Will there be different creatures for each race to use? For example: Elves recruiting Unicorns and treants or an Undead Faction having something like skeletons and ghosts. I do like being able to customize my units but with 4x fantasy games I've always loved having to large variety of different fantasy creatures on the battlefield. Is it going to be like Fallen Enchantress which most units are the same thing but with different set of armor. I would love to have a variety of creatures and to be able to equip them with different items.

T41 wrote:
Well that's terrible. Armor is usually my favorite visual aspect of fantasy games.

Weapons are like a compensation to please the pleb for the lack of Visual changes in that game and the lack of units number....



And Armor visual changes are still not planned, even in DLC, thats a shame for a such beautiful game...



But well, we already started that debate there /#/endless-legend/forum/6-game-design/thread/3058-annoying-paradox...

so do the necrophages deplete like the cravers do? they don't look like it but i haven't played the game.

Nasarog wrote:
Indeed, but then what? DO they assimilate like the Borg/Tyranid and make modified units? or do they get a passive bonus? Or a Hissho work force? Because the Necrophages are basically terrestrial Cravers to me.

They definitely have strong Craver characteristics (can't engage in normal diplomacy and have a weird relationship with resource management, specifically food). However, their need to constantly be at war and conquering things cleaves more closely to the Hissho. As a combination of characteristics, I think it works pretty well. If they remind me of any faction in any game, it would actually be the Harvesters from MoO3 (with a dash of Zerg for flavor).



On the flip side, to favor immersion, I actually think it should be impossible to integrate a Necrophage city into another faction's empire--all other factions should have to raze a Necrophage city and replace it.

They seem to be terrestrial cravers but for the fact that they do not have machine parts and the fact that they seem to not be nearly as wasteful as the cravers.

Nosferatiel wrote:
The necrophages can never just talk anyone into joining, they just grab the food on the go.

Indeed, but then what? DO they assimilate like the Borg/Tyranid and make modified units? or do they get a passive bonus? Or a Hissho work force? Because the Necrophages are basically terrestrial Cravers to me.

Nasarog wrote:
I hope that some minor races will refuse to join certain factions.

The necrophages can never just talk anyone into joining, they just grab the food on the go.

I hope that some minor races will refuse to join certain factions.

Units will be able to have some special abilities through their accessories, so the customization will be a lot more meaningful in EL than in ES, and by far.

That is not always true, there a number of realistic tactical choices that such a system would allow in EL. You will have to make hard choices regarding how much and how good the weapons and armour you want to give your troops. And the amazing thing about such a system I believe, is that it will allow smaller kingdoms to be much stronger with a small but very strong army compared to its giant opponents that use most of the valuable weapons on improvements and so have basically just a swarm of weak units left. As for ES, I wouldn't compare it to EL as they are totally different styles of game.

It's not about realism (we're talking about Fantasy armies here) but unit customization that is interesting and are worth the effort of researching/producing and tinkering with in a game play context.







As an example Endless Space had a lot of weapons (Kinetic, Missile or Beam) that rock/paper/scissored against Armor types (Deflector, Shield and Flak). There was dozens of techs you needed to research if you wanted all of this stuff and usually a handful required just to go up one branch. The only difference between level 1 and the top level is stats. It was tedious to (a) research all of these techs, (b) redesign your ships, (c) retrofit just to get a stat bonus. It seemed like a lot of the tech tree was there solely for the purpose of feeding unit customization. The customization always led to optimizing for an archetype (ex. maximum long-range damage dealer, Hi-defense short range, jack-of-all trades, etc.) that didn't really give a lot of true choices to the player. Just pray that your opponent doesn't have the counter.



