This one actually kind of troubles me, but maybe im only a little weird at this point. Btw. I love your game.

Its actually the first time i´m active in a forum because i get the impression that you care and i want to make a wonderfull game to be perfect.





There are some technologies that only provide an advance on a specific terrain. You know what i mean. The best but not the only examples are technologies for rivers and seas. These are actually quite strong but not every city profits from them. Some citys just dont have a forest or rivers or seatiles or strategic ressources. So its senseless to build the specific buildings. And its annoying. These buildiung buttons are there for the rest of the game respectively 600 turns, every time when i look at this city i would think things like: "Hey i could build... ohh wait its not worth the trouble in this city..." sometimes followed by: "Or is it?... Lets have a look. No it really is not..."

I believe there are more people like me. They like to max. out the city and its uncomfortable to leave buildings unbuild. Even if they don´t pay off at all. And its not only one building per city. There can be 5 or 6. Trading of technologies is cheap after all. Cheap enough to do it even if only the half of your citys profit.



The first solution to this issue, if you would like to believe me that it is one, would be: Dont show a building which doesnt pay off. For example, if the effect of a building wouldn´t apply to at least 1 tile per number of districts (or whatever number suits you) it is not shown. This might also be a solution for the thematic of unspecialized cities, i read about in the forums earlier. The higher you make the number the more selective it is. Its like the oologic nursery of the drakken only for more buildings. It shouldnt apply to the basic era one buildings though. They are to important to strengthen a citys weakpoint. This is the easier one, but not so interesting.



The better solution, even though its more difficult to implement, would be to give an option to the player. The Ability to give a cityspecific veto on a building. Rightclick on a building in the constructionwindow and it moves away.

Out of sight, out of mind. If he wants to find it later he still can. because it moved in another section of the consturctionwindow, below the units. Its a section for the unpopular choices for this city, right next to burning it down ;-)

This second option is individual for each city. This city doesnt have rivers? Ok just rightclick on the riverspecific buildings and you wont see them again unless you want to (by scrolling down). Maybe they are even only shown when you maximize the constructionwindow. I think the people would build much more selective with an option like that.



With a little tuning this could even turn in an interessting new mechanism and encourage to specialize the citys. For example:

A buildings that is unuseful in this city will be rightclicked from the player. By doing so the buildingbutton for this building would vanish and a little number appears on the button where you can maximize the constructionwindow.

This number shows a 1 because its one building that stays unbuild. Which also means that this city will receive a bonus of 1% (maybe 2% would be better to make it attractive) on its highest ressource.

To prevent an abuse the building will be locked for 10 turns. And to prevent an accidently locked building it would need two rightclicks. One to mark the building and one to confirm your veto on it.



I hope you like my idea. Maybe you already guessed, that this idea developed while i was writing.

At first i only wanted to get rid of the icons that disturbed me, but then i thought it could be done sth. usefull with them.

The way i just presented to you could even be a new kind of perimeter for each city. The grade of specialization. AND its even logical to a certain degree.

If there is no advanced laboratory in this city, where would this people work insetad? Thats right: The biggest concern hires more workers. There is always work to do.



Thank you for reading. Comments and Thoughs are very welcome.

Write if you like the idea, or see any reasons why it would be bad.



EvilMage

Hi,



I´m also not very firmed here, but maybe you like my comment.



Yes, this is just frustrating: You look at your city, search out for the best building choice, then can forget it a few rounds, and then must REuse your thoughts for the same thing. And that, although the choice is obvious or irrelevant! But you MUST re-do the whole thing, because you WANT the best choice. It`s like work... :P



Personally I like your idea for a "trashcan for all silly building choices. So I have less frustation out of this optimizing... And have more time for the "interesting" stuff.

I also want to build every building in a city, even it`s not worth it. And the ressources for buildings come from the cities itself, so "Damn, increase difficulty!" isn`t an argument. I think?



Yours sincerely,

shreddar

Hello!



Firstly I will commend EvilMage for participating in this forum, and giving thoughtful input.

The idea for a building trashcan is an interesting one, and I am pulled in several directions about it.



I understand Amplitude's decision to include terrain specific bonuses, if not of the flavor, then for the variation in game mechanics.

