.
Immunity to Food and Approval Reduction effects on Cities due to Winter (Not a great bonus, especially approval reduction, as you already have max happienss... But okay).
+1 on Terrain with .
NecrophagesMight of the MassesMilitary Focus : Heavy military focus from the assimilation of the most militaristic face of Endless Legend. Disease + disease immunity makes Mykara armies more dangerous.

+5% Health Regen on Empire.
-50%   from Military Upkeep on Empire.
Disease and Disease immunity (like any necros units like foragers) for Mykara units & heros.
Ardent MagesHints of TranscendenceMilitary Focus : Rain of fire symbolise the spell mastery acquired from mages. It makes the Ipotanes a stronger unit (now it suxx in most situations). Spell mastery is an obvious feature.

Mykara Ipotanes units gain Rain of Fire capacity : Deals normal damage to the target. Deals 50% of damage to opponents next to target.
Gain access to all Ardent's Mages spell, except Enervation (because stun is very overpowerd). These spell are at Level 2 arcane spell (not the level 1, too weak).
+1 on Population working .

Roving ClansProsperous BloomEconomic Focus : Assimilating Roving Clans make heroes and mercenary at lot cheaper, allowing an intense usage of them. The trade roads are too a lot more useful, which is useful if you have several overgrown cities in the map. And no need to have peace is made to make your trade roads actually working even if you are at war.

-50% Mercenary hiring cost and mercenary upkeep.
-25 % Hiring cost of Heros at the Market.
All city owned, including overgrowth cities, have +2 trade roads (so overgrown city goes from 0 to 2 trade roads, and Mykara capital from +2 to +4). And you don't need to be at Peace to establish trade roads with connected foreign cities (act like Black Market Capacity, from the Roving Clans heros).
DrakkenTribes and TributeEconomic Focus : Drakkens are in the background very good with minor factions and influence. That's where I focused the bonus.

+1 Assimilation slot (one more minor neutral faction can be assimilated) and +100% Cost Reduction on Minor Faction Assimilation (Assimilation is completley free, allowing quick change of minor units production).
Gain Endless Excavation Trait (+2 science and +3 influence on ruins. Must work on fungalised ruins off course, if not it's crap and another bonus has to be chosen).
+25 on overgrown city (+1 per each), and empire plans cost -25 % in price.
CultistsStrength of IsolationMilitary Focus : Cultist are very militaristic. Good at using neutral units. Assiegers. And Cultist have very good defense capacities. So their assimilation bonus should be higher than others bonus.

+200 Fortification on Main City City and City Guard 2 (+4 moral from city tile) for all units (mykara or non mykara).

+3 Influence per turn per fungalised village + Fungalised villages periodiquely spawn units for Mykara (same mechanism as the Converted village).
OR (if the second idea is not possible)
+3 Influence per turn per fungalised village + Neutral factions units used have +50 % attack and cost -20 % industry cost to produce.

All units (Mykaras units, any heros, and the neutral factions) gain City Breaker 3 (+12 Fortification Damage per turn) and all produced units have +40 XP.
ForgottenShadows and DustMilitary Focus : Bonus I suggest are obivous. Help pillaging (very cool feature, rarely used), helping infiltration and helping security are logical.

+20 Security on Cities (and "Cities" mean CITY for Mykaras) and +6 Infiltration Point on Infiltrated Heroes.
+100% from Pillage on empire (Forgottens are existential pillagers).

Mykara units & Mykara heros gain two traits : Expert Forager (Gains loot when destroying a neutral village) and Practiced Pillage

(+1 Fortification Damage per turn on units and -1 Dust on military upkeep of armies).

Can steal technologies (not reducing science action, which is pretty useless) with infiltrated spies, like the Forgotten do.
AllayiSwift ChillEconomic Focus : Strong focus on core Allayis features : Winter, Pearls and Skyfins. Skyfin are a very interesting creature and I like the idea that Mykara, who are nature oriented faction. They can then build Skyfin by symbiosis with Allayis (or fusion we could say).

-100% Margin of Error on Winter Prediction and Immunity to winter movement penalty during winter for Mykara units & Mykara heros.
-50% on pearl cost about winter grace technologies and pearl equipement (but not improvement because it would make winter tower spawn very cheap).
Can build Skyfins.
MorgawrSong of the SeaMilitary Focus : Purely military focus linked with water with Morgawr. Nearly no economic bonus. A very specialised assimilation bonus.

Gain Embark/Disembark tech if they dont have and +2 on Sea, River, and Lake Tiles (pretty useless for Mykara) and +80 XP for any naval unit produced.