Unit customization can lead to a lot of game play baggage, simply so players can say they designed units that the designers would have added anyway if there was no unit customization.

if you are looking for realistic differences it really depends. between a two handed sword and an axe, they are both designed for devastating attacks along the length of the blade, the sword likely having longer range and the ability to thrust through weaker armour such as chain mail, the axe on the other hand will have a much bigger edge and likely the ability to penetrate deep into stronger armour such as plate mail, though it is likely to get stuck. having a helmet will protect your head from lighter objects and stop slashing objects from hurting your head too much, on the other hand helmet or no a blow to the head with a mace is a death stroke. i would think beause of the weakneses of helmets, a better shield would be far more versatile. for the last one, it is going to be a pain to try and keep all types of combat fully researched as each tech will increase in cost after you research it, so i'm not entirely sure how flexible your weapon vs. armour combinations can be.

Making sure these items are interesting will be a challenge. This is an area (unit customization) where a lot of the recent 4X games falls flat for me. Usually kitting out your troops has little effect on game play beyond cosmetics...



Is there a real difference between a two-handed axe and a two-handed sword?

Will there be arbitrary differences between the types of weapons (ex. Sword does "slash" damage, mace does "crush" damage)?

Will weapon upgrades give unique effects or grant boring "stat" bonuses?

Is there any real different between having a helmet and a shield vs. an upgraded shield?

Do I have to jump through a lot of research and production hoops just to have a "Crushing" weapon that is slightly better vs my opponent's armor type?



Three moves ahead did an interesting podcast on this topic -> http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2012/07/23/three-moves-ahead-episode-178-unit-customization-and-game-design/

if you don't know already, there are minor factions in the game that any faction can assimilate and then use. So that can be the variety you were looking for but besides that i don't believe there will be race specific recruiting. minor factions can be assimilated by any and all factions.

General



Mainly depending on the Faction and Class (Melee, Ranged, Mounted, Support and Flying), each unit type is defined by the followings:

• Specific 3D mesh and animations
• Battle and Map Attributes
  
  To be detailed in another GDD
• Default Capacities
  
  Even though most Capacities (such as DoT, Stun, Leach, Charge…) can be given by items, some of them can be also bound by default to one unit type
• Battle Action
  
  Triggered during battle by the Player, the Battle Action is a unique Power for each unit type
• Equipment Items
  
  Types of items that can be equipped in each item category for each unit
• Item Slots
  
  Available slots that can be filled in through the unit design interface, sorted by item category and type
  
  

Equipment Items

• The Player can create different unit designs by adding equipment items that will impact Attributes, Capacities and Battle Actions of the unit. Each unit design will then serve as a base to create several units of the same design
• Techs, Skills or Rewards can unlock new item types, tiers or materials (Strategic Resources used) for new items to be added to the unit design
• Like in ES, Retrofitting a unit design is also possible
  
  

Item Categories



There are 3 categories of Equipment items:

• Weapon
  
  
  • Weapon item mainly impact offensive attributes and give offensive capacities
  • Weapon types can be: 1H Sword/Mace/Axe, 2H Sword/Mace/Axe/Spear, Scepter, Staff, Wand, Bow Crossbow
  • Only one weapon slot is available for a unit design in order to equip one weapon type among those existing
  • No shield can be equipped when 2H Weapons are added to a design
  • Only weapon items have a 3D mesh, visible on the 3D Unit once added to the unit design (see mockup more below)
• Armor
  
  
  • Armor items mainly impact defensive attributes and give defensive capacities
  • Armor types can be: Head, Torso, Shield and Legs
  • Except for Hero Units, most of units don’t have enough slots available to add all the armor types to their unit designs
• Special
  
  
  • Special items mainly impact only one attribute or give one capacity
  • Except for Hero Units, only a few units have Special item slots
  
  
  

Cost of Items

• Even though most of the items require additional Industry to be spent like for the production of a unit, a certain amount of one Strategic Resource or some Dust may be required for some items to be created through a unit design
  
  

Hero Units

• Interface
• Unlike units, there is no retrofitting for units
• Heroes can change their equipment instantly, without any Industry cost, even though other additional Strategic Resources or Dust costs must be paid
• The equipment of one hero cannot be validated if there is not at least one weapon equipped through the Hero Equipment interface
  
  

Strategic Resources and Design of Items

• Many items require some Strategic Resources of a specific kind, used as material, in order to be produced through the unit design
• In order to better differentiate which Strategic Resource is required for an item, each Strategic Resource corresponds to a graphical design inspired by each of the Major Faction art style, in addition to a color reminding the one of the Strategic resource
  
