abhBIT wrote:

I just took a look at that tutorial. Turn 126 and only 1657 science? No idea what speed this is on, but this is absolutely unacceptable and makes them nigh useless mid-late game. I may have a shallow approach, but someone please tell me i am wrong. I really hope i am wrong.

At turn 128 I have 2700 science/turn at normal speed with Brains over Bucks active as a Republic and 26 relics, 22 of which are unallocated. I'm admittedly not great at this game but I don't think I could have done significantly better than that. Maybe if I had focused on exploration and thus relic hunting more I'd have a few more of those, each of which is a +50 then I'd have a couple hundred more. I've been lagging behind in tech past turn 60-ish.

However, seeing how donating system to the Academy can get you so many relics, I think it's safe to say that not having gone for a cultural influence focused build was a mistake, because an extra 6-10 relics would have made a lot of difference at any point. I just hope that there'll be a "cycle through found relics" button soon because missing out on a key mechanic because you missed it as you searched through the entire map for the 55th time in a row is an absolute [I'm sure you can imagine].

@ Khorothis and @Kempie:

Giving systems to academy is unlocked from turn 1 asa long as you got a temple.

Rest of requirements are same as pacific conversion: not war/truce, not siege/ongoing invasion.

@abhBIT:

All my tutorials are tailored to explain a feature. To do it lots of times I made non-optimal decisions to show a feature. In that case I could have better sci with unassigbed relics, but I assigned to inf lots of relics to grow in area and show the temple features.

You need to study the merger technology. And it should be the influence range of the temple planet.

abhBIT wrote:

I just took a look at that tutorial. Turn 126 and only 1657 science? No idea what speed this is on, but this is absolutely unacceptable and makes them nigh useless mid-late game. I may have a shallow approach, but someone please tell me i am wrong. I really hope i am wrong.

You are wrong. In the beginning science is not that important. I am now late game and can research everything i want at a fair pace.

lo_fabre wrote:

@ Khorothis and @Kempie:

Giving systems to academy is unlocked from turn 1 asa long as you got a temple.

Rest of requirements are same as pacific conversion: not war/truce, not siege/ongoing invasion.

If that's true then the feature is bugged because the option didn't show up for me until I researched it.

Keimpe wrote:

abhBIT wrote:

I just took a look at that tutorial. Turn 126 and only 1657 science? No idea what speed this is on, but this is absolutely unacceptable and makes them nigh useless mid-late game. I may have a shallow approach, but someone please tell me i am wrong. I really hope i am wrong.

You are wrong. In the beginning science is not that important. I am now late game and can research everything i want at a fair pace.

No he's not. If you don't have enough relics you're screwed.

I do agree with the second sentence's gist, though. Having finished their faction quest (because Nakalim are way too wonky, weird, and frankly boring to slog through to the proper finish line), I think the Nakalim will only really work out for those who have a solid grasp of build orders and timings - all of which is dependent on poorly communicated mechanics. So extra respect to those who can master the new faction.

Khorothis wrote:

lo_fabre wrote:

@ Khorothis and @Kempie:

Giving systems to academy is unlocked from turn 1 asa long as you got a temple.

Rest of requirements are same as pacific conversion: not war/truce, not siege/ongoing invasion.

If that's true then the feature is bugged because the option didn't show up for me until I researched it.

Keimpe wrote:

abhBIT wrote:

I just took a look at that tutorial. Turn 126 and only 1657 science? No idea what speed this is on, but this is absolutely unacceptable and makes them nigh useless mid-late game. I may have a shallow approach, but someone please tell me i am wrong. I really hope i am wrong.

You are wrong. In the beginning science is not that important. I am now late game and can research everything i want at a fair pace.

No he's not. If you don't have enough relics you're screwed.

I do agree with the second sentence's gist, though. Having finished their faction quest (because Nakalim are way too wonky, weird, and frankly boring to slog through to the proper finish line), I think the Nakalim will only really work out for those who have a solid grasp of build orders and timings - all of which is dependent on poorly communicated mechanics. So extra respect to those who can master the new faction.

I didn't find it that hard to generate science for the Nakalim. It's just working around a science system that we got used to. I do think however that it will get a bit balanced in the future. 

Don't forget that the Nakalim already have a major headstart concerning science.

I have found that the GRAVITON-SHIELDED LABORATORY  can be built every time. I am not sure if this is a bug. But some planets of mine have 6 of them. 

:)

Keimpe wrote:

I have found that the GRAVITON-SHIELDED LABORATORY  can be built every time. I am not sure if this is a bug. But some planets of mine have 6 of them. 

:)

That would explain your science output, then :D

Khorothis wrote:

Keimpe wrote:

I have found that the GRAVITON-SHIELDED LABORATORY  can be built every time. I am not sure if this is a bug. But some planets of mine have 6 of them. 

:)

That would explain your science output, then :D

Haha indeed. :D. I've seen that this has already been posted as a bug. 

@ Khorothis, can't say if you caught a bug. I can give planets to Isyander without researching the pacific assimilation tech. Normally won't research it Nakalim, except for the inf. Just showed both icons in tutorial causr I wanted to show the difference. Tell me if it's confusing

Khorothis wrote:

Thanks for clarifying. I was hoping for something more flexible than an alternate beneficiary of a cultural conversion, especially if you still need the tech for it (obtaining which is an absolute slog); that makes it a "win more" feature, where if you're in a position to do it you've already won in practice. It would have been nice to be able to make use of shitty systems that your cockroach allies would swarm into otherwise (a "Colonisation Rights" diplomatic treaty would be a simple and much appriciated quality of life feature).

I gotta say, the Nakalim sound a lot more fun on paper than they are in practice. The Hissho and the Umbral Choir had their learning curves but I knew what my strengths and weaknesses were. With them I understand only that you immediately have to scour the galaxy with cloaked scout ships to collect relics (a "locate relic" button would be nice too, manually going through an explored map every turn is a chore that gets old real fast) to not fall behind in the tech race and maybe, just maybe, maintain a semblance of a lead in that field (I think it would help a lot if relics could be collected while cloaked but that might be too much) - and the nothing. I was expecting some leeway with the Academy but I just dropped my wallet on Isyander's desk and I was designated the Spear every time (which is another mechanic that feels too rigid for what it stands for), which I could do with any faction. My last hope was this donation of systems to get relics and a pat on the shoulder but as it is, I'm allied to my only neighbour through a weird twist of fate and now my last schtick went down the drain.

I can only hope that the 'fruition' one day will live up to the potential... 

@lo_fabre

I cannot muster the f***s necessary to recreate the circumstances, nor do I have a save to work with. I watched the relevant part of your vid, it made sense (though next time you want to be as clear as can be, write a script, it helps anchor your thoughts, freeing up precious brain juice you can never have enough of at the ready), it just doesn't line up with what I saw. Then again I could have missed a detail (like diplomatic status). I can't say I cared much about what was going on by that point. The Nakalim are really not my style in any way I can think of right now.

Khorothis wrote:

@lo_fabre

I cannot muster the f***s necessary to recreate the circumstances, nor do I have a save to work with. I watched the relevant part of your vid, it made sense (though next time you want to be as clear as can be, write a script, it helps anchor your thoughts, freeing up precious brain juice you can never have enough of at the ready), it just doesn't line up with what I saw. Then again I could have missed a detail (like diplomatic status). I can't say I cared much about what was going on by that point. The Nakalim are really not my style in any way I can think of right now.

I had it quite soon. I like the Nakalim very much.