Hello all,



The first two paragraphs are a form of introduction, then I shall be speaking about my suggestions and last a solution.



I have not played Endless Legend, or many other games for that matter, in quite some time due to school. However, I have now started a new single player game in it and have been working through it. I am very happy that there have been a lot of improvements since way back when. Unfortunately, there is one thing that I had hoped would be added to, but so far I have not seen an improvement to it: the main quest line.



It is very good and makes the game more interesting, making you want to play each faction to find their story. It also prevents the game from becoming monotonous; it gives you something to keep working towards. Yet, from what I've seen in my small number of play-throughs, each faction's quest line remains the same for them. I believe this may cause some players to lose interest after they have played each faction a few times. Side quests, too, become repetitive - minor factions and ruins end up giving you the same things over and over with only a couple rare quests that you are not likely to see more than once a playthrough.



Main Faction Quests:



I see there already is an "Add quest variance to the main quest" on the [G2G] Endless Legend's List of Community Feedback. I may be restating some things already mentioned, apologies about that, but I would still like to make suggestions.



Rather than a quest line, a quest tree should be used. Many times in videos advertising the game or about the game's content, it is stated Auriga is changing. The question is asked "Will it survive or will it be destroyed?" many times. Rather than indefinitely stating this, allow the players to determine the planet's fate. It will bring players a sense of completeness if - upon someone achieving a victory - players can at least find out what direction the planet is heading; whether destruction or recovery. The current system is linear, forcing you down a path (if you want any hope of a Quest Victory) even if you don't like it.



To use the Drakken (My favourite faction. Because Dragons.) Questline for example, the chapters alternate between two sisters ruling the new Drakken colony/empire/settlement. One more warlike and the other more peaceful and diplomatic. Why not give the player a taste of each then let them decide which path they follow? I am aware (from reading around, not in game experience - I will get to why later) that there is now a final Victory chapter composing of 6 parts. At the end of this, the player's empire leaves the planet on a spaceship. This implies that the planet is doomed no matter what your empire does, as immense, powerful and knowledgeable as it is. Why can't you save it when Auriga herself says (in the videos on the steam store) that she is doomed unless her children (the empires) do something about it? Instead of saying "Do this to get his reward and advance to the next quest." the game should rather be "Do this, this or this. Each has its own rewards and consequences." there doesn't have to be three, or even multiple, choices for each stage in the quest tree - maybe only at the beginning of each chapter. But the player should still be allowed to choose what kind of empire they are.



A simpler alternative to a quest tree would be multiple quest lines - a random one selected when the user starts the game. Their quest line will lead them down the path of saving or destroying the planet.



A even more complex, but even more replayable solution would be multiple quest trees or interlacing quest trees. Players could have multiple starting points to their questline (Exiles [Criminalsorotherwise], Missionaries, Colonists, Accidentally separated from the main body of the empire, Splinter faction [donotagreewiththeviewsofthemainempire], etc.). There could be points where different starting points would lead to the same branch and outcome for the empire and the planet.



In continuation, the Quest Victory could have (at the very least) two options: leave the planet or save the planet.







Another point I would like to suggest is recoverable main quests. The game I am currently in is with a cusomtised Drakken faction with the "Make Trade, Not War" trait. I thought I could pester the AIs I didn't like until they declared war on me, but they were too scared of me - they merely closed borders. I won't be repeating that mistake, but that's beside the point. For the first part of Chapter 6 of the Drakken Questline, I needed to capture a city. I couldn't, so I left it. Another empire later destroyed the city, causing the quest to be marked as "failed". While I wouldn't have been able to do it anyway (unless there was a dynamic quest tree that accounted for the "Make Trade, Not War" trait) but the fact that once another empire destroyed the city, my main quest line was completely and utterly ruined, showed that there is a major flaw in the main quest design. There should be a way that an empire can return to their quest line. Impose some kind of penalty or have a quest specifically to get back to the main quest. Or have a branch of the main quest tree that considers you failing a quest.



Side Quests:



This one is simple. Add more quests. Pacifying villages and exploring ruins becomes very repetitive. Have a greater side quest pool available so that there is less repetition. Maybe add a few more Unique ones, that will only ever happen a maximum of once per plathrough, as well.



The solution:



Games2Gether. One of the eight major factions were created through G2G. There were many entries for the competition to make a major faction, but only one was able to be selected. Open up the option for the community to write quest lines/trees. Amplitude can read through what the community creates, select good ones and work on/encourage promising ones. Side quests created by the community will be easy to implement: proofread the text, make corrections, create the art (or refine it if already provided by author), put it into your existing quest engine.



