ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
I liked the minor faction system in Endless Legend very much if only for the only reason that if you cannot beat any of the major AI opponent you have some stuff you can kill lol.
I see them as much more advanced Pirates from ES giving them goals, priorities and powers of their own just on a smaller scale. The idea of them becoming full fledged AI opponents has a certain allure but would counter the term "minor faction". Endless Legend added them as a distraction, source of lore and additional mechanics for warfare and empire building which was a great idea IMO. I didnt think much about "advancing" the system so I dont have any specific ideas yet but I d like to see this in a different form in ES2.
Osmedirez wrote: I also enjoy the concept of having an integrated minor faction be a sort of automated second faction within your empire. Like you set their behaviors and they run the script -- have them automatically colonize selected systems, form an a blockade of a specific route in part of your empire that you're not focusing on, etc. Have them use a color-shifted variant of your ship tech and colonized planet graphics (when applicable), and allow them to have a minor diplomacy role (boosts/detriments based on their traits). This might be a little too much to ask though. ^_^
This is sort of what I'd like in regards to Minor Factions. I want diplomacy (and espionage to matter) for example lets say your starting constellation also has a minor faction in it. Eventually you get to the point were you want their stuff, be it tech or their planets. So you can do this by Diplomacy, Conquest or go for complete Genocide if you are playing the Cravers. You could use diplomacy to slowly build trust between your faction and the minor until they are happy enough to let you annex them or turn them into a protectorate and eventually fully integrate them into your empire. but part of the diplomatic route is maintaining that relationship. now if you forget to touch up on them or fail to aid them during bad galactic events your relationship suffers. And (this is when espionage comes in) another faction could take diplomatic actions to encourage the minor into rebelling or cause the minors to break away.
If you take in minor faction via conquest, they will stay at a state of being disgruntled(less productive), until eventually you break their spirit(full integration). Like above they would be more likely rebel. Especially if you are on the losing side of a war
The path of Genocide is always an option you might be able to recover some of that minor factions unique techs, but for the most part they are gone, and the fact that you killed them will reflect poorly on how other players(AI) will look at you
heck it could be an Amoeba thing to try and make that council happen, even if that means destroying those who oppose the idea of peace.
That would be a great end-goal for the faction quest. They'd have to convince factions to establish a galactic council. Naturally, irreconcilably hostile factions such as the Cravers and Harmony would have to be exterminated first.
Minor factions that offer a bonus on every civ they are allied with (or captured by) giving a unique building-wonder using unique design ships, or i am asking too much? Oh well Birth of the Federation had all those just offering food for thought.
I would like to see minors have more of a political role than just something to either attack or do some strange quest to annex them so you get a unit.I want space opera.
On a tangential note, I would love for a game to offer the opportunity for intrigue that the early chapters of Dune hint at (with all the political maneuvering inside the Landsraad), but game design-wise, it'd be a practical nightmare to come up with and make interesting I believe.
So yes, as close to space opera as we can also gets my vote.
minor fraction are great ideas, since it is the Galaxy we are talking about here.... there are so many planets out there, why not minor fractions?
Some may not even have space traveling tech but already pretty good at managing local system resources, so why not use diplomacy to marry them into a multicultural empire or better trade centric empire everybody loves to do business with? player can off course also play as xenophobe empire that kills every minor fraction but put a population strain on the gamer and bad reputation at diplomacy front.
These minor fractions can also be randomly generated or created by community (unique names, art etc) which downloaded to the game via cloud server at the beginning of the every universe creation, would make each ES2 game truly unique thanks to tweaks in minor fractions.
Your empire in ES2 will be multi-racial: your factions race and any races you have assimilated. The assimilated factions will play a part in your government and influence elections.
Your empire in ES2 will be multi-racial: your factions race and any races you have assimilated. The assimilated factions will play a part in your government and influence elections.
So Pilgrims will vote communist.Let's hope we can bombard populations.
That is interesting that our empire will be multi-racial. I wonder if we have choices to deal with the races like in Age of Wonder where you can resettle cities and create homogenous or heterogenous empires.
Endless Legend's Minor Faction system was a great way to allow factions to round out their military lineup while getting some bonuses, but the factions were quickly reduced to mere numbers as the game progressed (which incidentally also broke the Mercenary Market, for all I can tell, since pacification stopped Mercenary spawn).
