Yeah. I will say, usually I prefer levelling up EVERYTHING to become basically a god, but I wouldn't argue with specializations.

husker wrote:
Two things that could really help achieve this and would not require any major adjustments. 1) slow the rate of level advancement and 2) force the player to make choices about the hero development rather than the current method of making all development perks eventually obtainable. For instance once your hero is level 10 you must choose a specialization thereby cutting off certain other paths.

That's a pretty good idea.

Two things that could really help achieve this and would not require any major adjustments. 1) slow the rate of level advancement and 2) force the player to make choices about the hero development rather than the current method of making all development perks eventually obtainable. For instance once your hero is level 10 you must choose a specialization thereby cutting off certain other paths.

We must not forget that the way the battle will be handled will be totally changed: there will be more tactical option since we will be able to choose how the fleet will evolve in space (different formations, focusing a special part of the enemy fleet, surrounding, etc...).



So, I would find it really interesting if the heroes participate to the battle in his own ship, allowing the enemy to attack him and possibly making him k.o. for the rest of the battle if the ship is destroyed (cancelling his boosts). Of course it means the heroes will still boost the entire fleet (Less than ES1 still...) but if we can cancel it by using a good tactic, why not?



The different classes could have a great role here: the pilot would boost less his army but will be harder to focus whereas the commander would give huge boost to everyone but would have less bonus for his own ship.



I don't know what to think about the legendary heroes. I like the idea of a lot of "minor" heroes with lesser abilities. But I wouldn't know what to do with a single over powered hero. Why one? Is he your emperor and you get huge trouble if he dies (succession civil war, instability...)? Will he still be able to beat every fleet he encounter that would not have a legendary hero too? What will be the point of minor heroes then?

So, I would like to like this but it is still too dark for me to have an idea about it :/

WhiteWeasel wrote:
Alternatively, they can keep their insane power, but only have it apply to a ship you assign them to command in the fleet. Also have it where if that specific ship is destroyed, the hero "flees in an escape pod" and has to be reassigned next turn. If the entire fleet he is in is wiped out, then the hero is injured. So while heroes are technically harder to get out of the picture in that system, their power is only limited to one ship and can be targeted.

Would also add interesting tactics to Pilot and Commander classes. Give the pilot a special small CP ship for interesting dynamics, while the Commander would be assignable to any ship you wanted (Preferably a large one).



It would be cool to see them steal "Special" items from Endless Legend as well. It's cool when you get a special weapon that can only be used by a hero. Imagine that same thing, but with ship components instead. Would make using a special, small craft actually viable.

I liked the direction the studio went with heros in EL. +1 to all the points about how OPed ES1's heros were, and how crippling a bad initial hero set could be.



Also really liked how EL heros have their upgrade path visualized from the start instead of trying to have to remember what abilities you need to take to unlock the higher tier ones you want.

WhiteWeasel wrote:
While I agree that heroes should be influential enough to change the outcome of a battle, I do think they should be toned down. I mean a lvl 25 hero in ES can have insane passives of 100%+ defensive and offensive capabilities on your entire fleet and turn a battle that would have been a loss or tie, to a total curbstomp.



Alternatively, they can keep their insane power, but only have it apply to a ship you assign them to command in the fleet. Also have it where if that specific ship is destroyed, the hero "flees in an escape pod" and has to be reassigned next turn. If the entire fleet he is in is wiped out, then the hero is injured. So while heroes are technically harder to get out of the picture in that system, their power is only limited to one ship and can be targeted.

Interesting idea. I still like my minor heroes idea though.

WhiteWeasel wrote:


Alternatively, they can keep their insane power, but only have it apply to a ship you assign them to command in the fleet. Also have it where if that specific ship is destroyed, the hero "flees in an escape pod" and has to be reassigned next turn. If the entire fleet he is in is wiped out, then the hero is injured. So while heroes are technically harder to get out of the picture in that system, their power is only limited to one ship and can be targeted.

That sir I would sign.



Sounds like a lot of fun too.

Maybe you could give that ship even a name or it would have a different tint in cinematics.



I would like that. As when I play 4X its also a sort of RPG to me. And my RPG heart would love to have some famous and glorious ships amongst all of my replaceable fleets.

While I agree that heroes should be influential enough to change the outcome of a battle, I do think they should be toned down. I mean a lvl 25 hero in ES can have insane passives of 100%+ defensive and offensive capabilities on your entire fleet and turn a battle that would have been a loss or tie, to a total curbstomp.



Alternatively, they can keep their insane power, but only have it apply to a ship you assign them to command in the fleet. Also have it where if that specific ship is destroyed, the hero "flees in an escape pod" and has to be reassigned next turn. If the entire fleet he is in is wiped out, then the hero is injured. So while heroes are technically harder to get out of the picture in that system, their power is only limited to one ship and can be targeted.

I wouldn't want to have legendary heroes, and lesser heroes because i think it would cause the lesser heroes to be very generic and underplayed with too much emphasis on wanting and utilizing legendary heroes. As far as single copy of heroes, I do agree there shouldn't be of the same exact same guy, but this would really limit the hero pool size I would think.



I would like to see all heroes unique in their own ways, and have players level specialize those uniqueness to have a different experience each game even based on what heroes you get. I had been thinking since they announced ES2 that having a "propagandist" hero would be cool in the sense that you would see like a "rigged"/landslide victory for whichever party you wanted.

Here's what I've suggested in the past and still do now. There needs to be two classes of heroes. Legendary heroes and minor/local ones.



A legendary hero comes from a pool of heroes. They are like the heroes from ES, but better balanced. Not OP, but strong. There is only a single copy of these heroes and depending on which ones you land, your game can completely change.



Minor/Local heroes are ship commanders or governors that have done a great job and survived many encounters that develop their own skills like veteran units do in EL. There would be the ones you use to lead your fleets or governors or something.



What do yo guys/gals think?

I like the fact that a single hero can turn the tide of a battle. I hear where you are coming from about not making them over powered. To me though, I think you need heroes that you can slap on system to turn it around economically and build it up to a decent system as well as sending or reassigning a fleet hero to make push and break into enemy lines. I will have to kinda disagree with this because heroes are a big part of the game to me and I think they should have influence in the game.

I couldn't agree more: having a fleet with a hero at least level 15 makes it able to beat the exact same fleet without taking damage.



In the lore it is explained that they can manipulate the dust and use it to improve defence and offence of the ships. It seems logical since dust can create a giant ship from scratch and repair an entire fleet. But, in this case, building ships would be meaningless because dust is way more powerful than any cannon.

To solve it according the lore, your idea of a hero with his own admiral ship ("star wars : empire at war" style ) is, for me, really great because it doesn't decrease the power of the dust (only his ship would be overpowered). We just have to say that heroes have to be in direct contact to use the dust on a ship. That is for the "dust bonuses".



Beside, the bonuses can be explained by the fact that heroes are great strategist and would make smarter moves than their opponent. But now in ES2 we will be able to do those manoeuvres manually, so no more "tactical bonuses". Maybe it could count during automatic battles, I don't know.