Main quest lines/trees will be more difficult, as you will have to code the game to factor in the options, etc. But I'm certain they are doable, considering you were able to make the game as marvelous as it already is.



An advantage of allowing the community to create quests (rather than with the Major Factions) is you don't only have to choose the biggest and bestest, you can choose and work on any that you, the developers, like. On that thought, you could allow players to create more major factions too.



Regarding Steam Workshop (Currently leading in the G2G votes between it, Controller Support and SteamOS), you could definitely make use of it. But mod creating which requires coding will discourage many people who don't have the knowledge. Amplitude could provide tools which present the user with a sample of the quest screen. All they have to do is add the art, text, set the rewards and which quest section follows it. It would require adjustment to the game code, of course, to allow for the quest trees and the custom quests in the first place. A toolkit provided by Amplitude with a good GUI will allow talented artists and writers, who may have no experience with coding, to add content to the game as well.



Although, if Workshop is implimented, this will create a problem with multiplayer games. Either you will have to make sure everyone has the same mods as the host or you will need to not allow mods onto multiplayer games at all. With either of these, I would recommend my earlier solution: Amplitude adds the best community-created content as official game content. This way even players who are opposed to mods, or who don't feel like finding and installing every one that the host has, can still have an improved experience of the game.







Let me know what you think about this, I'd love feedback.



Thank you for your time

~Mar

Does anyone have any opinions or additional suggestions regarding this? I see the thread has been rated 5 star, but no one has posted their comments or thoughts.

Hi Greatmar2 - Thanks for playing and enjoying and commenting!



I'm glad that you basically enjoy the quests; we added them because we thought it was something that really lacked in 4X games and hoped that it would help bring out the lore and make the RPG side of the game more interesting.



As far as your "quest tree" idea and adding variety go, I think everybody agrees with you! It's not that we didn't want to do more, but it was a simple question of the amount of time and resource that it requires to design, write, code, and test something as complicated as a faction quest. These are particularly difficult, as we often add new heroes, special weapons, unique technologies and city improvements, etc. -- and all of these mean tons more work for every part of the dev team.



So basically all of that is an apology and an excuse on my part for not having done more, but to tell the truth I'm pretty happy with the 8 that we have so far



We are definitely going to keep working on the quest system and try to do more of it in future games, but I don't know how much more we'll put into EL. Stay tuned, though, because it is an interesting area and something that we would all like to do more with. You never know...



Regards,



Slowhands

Thanks Jeff!



I think it was a great idea to add it to the game; I want every scrap of lore I can find - the Endless Universe intrigues me. As a bookworm, roleplayer and hobbyist writer, I've seen and made many - many - fictional worlds. I'd say the Endless Universe is definitely one of the better. I understand the amount of time properly setting out a story can take, making sure that everything fits with the lore and is well written.



And programming can take ages too. XD I'm working on something more complex for my grade 12 project, but my grade 11 project is the most complex program I've made so far; hangman. It took two or three days (in the coding phase). Yes, I guess I did go a tad overboard with it; customizable colours, savable games, single and two player, key listeners, etc. but it still took pretty long. I can only imagine how long it must take for a proper game like endless legend; the artists, animators, developers, directors, etc.



I am very happy to hear that you guys are working on this and I am greatly looking forward to future updates and games! Just remember (not that you'd have forgotten :P ) that Amplitude has created a great community who'd be glad to help when they can.



Regards

Mar

Greetings!



I myself have run into a dead-end with faction quests, something I really love about Endless Legend, with default factions, too (the city I need to brought down some how position in a way that I could not attack, might be my own ignorance considering that was one of the earlier sessions).

Branching quests would destroy some roleplaying, though it is indeed a cool idea if you count each session as a beginning and end of a blank slate (could also result in a "take that, Fate!", too, hmmm).



Now, someone might already said this, but, alternatively, a campaign editor might solve the problem? It doesn't have to bee a total editor like creating a world setting, just what we already have which seems to have some random factors to it, no offense intended. Then again, you cannot really do anything if you're stuck with the one requirement, so I guess I'm going in circle.

I think Alternative choices/ending would be a great thing for immersion and for the game, in overhaul. Sadly, I must say that the game wont change much and that your proposal isnt even possible for EL. (too much mechanics to change, I fear)



Though, that would be an awesome quest system for EL2



You have my support