For Endless Space 2, I would like to see minor factions that don't just roll over and surrender after assimilation, but are a living part of your empire. Assimilation could also be a more involved process, where you have to keep the faction either happy or repressed until they are ready to be integrated, as citizens in one case and slaves in another.
The way you treat them could indeed have an effect on diplomatic relations, though I would not say that harsh treatment should always result in a penalty. I'm sure Horatio would be happy you're wiping those ugly things from the galaxy (but be unhappy that you are not beautiful.)
I'm not sure if I would prefer minor factions as weak spacefaring races that occupy an entire system or as pre-spaceflight races that are simply a feature of a system you colonize. Perhaps the former, with a simplified diplomacy menu similar to the way Civ5 handled city states: Demand tribute, offer protection, offer gifts, etc. Seeing them expand to another system or two might also be interesting, but at that point we're veering close to major faction territory.
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Would the Sowers exterminate? Their holy task is to terraform planets in the image of the Endless so they might be annoyed at some pesky xenos squatting on them and chopping down forests and stuff.
Falkner wrote: Would the Sowers exterminate? Their holy task is to terraform planets in the image of the Endless so they might be annoyed at some pesky xenos squatting on them and chopping down forests and stuff.
What about Automatons?
The only 2 factions we are certain of are the Sophons and Cravers, and a 3rd might be the winner of EL having escaped Auriga on the Grey Owl.
I'm fairly sure the canonical "winner" of Endless Legend are the Vaulters, given their lore in Endless Space 1. The Necrophages might also have escaped, given the existence of the Cravers, though they may have also been a parallel strain that evolved from the experiments left behind and not fitted with cybernetics. I suspect that the Hissho might also still be around, as I don't think they would have picked a Hissho ship for the EL Quest Victory if they didn't intend to keep them around for ES2.
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On the subject of minor factions what do people think about space pirates? They were often quite unpopular in ES 1 games I recall. With the new trade system it might be nice to see space pirates being pirates rather than just hostile neutrals that spawn in uncolonised systems.
Agreed. The pirates shouldn't just randomly invade systems, at least not in the early game, but rather leech science and Dust from your systems and especially your trade routes. Ideally, we could either employ pirates, or set our own ships to raid systems and trade routes. (On a related note, I'd love to see some visual indication of the trade routes, like the haulers in the Total War games, so we could easily get an impression of where most trade is going.)
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I think they need to use the privateers from EL in ES2. Use the minors as your state sanctioned privateers to raid shipping lanes and lightly defended fringe worlds.
And now I learn that the Hissho have been downgraded to a minor faction. Bummer. I just hope ES2 develops the minor faction system enough that it would allows for meaningful interractions with them.
How about the minor faction population having more concrete effects in gameplay than a simple FIDS bonus? A unique ship type per minor faction? At the very least, the Hissho should make for excellent infantry troops and contribute to the defense of your planet during attempted invasions. It would be even better if the frail races, Amoeba/Sophon/..., can conscript troops from their minor factions and send those to invade the other empires. Would make sense.
rockmassif wrote: Even though I own the game I never actually played Endless Legend. So I can't really comment on what they did with minor factions but in general, I don't like it.
I think many or all systems should have one minor faction (similar to how every region has villages), that you could interact with in a number of ways, from hostility and enslavement, to peaceful integration. One thing I would like to see is that upholding good relations with minor races should be a constant process, and not something that you no longer need to worry about ever once they are pacified. In addition to a happiness meter for your own population, I think there should be a happiness one dedicated to minor factions, and it is something you manage through enacting policies.
Say for instance you assimilate a warmongering race, but you are a pacifist, depriving them of the opportunity to get glory and loot. They shouldn't really be that happy. Or you as an authoritarian empire assimilate a democratic freedom loving race. That too should not be an easy relationship.
Relations with minor factions can perhaps be integrated into empire plans, where you can choose certain policies at the cost of influence that would make some minor factions happy, while make others unhappy.
That way, choosing which minor factions to integrate into one's empire becomes more strategic. Imagine having the dilemma of really wanting a system, but it inhabiting a race that would not be easy to manage, but you're too much of a pacifist or peaceful empire that you don't want to exterminate or enslave them.