Can use Cat's Spawn power (very tricky and amusing feature to have. Expansive but can be usefull in particular situation). Gain acces to Morgawt Totem quest technology. Totem are pretty rare to see in game. An underexplotied feature. If Mykara assimmilate Morgawr, then why not their Totem Black Magic ? The tech is named Dust-Mind Decoupling.

Mykara's units & Mykara's heros gain Amphibian trait (Reduces movement cost on Rivers to 0.25, -1 Movement Speed and -1 Battle Movement). Note that this trait is not entirely good as it reduce of -1 speed of Mykara units. But on Rivers, they are very fast.  

KapakuKeepers of the FlameMilitary Focus : It's not easy to make Kapaku interesting, as all their features are around volcanos. I added a reduction of military upkeep, to reflect their militaristic nature (they can gain no golem upkeep on their early faction quest ligne).

Ash Breather trait for all Mykara units and Heros (can regenerate life on Ash). +10% Damage on Volcanic Tiles. Cosmetic bonus, not useful in reality.

Stargazers trait (see Wiki for what it brings : https://endlesslegend.gamepedia.com/Kapaku but it basiquely improve Conflux effects and make a perfect prediction of Eclypse).

+2 science and +2 industry on volcanic terrain (as always, include overgrowth city or fungal blooms) and -25%   from Military Upkeep on Empire.
MykaraLiving IndustryEconomic Focus : Very rare event, it would requires a custom faction with Overgrowth city trait. But okay let's say this ok bonus.

10% Industry bonus based on Food production on your Cities and +3   on Population working   .
All units gain Urkan Slayer 2 capacity (+50% Damage dealt to Urkans).
Double the natural regeneration of health point (from +10 % to +20 % I guess).
Updated 6 years ago.
0Send private message
5 years ago
Jul 2, 2019, 10:52:33 AM

I don't think you understand the problem with the Mykaran assimilation bonus, you've correctly identified it as one of the source problems but the issue cannot be solved just by making the assimilation cooler. The whole problem with the assimilation mechanic is that it's a bonus that is called a "win more" bonus; it helps you win more when you're already winning and doesn't do shit when you're losing, or just not winning yet. It's the sort of "you can rub your ass in your opponents face after you've beaten him" sort of bonus, it doesn't help you win the game, it just gives you bonuses after you've essentially won already. If you're at the point when you're conquering your opponents cities, you've already essentially won. The way combat and siege works in EL is that once you destroy the armies of the enemy, you can do anything and there's absolutely no point in discontinuing the war until you've conquered absolutely everything unless another empire attacks you and forces you to fight on another front. Don't get me wrong, I think the Mykara bonuses are rather lame and half-assed, so making them more cool is something I'm all for, but what you're proposing wouldn't solve the core issue.


The nature of a 4X is that you invest into economic infrastructure and expand your influence, that is the core of any 4X game; everything is an investment that will profit you in the long term. You lose production time you could've used building up your military when you construct Mill Foundry, but in the long run that Mill Foundry will help you build more stuff, just to give the most obvious example. Mykara as a faction has a very limited opportunity to invest in more production due to having only one city, and picking suboptimal tiles over time on areas that you can't really control is extremely limited in its investment value.


I really don't have any quick answers as to how to address the Mykaran problem, but one suggestion I would make would be to allow them to upgrade their overgrowths, granting them defensive values, expanding on their exploitation radius or simply the ability to spread to nearby tiles with a food investment, creating sort of "pseudo cities." One ide would be that once you've grown your expansions enough, they'd count as cities for the purposes of Territorial control, and you could garrison troops in them and they'd be able to generate militia units and have a fortification value.


As far as assimilation goes, I like your suggestions, BUT I'd like to add to them so that assimilation shouldn't happen instantly, you'd have to control the rebelling city and put forward a food investment to gradually assimilate the city over time. After assimilation you should be able to freely move around the pops of the city, even if the FIDSI yields would go to your main city. These assimilated cities would otherwise function similarly to the upgraded overgrowth, you could, for a food investment, expand and improve upon them. Traditional city improvements could remain as is. For the bonuses, it should also be an investment, so that once you assimilate a city, at first all you get is the additional FIDSI yield and territorial control, BUT, you could deepen the assimilation and gain VARIOUS bonuses over time, EACH faction could offer both military AND economic bonuses, both gained separately through deepening the assimilation. For example, Broken Lords could give you the ability to heal units instantly with Dust for their Military upgrade. Deepening the assimilation process could eventually allow you to even grow more pops in the assimilated cities. The way deepening the assimilation could work is if you gain assimilation points for every assimilated pop, meaning that you gain bonuses faster the more cities you have assimilated of the same faction.

0Send private message
?

Click here to login

Reply
Comment

Characters : 0
No results
0Send private message