So, I'll open up by saying I'm not a great EL player. This is actually my first 4X game ever, and the Hard AI murders me up and down the map still. But, I feel like the Megapole is absurdly powerful for how early you can get it.



It is very early in the game, being Era 2, and it is very easy to have an income of strategic resources. Or, that early, they will be very cheap on the market. This creates a massive race to build this, with good reason. Once the Megapole is built, it's benefit is huge for how early in the game it is. Armies can be produced twice as fast, cities develop in just a couple turns, ect.



I feel like its boost could stand to be reduced. Or the building itself could be moved to a later era, as it would have less breaking of an impact if it showed up in, say, Era 4.



But, that's just my opinion. Feel free to explain why I'm wrong and call me a scrub, if you would like.

A couple things to consider:

• Comparing the amount of required to build it, the Megapole takes 10-40 turns (depending on game speed and how fast you level it up) to pay back.
• The Empire-wide cost reduction is only on Districts (Borough Streets, Cargo Docks, probably other Legendary Buildings) not all items
• +25 (or +50 if leveled up) is a big deal early in the game, but is not that big of a deal later. An Era industry-focused city (decent terrain, Mill Foundry + all workers on production) in Era 2 can output 50 - 100 per turn without the Megapole.
• The Era 2 tech Canal Locks was upgraded to "Hydrology" in the expansion and added the Canal Locks one-per-empire improvement that can add a lot of too.
• A city with a Legendary Building can be captured.
  
  

I agree it's good, but too good? I'm not sure. Game breaking? Probably not.



They need to be good to spark the type of competition the Legendary Deeds/Buildings are supposed to bring to the game. If they were meh, no one would bother.

The real alternative to the Megapole, for me, is an entire army with full strategics. Which costs about the same.

natev wrote:
The real alternative to the Megapole, for me, is an entire army with full strategics. Which costs about the same.

Which, depending on how early you get them built, can actually be the same thing as building the Megapole yourself, when you take the megapole city away from the guy who built it.



As someone who favors sprawling districts over more regions, the Megapole is one of my absolute favorite legendary buildings, I think that it is in fact overpowered, and that's the point because it is a legendary building.

is a legendary building,,this is why is so strong and good.but is not op,is not like,if u have u win..there are teach that can be equal to the magpole or even better(7 industry for people for example).and it depend on your stategy,try to build means that u are leaving other things back.

Do anyone know if Megapole -30% district cost is applied with the natural -50% district cost of the Necrophages (Cellulose mutation) ?



Does it do -80 % ? It looks overpowered for Necrophages.

@Jojo_Fr... good point, and I fear that it will do just that, similar "exploits" have been witnessed, for production, such as this: /#/endless-legend/forum/5-general/thread/2469-instant-wonder-victory



It's the problem on using +% bonus instead of x % bonus... The % accumulation becomes quite easy to unbalance a game.

Level 3 Megapole in the cultists city is absurd



Hell, any of those wonders is ridiculous if the Cultists get it.

Jojo_Fr wrote:
Do anyone know if Megapole -30% district cost is applied with the natural -50% district cost of the Necrophages (Cellulose mutation) ?



Does it do -80 % ? It looks overpowered for Necrophages.

Cellulose mutation reduces the population cost of a district while the wonder reduces the industry cost as I understand it. As for the Cultists getting the wonders, they provide a useful buff for the Cultists but are hardly overpowered considering the amount of districts and time it takes to make any of these level 3.

Abmpicoli,

abmpicoli wrote:
@Jojo_Fr... good point, and I fear that it will do just that, similar "exploits" have been witnessed, for production, such as this: /#/endless-legend/forum/5-general/thread/2469-instant-wonder-victory



It's the problem on using +% bonus instead of x % bonus... The % accumulation becomes quite easy to unbalance a game.

- I don't understand the difference between "+x%" and "x %". Explain me please.



Suggestion : I think it would be good that any building give only +x % prod bonus, and not -x% cost bonus. Because +100% means twice faster, although -100 % means infinitevely faster (and -80% means... I don't know how much faster. 4 ?).



Is that what you said ?



- I will in add the suggestion to replace any -% cost by a +% output bonus (science, prod, districts etc.).



wingzero890

Level 3 Megapole in the cultists city is absurd



Hell, any of those wonders is ridiculous if the Cultists get it.

You have damn right. It is absurd, and any wonders owned by Cultist can be monstruously powerfull compared to others factions (due to the fact that all FIDSI of villages will be counted in the multiplied output of the city, so any wonder for cultist count for all their empire). I wonder if Cultist should even been autorised to have access to wonders...



A solution could be that : wonders effects the output of the city, but not of all the converted villages. It may make their wonder access moraly descent ^^.



Adventurer_Blitz

Cellulose mutation reduces the population cost of a district while the wonder reduces the industry cost as I understand it. As for the Cultists getting the wonders, they provide a useful buff for the Cultists but are hardly overpowered considering the amount of districts and time it takes to make any of these level 3.

Unless I make mistake, Cellulose mutation reduces the population cost (from one point only I guess) to the need of districts. But it reduce the cost of district of -50 %, which is the main avantage of Cellule mutation (someone could confirm this -50 % please ?).



About the wonders and Cultist, Industrial Megapole would not be the strongest I think, for the reasons you say. But few others wonders would be, as the +100 % dust wonder.



In my opinion, wonders are designed to be balanced if they increase the ouput of this particular city, but with Cultists, one city means all their empire output.



Anyway maybe wingzero and me have wrong, and it would not be so overpowered for them. We'll see it with the feedback of solo and multi players.

I believe abmpicoli is referring to the distinction between additive and multiplicative bonuses. Let me provide some examples:



Example A:

A city receives a -20% unit cost bonus from a hero, and a +20% unit cost penalty from a global event effect.

Additive bonuses: 100% - 20% (hero bonus) + 20% (global effect) = 100%. No change to the costs.

Multiplicative bonuses: 100% * 80% (hero bonus) * 120% (global effect) = 96%. You actually still come out 4% cheaper than without the effects.



Example B:

You get -50% Improvement Cost from a hero, and -50% from your Empire Plan. (Purposely exaggerated numbers, but you can get close to that with a few other modifiers thrown in)

Additive bonuses: 100% - 50% (hero) - 50% (Empire Plan) = 0% cost. Free buildings.

Multiplicative Bonuses: 100% * 50% (hero) * 50% (Empire Plan) = 25% building cost. Dirt cheap, but not completely free.





Regarding the question of Cellulose Mutation, though:

In this case, the bonus is multiplicative for a very simple reason. The trait does not modify the basic district requirements and cost, but rather replaces the basic district entirely.

For normal faction, districts require 2 population and have a Base Cost of 150 per existing district, including the city center.

For factions with Cellulose mutation the require only 1 population and have a Base Cost of 100 per existing district, including the city center.

So, in order to build the last district of a 3 tile wide triangle, a normal faction requires 5*150 = 750 Industry base cost. -30% from the Megapole makes 525.

The Necrophages require 5*100 = 500, with Megapole 500*0.7 = 350 Industry.

If Cellulose Mutation simply applied a -30% modifier (which luckily it does not), the cost would have come out at roughly 250 Industry.



I also agree that wonders can potentially be incredibly powerful for the Cultists, but as others have pointed out: That relies on keeping your minor faction villages alive, which may be viable in Singleplayer, but I can not imagine them surviving long in Multiplayer after you've grabbed a wonder or two.