I am also of the belief that some factions should not be allowed to assimilate other races. I think for instance that the Horatio would not tolerate having races deemed uglier and lesser to be part of their perfectly beautiful utopia (barring perhaps enslavement). Or the Cravers would only assimilate minor factions, if we use the word "assimilate" and replace it with "consume."
EDIT: also, in order to prevent extermination from being a too easy way out, it should have an impact both with other minor races and other factions. If you exterminate minor races left and right, others will look at you with more suspicion and disdain. Of course if you're the Cravers, you don't care.
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Cole1475 wrote: I don't really have an opinion on minor factions yet. Can someone give me an example of them? where they in endless legend? I've barley played it
Yes, minor factions were in Endless Legend.
Each region had one minor faction in one or more villages. You could either attack said villages, bribe them to join your empire, or parley with them and do quests in order to have them join you (and sometimes they also provide other rewards, depending on the quests). Once these villages are "pacified", they increase the population of the city in the region by 1 for each village.
Once you have villages of a minor faction pacified, you can choose to assimilate them and integrate them even more so into your empire. Doing so provides empire wide bonuses depending on the minor faction you choose to assimilate. For example, assimilating the Silics (essentially like the Harmony from ES) provides a boost to your production of strategic resources. In addition to these empire wide bonuses, you also acquire the ability to produce the minor faction unit, equip it with weapons and armor (which you cannot do with mercenaries), and integrate it into your military doctrine, which is quite an interesting thing to do considering how each major faction has a clear gap or two in its military which can be filled by certain minor factions.
You can only assimilate one minor faction initially, and with some research that number can go up to 3.
For a more in-depth description, consult this page:
Ah, thanks for the quick recap and reply! I think that minor factions could work. It would be safe to assume they work similar to city states in civ V but with some twist.
I think that minor factions have great potential for adding in lore and gameplay variety. But I just don't want them to clog up the map. In ES 1 terms, minor factions would take up alot of space. But My fear my be just nothing, they might have, and probably have, changed the map around a bit to add them in.
But I just don't want them to clog up the map. In ES 1 terms, minor factions would take up alot of space.
The way I'm imagining it they won't take up a lot of space. Imagine a standard game of ES1, perhaps even ES2:
- you've got 100 star systems and 8 major (player controlled) factions
- each star system has several planets
- let's say 14 star systems have a planet on which there is one minor faction. I say 14 because, I think, that's the number of minor factions in Endless Legend
So it's entirely possible for a player to finish a game without ever encountering them. But there's always the chance you can stumble upon them and that adds nice variety to the game.
Furthermore, I think each minor factions should exist on only one planet in the galaxy - it'd be weird if all the same species without spaceflight are all over the galaxy. I also think not every start system should have a minor factions - as far as we know intelligent life is pretty rare in our particular galaxy lol
Falkner wrote: The way I'm imagining it they won't take up a lot of space. Imagine a standard game of ES1, perhaps even ES2:
- you've got 100 star systems and 8 major (player controlled) factions
- each star system has several planets
- let's say 14 star systems have a planet on which there is one minor faction. I say 14 because, I think, that's the number of minor factions in Endless Legend
So it's entirely possible for a player to finish a game without ever encountering them. But there's always the chance you can stumble upon them and that adds nice variety to the game.
Furthermore, I think each minor factions should exist on only one planet in the galaxy - it'd be weird if all the same species without spaceflight are all over the galaxy. I also think not every start system should have a minor factions - as far as we know intelligent life is pretty rare in our particular galaxy lol
Wouldn't they minor factions all have space flight? If they make the system similar to the one in Endless Legend each minor faction will be providing a unit, which in Endless Space terms would be a spaceship.
Adventurer_Blitz wrote: Wouldn't they minor factions all have space flight? If they make the system similar to the one in Endless Legend each minor faction will be providing a unit, which in Endless Space terms would be a spaceship.
Whether minor races have achieved rudimentary space flight or not, it would be a bit out of place to build minor faction ships, when major factions are probably a lot more technologically advanced.
I think it makes more sense to have assimilated minor factions provide unique modules for your ships. Say you assimilate a race of brutish and powerful warriors. You can thus acquire a unique invasion module that is much better than traditional invasion modules, which you can only build on their star system (and like any invasion module, it takes away from population so you can't spam it infinitely). This would significantly boost your invasion power. Or say another race of psychics that can enhance the accuracy and focus of your crew through meditation. Once assimilated, they can provide you with a ship module that acts as a better sensor module....etc. Or a race of naturally gifted pilots, providing enhanced fighter and bomber modules.
