I could see an initial negative hit when first establishing a new city. (People dismayed by seeing their friends and relatives pack up and move to places unknown.) But when a level-1 District is added, Happiness in that city should increase because it adds more living room, city resources, and a "rah, rah, team!" factor because the home city is becoming more awesome. A District that adds only one of no hexes might cause a Happiness hit because it IS jamming in more people into a limited area without also adding additional living space. And the only way that I can think that adding a new city is viewed as a Bad Thing for the empire would be if somehow that new city was in competition with an existing city, cutting into its revenues and profits. But that alone would hardly account for an empire-wide Happiness hit.



Contrary to the Happiness improvement when a District goes from level-1 to level-2, it seems to me that would actually cause a Happiness decrease. "Urban renewal" causes population displacement for new construction and demolition of older (usually tenements) structures. In the _long run_ it's a Good Thing, but initially more people are upset than gladdened.

CaptainPatch wrote:
I wonder about the rationale behind this one. As I see it, "Level 1" is that part of a community that has started to build up rather than out. Essentially, "uptown". Just looking at cities in general, "uptown" generates a greater amount of wealth per square meter than the surrounding "downtown" areas. Things are there that that people want to buy and merchants are more than happy to sell. It may be more crowded uptown, but it is where the cultural centers are found, jobs are to be had, and recreational opportunities abound. Downtown is mainly residential and industries that are too imposing to fit in uptown. Given a choice between having community that is ALL downtown or a community with some uptown and some downtown, I think the majority of people like the idea of there being an uptown. Dissatisfaction generally doesn't start to arise until it is the residential areas that are being piled on higher and deeper -- as in on top of the usual uptown structures. Too many people and not enough of the other stuff is what generally makes for an unhappy community. The "sea of humanity" is what makes life in the Big City unpleasant. But to go from happy people building a new community to an unhappy metropolis takes a LOT of time. So why the negative morale hit happening immediately?

It's essentially standing in for population disapproval. Though I'd have rather seen -10 approval per pop, +10 approval per borough, an additional +5 for level 2 districts. Would have been more natural, and made boroughs more important for gaining lots of resources and combating disapproval. It's essentially the same net effect as current implementation.

gap81 wrote:
We can speculate about the rational all we want, and i am sure there would be some pretty interesting arguments on either side, but the reality is that Endless Legend isn't reality. Its a Video Game,

Essentially, the "It's just a game" counterargument. I've never been comfortable with that kind of explanation. Overall, most games are simulations. They generally try to utilize a "reasonable" set of cause-and-effects. Such as attacking the units of competing empire WILL adversely affect your diplomatic standing with that empire. Don't produce enough food to feed the population and population WILL decrease AND Happiness will drop. Even if a game is Fantasy or far future Science Fiction, there is an expectation that certain causes WILL yield reasonable and understandable effects. That's why it is somewhat jarring when the effect doesn't seem to jive with the cause that generated that effect.



Is it _really_ too much to ask that effects should reasonably match the causes that generate those effects?

Yes, great post and nice summary.



I wish the Vaulters didn't get the expansion disapproval reduction when their holy resource is activated. Doesn't make total sense to me thematically, and in my opinion, makes them a bit OP. I see them as a moderate sized emoire focused on research - and this bonus gives them too much reward for being expansionist/militaristic.

Only thing missing from this guide is detailling the different aproval levels. I know fervent starts at 90%, but I am not clear on the threshold between rebelion, content, and happy.



What would also be useful is a reminder of the different effects of each level.

Great guide over all! Keep up the good work!

Thanks, fixed the typos. please point out any more you see as well as any errors as some of my information may come from dated sources and previous iterations of the game...or it may just be plain wrong. =p

We can speculate about the rational all we want, and i am sure there would be some pretty interesting arguments on either side, but the reality is that Endless Legend isn't reality. Its a Video Game, and a dam good one at that. I am willing to let the developers take some liberties with their game design in an effort to make a game that provides a cohesive and unique feel. The game by its very nature is hopelessly and perfectly imbalanced to a T...and makes for a pleasurable and markedly different playing experience than many other 4X style games of a similar nature.



I think the biggest reason for the Approval system as a whole was to create a mechanic that controls the pace of the game. Unlike many games were mindless expansion and aggression rule the paths to victory, Endless Legends system provides plenty of benefit to expanding a fairly large empire and exploiting every tile you can...just not as quickly as possible. It requires careful planning, forethought, and a focus on city management and empire building that goes beyond what many games even dream of doing. To this end it also makes the game very deep (read complicated) and strategic (read detail oriented) that requires a players careful study and full focus to get the most out of their faction during a match.



That kind of play doesn't appeal to everyone, but to some its a beautiful thing and a challenge worth tackling. This thread in particular was an effort to make one of the more important, yet not every well known parts of the game more understandable and accessible to anyone who comes across it. I hope it helps, and feel free to discuss the rationale for the who what when where and whys if you must. I will simply sit back and enjoy the view.

Just some typos, mate:

gap81 wrote:


1. All capitol cities start with a palace structure pre-built as the city is founded. This structure is unique and removes the -10 global approval penalty to all cities the capital city would normally generate, in addition to generating gold and providing an extra militia slot.



4. Some heroes have an ability to remove the -10 global penalty a city generates if they are the governor



5. Some heroes have an ability to reduce the negative approval penalties in a city they govern

Great guide over all! Keep up the good work!

gap81 wrote:
2. Each level 1 district built by a city creates an additional -10 expansion penalty to approval in that city. A city with two level 1 districts will generate -20 approval.

I wonder about the rationale behind this one. As I see it, "Level 1" is that part of a community that has started to build up rather than out. Essentially, "uptown". Just looking at cities in general, "uptown" generates a greater amount of wealth per square meter than the surrounding "downtown" areas. Things are there that that people want to buy and merchants are more than happy to sell. It may be more crowded uptown, but it is where the cultural centers are found, jobs are to be had, and recreational opportunities abound. Downtown is mainly residential and industries that are too imposing to fit in uptown. Given a choice between having community that is ALL downtown or a community with some uptown and some downtown, I think the majority of people like the idea of there being an uptown. Dissatisfaction generally doesn't start to arise until it is the residential areas that are being piled on higher and deeper -- as in on top of the usual uptown structures. Too many people and not enough of the other stuff is what generally makes for an unhappy community. The "sea of humanity" is what makes life in the Big City unpleasant. But to go from happy people building a new community to an unhappy metropolis takes a LOT of time. So why the negative morale hit happening immediately?

Please add feedback if any details were missed, are flat out incorrect, or need reworded for clarity.



Thanks!