  

VIP FEEDBACK



Our VIPs had only one questions:

• Estimated damage output: it will depend on each enemy unit defensive attributes but yes, damage is one of each unit attributes and we intend to keep the damage output as clear as possible in EL

the history of humanity has seen many changes in armour throughout historyb(of course auriga will be a bit different but it will probably be a bit similar). armor effects a lot more than just your movement on a map. troops with heavy armour will often be less effective than troops with light armour. they cannot move as well in battle and become a lot more clumsy. i personally do not think even stronger races like ogres will be beyond the limiting effects of armour. besides, with the advent of weapons that cane pierce all but the thickest of armour, it becomes useless to wear armour until it can effectively stop these weapons. in humanity's case it was gun powder but in auriga it could be anything. also, heavy armour has always been a lit more expensive than things like leather and chainmail. for example, in the middle ages knights were always fewer than regular people and were usually nobles. it was very expensive to afford full armour and a mount so it made sense for there to only be a few. in terms for endless legend, think of how much metal you would need to make weapons for a substantial amount of troops, and how much more you would need to make full armour for all of those troops. in my opinion however, it would be amazing to be able to choose the amount of people in each group that wore armour. having a few super juggernauts combined with a few scouts and the rest lighter infantry would be quite effective.

With the improved armor, for example, from the Leather Armor to Armor Plates Heavy, would be to consider a decrease in the ability of the movement (MP) due to the significant increase of the weight carried by the troops. Several troops can then be immune to this handicap due to the high strength such as Ogre, Troll, etc..

will they even have cannons in this game? i always thought minor faction units would be the fodder. gunpowder as a strategic resource would be strange when they have magic and dust beams and crossbow guns who needs firearms? but if gunpowder is a strategic resource will it need to be made out of ingredients or will it just be its own resource?

I guess you would have to name your units. Heavy Paladin and Cannon Fodder.



DarkMeph

T41 wrote:
Well that's terrible. Armor is usually my favorite visual aspect of fantasy games.

Seconded. Even if it was just bare bones like light armor/medium armor/heavy armor it'd be nice to be able to tell on the game map which are my super heavy paladins, and which are my throwaway pikmen.

I agree with T41 with this the weapon I really like are swords because they can have really beautiful hilts. Armour can be design in variety of ways are designs. I can understand that not everything can have every piece of armour because that did happen in historic times. Will units have specific unit they are really good against and one unit that is really poor a bit like rock,paper and scissors?



DarkMeph

Anosognos wrote:
From what I can tell, the weapons will but the armor won't. That's how I read this, anyway:

Well that's terrible. Armor is usually my favorite visual aspect of fantasy games.

Finally, a clear damage-output

Ashbery76 wrote:
Will units when they have new weapons and armour change the unit visuals.

From what I can tell, the weapons will but the armor won't. That's how I read this, anyway:

Steph'nie wrote:

Only weapon items have a 3D mesh, visible on the 3D Unit once added to the unit design (see mockup more below)

As long as the battle system is relatively straight forward, leading to a relatively simple unit design.



Its all good gravy.



As that is kinda what got me down in ES, the amount of math needed kinda surpassed me and made the combat extremely jarring.

Will units when they have new weapons and armour change the unit visuals.

I second the questions raised by @supertartiflette



Will trebuchet, siege towers, ballista, siege beasts/golems/automata and the like be in the game? Will it be possible to build watch towers to increase , non-city forts to defend strategic positions, checkpoints to stop scouts, etc?





Also, the art shows the Vaulters equiping shields and crossbows. Will this actually be possible for some units in that faction in the game?



This stuff continues to look excellent. I'm really excited.

With the list of weapon equipement I see nothing that suggest siege unit. Is units specially strong against buildings are planned ?

Also scepter and staff suggest spellcaster ?

Also, I don't know if it's the good thread to ask but I would like buildings to strengthen our territory against invasion and control the enemy's army movements, like walls and forts.