I think that would allow minor factions to be integrated into major factions' military forces, without it feeling out of place, imo.
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Wouldn't they minor factions all have space flight? If they make the system similar to the one in Endless Legend each minor faction will be providing a unit, which in Endless Space terms would be a spaceship.
That's the trouble - if each provides a ship then that's a lot of work for Amplitude. They'll have to design it, animate it, create sound effects for it... Now, I wouldn't mind having each minor faction bringing a ship but I doubt that's how it will be as it requires lots of work.
What if minor factions provide special modules? That would be easy to implement - just write the description and code in the stats. By module I mean the things you put on ships in ES1's ship creator. So a warrior faction would allow you to put a unique troop module for your ships. Another faction might have unique bomber modules (for planetary invasions). Yet another faction could have very advanced laser/kinetic/whatever weapon tech and give you a unique module of that for your ships.
EDIT: Great minds think alike, don't we KnightofPhoenix? lol
EDIT: Great minds think alike, don't we KnightofPhoenix? lol
Indeed they do
I would still hope that these special modules have a bit of a visual effect to them. It was a bit disheartening to see ships in ES not have their appearance altered a bit when upgrading them.
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Even though I own the game I never actually played Endless Legend. So I can't really comment on what they did with minor factions but in general, I don't like it.
Taking this idea and running in the opposite direction, I'd like to see a mechanic in which one of the races in space is a major player, much more advanced than others but sort of uninterested in supremacy, knowing that none of the other races is on the same level.
If you have read Old Man's War by John Scalzi, this idea is obviously based on the Consu race, which are sometimes picking fights with other races, but seem to be mostly doing it "for sport". I realize this is a wild idea and I have no idea how it would be implemented to make sense (despite not being played by a human, I guess?).
Something that could be interesting would be factions having specific ways of winning, like some board games do:
- What if one race wants to "build an ark" and encounter and "save" as many other races as possible?
- What if that vastly superior race mentioned above wants to make sure no other race gets superior to another, keeping some sort of balance in the galaxy by making sure no one gets to finish off anyone else?
... I realize I'm spitballing here, sorry guys I'm just excited.
So far we know that ES2 will have minor factions. The purpose of this topic is to discuss how they can be implemented. A straighforward copy of EL's minor faction system into ES2 is the easiest thing to do but I believe this mechanic deserves to be further developed.
I've always wanted a space game with minor factions - species that have not achieved interstellar spaceflight but are still enough of a force to be reckoned with when colonizing a planet. What I would love to see is a system allowing us different ways of dealing with the natives: conquest, enslavement, assimilation and etc.
Imagine that you are a spacefaring faction and discover a planet which already has a minor civilization on it. There are several ways to proceed:
a) exterminate the natives and settle your own people. This would require sending troops, so you may not do it with a single colony ship without escorts. It may have negative effects on the planet quality as a result of battle damage or perhaps a sufficiently unprepared invasion may even fail!
b) enslave the natives, you'd need troops to accomplish this. It would raise FIDS output but lower approval. Increase the risks of rebellions that may damage infrastructure or even overthrow your governors if the planetary garrison is weak enough.
c) fulfill a quest so that the natives accept to be integrated in your empire. This should give you a FIDS bonus and some unique bonus - the natives may prove to be great at urban combat so now you can build superior troop modules for invasions.
I believe that such a system would not be too onerous to implement. A minor faction requires:
- one concept art
- one paragraph's worth of lore
And I'm sure we can all agree that Amplitude has fantastic creative talent
It won't require designing, animating and implementing unique ships, a diplomatic avatar, unique tech-tree and etc.
Your empire in ES2 will be multi-racial: your faction's race and any races you have assimilated. The assimilated factions will play a part in your government and influence elections.
Nasarog wrote: Didn't see anyone post this, but imagine if the minor factions function somewhere between civ5 (city states), GC2/3, AoW3 (minor independents) and EL.
This way they can be pirates, self sufficient systems, trading partners, or integrated population of your empire.