Endless Legend is highly customizable (maps, factions, victory types) and so buildings you may not have used could serve as an indication for areas of the game that you haven't fully explored. For example, the sea bonus buildings will be far more useful on island maps, playing as a custom faction that benefits from several dust income sources.



That said, the trashcan would serve as a way to clean up those situationally useless buildings such as dust filtration (river bonus) playing as cultists in a territory with no river. There is absolutely 0 chance of you being able to make use of it, so why not throw it away?



Should there be bonus (even a small one) for throwing away buildings? Im not so sure. There doesn't seem to be a way to justify that on a game design level but there is some founding on a lore/flavor based level. After all, the absence of a dock may indeed be a reason for an emphasis on seed storage. It would also help to add a balance to technologies that have one building you need and another that you don't. It would add just one more button to the interface, and we all know where it would go (right next to the bar that you click to expand the building list). Then again, if the bonus of throwing away a building is marginal (and it should be) then is it really worth it to add this new mechanic? It almost seams that this change would necessitate a large amount of work, for a payoff that is hardly noticeable, and aesthetically insignificant.



I really like the thought but I think you have a little more convincing to do. Just my 2 cents.



Luke

Hey,



now I reflected over the whole idea and I think, well...



The possibility to order your citizen to produce or make science, dust, etc. replaces almost a trashcan. If you cannot build something useful, you can order your citizens to do other stuff. And the buildable things are so few... I think it doesn`t need many thoughts.



Yes, it`s very boring to make the same obvious choice again and again and again, for each of your cities... But I think a trashcan doesn`t solve this, because there are too few "trashable" choices.

EKUL wrote:




Then again, if the bonus of throwing away a building is marginal (and it should be) then is it really worth it to add this new mechanic? It almost seams that this change would necessitate a large amount of work, for a payoff that is hardly noticeable, and aesthetically insignificant.



Luke

Hey Luke. You are right of course for the outcome only to be a very small change in balancing.

Thats very important to me, because i wouldnt like to interfere in any balance.

But can you tell how much work it would need? I don´t even want a new button or menü.

Only the abilty to move the buildingoption down below. To be locked and the Specialization-Buff would be a feature.



Here another reply for shreddar. At the Moment it will be an insignificant change. If you know you have the trashcan choice and could even profit from it, suddenly many researches become more attractive.

Besides of the faktor, that it annoys me to have those useless options lying arround.

I bet one of the main criterias for the research at the Moment is: How many citys can make a use of this?

While the criteria should be: What do i need most? Or: What do i want to play?

A Trashcan. Especially a slightly profitable one would open the way to let your playstyle become much more variable.

As it is. The terrain kind of dictates some of your choices.

With this article i merely try to make those researches more attraktive to me.



The Ability to order your population is actually a sad replacement for a trashcan if you consider, that exactly this would limit your choices in research.

If i research the dust depository for example. This is a very strong building!! Very strong. But why should i research it, when i only plan to build it in two of my cities.

To make good use of it, i should build it everywhere, and then again i have to put workers on it to make use of it.

So i would research this building with broken lords and roving calns only.

I would argue that in 4X "feeling" is much more important than real mathematical balance.



Those buildings that only work on water are relatively cheap and give good bonuses. Perhaps they're less effective to research than boring building you can build anywhere. But they give character to a city and race. Unless those are utterly broken it's fine. On the other hand have a problem with Roving Clans travelling cities - I never see any reason to do it even though it sounds cool.



It seems that you have to leave a signature in this thread.



Your sincerely,

ilitarist

@ilitarist: Hey, everything`s math, my friend You cannot enjoy a broken game, even if it`s broken because of the "FEELING" A game can feel right, but it`s another question, if it`s actual FUN.

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Hey Evilmage,

this sounds so good: The "bonus" trashcan equals the advantage of the buildings out, so each one, even the research is attractive. I think it makes everything viable, like in a sandbox game.

I don`t know how the devs react to this, because they made the different races: They punch you to a directed strategy (of building,researching). So maybe that`s a little bit wanted(?): Detecting the useful buildings from the useless.



Personally I would like the see more options to customize the factions...