Something like this would be fun, though I also enjoy the concept of having an integrated minor faction be a sort of automated second faction within your empire. Like you set their behaviors and they run the script -- have them automatically colonize selected systems, form an a blockade of a specific route in part of your empire that you're not focusing on, etc. Have them use a color-shifted variant of your ship tech and colonized planet graphics (when applicable), and allow them to have a minor diplomacy role (boosts/detriments based on their traits). This might be a little too much to ask though. ^_^
I'd like to see it. Your treatment of minors should have effect on diplomacy - if you go exterminating them left and right the other major empires should be more reluctant to deal with you, especially if they have integrated their own minor factions. And you should get a diplomacy bonus if you have peacefully integrated minors.
Osmedirez wrote: I also enjoy the concept of having an integrated minor faction be a sort of automated second faction within your empire.
I agree, a higher level of autonomy would make minor factions more enjoyable than the ones in EL. Imo the minors in EL were boring, just kinda sat there and gave stat bonuses and let you build units.
I'd like to see Minor Factions be more dynamic than how they are in Endless Legend. Where they have their own ships(more than one class), technology tree(albeit far more limited than a main players) as well as unique techs(although), and have the ability to expand to other planets.(ei, a minor faction that is basically the Broken Lords from EL their homeworld is a Desert Planet and as their tech tree expands they will start to colonize Arid Worlds and maybe Terran ones. and depending on the RNG your you may start with a minor faction in your starting constellation and you may have to fight them or try diplomacy to make peace or even allow integration with your empire(giving you access to their technologies)
I definitely like the idea of minor factions having preferred planet types they can expand to. Maybe not full colonies beyond their homeworld but maybe outposts you can exterminate, enslave, or integrate. Some like arid worlds, others like oceans, still others like gas giants or asteroids, etc.
I think a mixture of Galactic Civ 2 and Endless Legend minor factions would be interesting.
In Galactic Civ 2, minor factions stayed on one planets (unless you gave them planets, in which case they start to expand), they have a small economy, a small military, some tech...etc. You can establish commerce with them, economic and research treaties, give them weapons, buy and sell tech, buy influence points from them (which gives you more votes in the United Planets council)...etc. The cool thing about them however is that sometimes galactic events occurred where new minor factions emerge that have several planets (and an alignment) quickly becoming a major power, or sometimes a minor race steals a major faction's tech which you can get in exchange for something...etc. Minor factions felt alive and you could interact with them. However, they all operated the same way (minus those galactic events big minor factions with an alignment that hate other alignments), and you were limited in how to integrate them into your empire (essentially you don't, they remain independent but potentially within your sphere of influence).
So having the ability to integrate and assimilate a variety of diverse minor factions for unique bonuses and military assets as in EL, would be a very nice addition to the aforementioned formula. That, in addition to having the ability to exterminate or enslave.
I think having the best of both worlds is possible, or at least it seems within the realm of possibility.
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KnightofPhoenix wrote: (which gives you more votes in the United Planets council)
I can't see this becoming a thing. In Civ it makes sense, because throughout history there were several attempts at global peace councils, but in a vast universe we're exploring and expanding into, it wouldn't make much sense. Can you imagine a Cravers representative just chilling there while you're trying to pass a motion banning war? No, the Cravers rep would have come in guns blazing with his 200 friends and burned the place to the ground.
It's interesting to see other factions react to your treatment of minor factions, but I don't see a global diplomatic attempt being a thing that makes sense. In traditional SF, these kind of overarching organizations are typically seen in much more stable/advanced universes, such as Dune's Landsraad or the Conclave in Scalzi's Old Man's War (other SF universes I'm thinking of with multiple races don't seem to have such a body, like David Brin's Uplift universe).
On an unrelated note, I would for these minor factions to add a certain flair to the UI, their own personal touch. It would be pretty rad.
Oh I agree, I don't think a galactic council thing can work in the context of Endless Space. The closest thing we can hope for is to have interactions and coordination within alliances and coalitions, as opposed to the basic alliance system that we have.
I was just using the influence of Galactic Civ as one example of how you can interact with minor factions.
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Fair enough, I thought you were volunteering a feature.
I do like the idea of minor factions having a certain weight in the grand scheme of things... heck it could be an Amoeba thing to try and make that council happen, even if that means destroying those who oppose the idea of peace.
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Shifter
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Refreezerator
Bah humbug!
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Frogsquadron / François (\franswa\) "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas."
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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain
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Chameleon
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Glassteel
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Literary
To Boldly Go...
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