Minor factions in ES2, thoughts, wishes and speculation - Endless Space 2

Minor factions in ES2, thoughts, wishes and speculation

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Minor factions were a mistake and ES2 is better off without them

ES2 should have EL's minor factions system

ES2 should further develop the minor factions system

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VIPThe-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

Shifter

VIPThe-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

Shifter

9 years ago

Aug 12, 2015, 5:56:08 PM

Agreed. The pirates shouldn't just randomly invade systems, at least not in the early game, but rather leech science and Dust from your systems and especially your trade routes. Ideally, we could either employ pirates, or set our own ships to raid systems and trade routes. (On a related note, I'd love to see some visual indication of the trade routes, like the haulers in the Total War games, so we could easily get an impression of where most trade is going.)

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VIPNasarog

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VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

9 years ago

Aug 12, 2015, 7:04:59 PM

I think they need to use the privateers from EL in ES2. Use the minors as your state sanctioned privateers to raid shipping lanes and lightly defended fringe worlds.

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Falkner

Lord

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Falkner

Lord

9 years ago

Nov 1, 2015, 9:01:22 PM

Can the next game design document be on the minor factions?

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Falkner

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Falkner

Lord

8 years ago

Jul 10, 2016, 11:33:12 AM

And now I learn that the Hissho have been downgraded to a minor faction. Bummer. I just hope ES2 develops the minor faction system enough that it would allows for meaningful interractions with them.

How about the minor faction population having more concrete effects in gameplay than a simple FIDS bonus? A unique ship type per minor faction? At the very least, the Hissho should make for excellent infantry troops and contribute to the defense of your planet during attempted invasions. It would be even better if the frail races, Amoeba/Sophon/..., can conscript troops from their minor factions and send those to invade the other empires. Would make sense.

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Brazilian_Joe

Refreezerator

Bah humbug!

Brazilian_Joe

Refreezerator

8 years ago

Jul 10, 2016, 2:13:07 PM

Minor factions should bestow some FIDSI bonuses and also unlock access to custom tech, as well as being a source of a specific type of resource.

I would like to see a space slug race which inhabits asteroids only, they eat rock and poop refined minerals.

Each sluggery (a a colony of slugs) would have a favorite food/mineral and would convert certain resources into another type, if fed with it.

You are basically giving food to a giant space worm and harvesting their poop. :shrug:

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DEVFrogsquadron

Broken

Frogsquadron / François (\franswa\) "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas."

DEVFrogsquadron

Broken

8 years ago

Jul 19, 2016, 8:37:06 AM

What a crappy idea...

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Falkner

Lord

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Falkner

Lord

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 4:45:14 PM

rockmassif wrote:
Even though I own the game I never actually played Endless Legend. So I can't really comment on what they did with minor factions but in general, I don't like it.

Give it a try. It's a good game.

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 12:18:33 AM

I think many or all systems should have one minor faction (similar to how every region has villages), that you could interact with in a number of ways, from hostility and enslavement, to peaceful integration. One thing I would like to see is that upholding good relations with minor races should be a constant process, and not something that you no longer need to worry about ever once they are pacified. In addition to a happiness meter for your own population, I think there should be a happiness one dedicated to minor factions, and it is something you manage through enacting policies.

Say for instance you assimilate a warmongering race, but you are a pacifist, depriving them of the opportunity to get glory and loot. They shouldn't really be that happy. Or you as an authoritarian empire assimilate a democratic freedom loving race. That too should not be an easy relationship.

Relations with minor factions can perhaps be integrated into empire plans, where you can choose certain policies at the cost of influence that would make some minor factions happy, while make others unhappy.

That way, choosing which minor factions to integrate into one's empire becomes more strategic. Imagine having the dilemma of really wanting a system, but it inhabiting a race that would not be easy to manage, but you're too much of a pacifist or peaceful empire that you don't want to exterminate or enslave them.

I am also of the belief that some factions should not be allowed to assimilate other races. I think for instance that the Horatio would not tolerate having races deemed uglier and lesser to be part of their perfectly beautiful utopia (barring perhaps enslavement). Or the Cravers would only assimilate minor factions, if we use the word "assimilate" and replace it with "consume."

EDIT: also, in order to prevent extermination from being a too easy way out, it should have an impact both with other minor races and other factions. If you exterminate minor races left and right, others will look at you with more suspicion and disdain. Of course if you're the Cravers, you don't care.

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Cole1475

Old

Cole1475

Old

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 12:52:22 AM

I don't really have an opinion on minor factions yet. Can someone give me an example of them? where they in endless legend? I've barley played it

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VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

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VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 12:56:09 AM

I love th minors, and I want more in ES2.

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 1:00:50 AM

Cole1475 wrote:
I don't really have an opinion on minor factions yet. Can someone give me an example of them? where they in endless legend? I've barley played it

Yes, minor factions were in Endless Legend.

Each region had one minor faction in one or more villages. You could either attack said villages, bribe them to join your empire, or parley with them and do quests in order to have them join you (and sometimes they also provide other rewards, depending on the quests). Once these villages are "pacified", they increase the population of the city in the region by 1 for each village.

Once you have villages of a minor faction pacified, you can choose to assimilate them and integrate them even more so into your empire. Doing so provides empire wide bonuses depending on the minor faction you choose to assimilate. For example, assimilating the Silics (essentially like the Harmony from ES) provides a boost to your production of strategic resources. In addition to these empire wide bonuses, you also acquire the ability to produce the minor faction unit, equip it with weapons and armor (which you cannot do with mercenaries), and integrate it into your military doctrine, which is quite an interesting thing to do considering how each major faction has a clear gap or two in its military which can be filled by certain minor factions.

You can only assimilate one minor faction initially, and with some research that number can go up to 3.

For a more in-depth description, consult this page:

http://endless-legend.wikia.com/wiki/Minor_Factions

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Cole1475

Old

Cole1475

Old

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 1:06:20 AM

Ah, thanks for the quick recap and reply! I think that minor factions could work. It would be safe to assume they work similar to city states in civ V but with some twist.

I think that minor factions have great potential for adding in lore and gameplay variety. But I just don't want them to clog up the map. In ES 1 terms, minor factions would take up alot of space. But My fear my be just nothing, they might have, and probably have, changed the map around a bit to add them in.

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Falkner

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Falkner

Lord

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 1:48:42 AM

But I just don't want them to clog up the map. In ES 1 terms, minor factions would take up alot of space.

The way I'm imagining it they won't take up a lot of space. Imagine a standard game of ES1, perhaps even ES2:

- you've got 100 star systems and 8 major (player controlled) factions

- each star system has several planets

- let's say 14 star systems have a planet on which there is one minor faction. I say 14 because, I think, that's the number of minor factions in Endless Legend

So it's entirely possible for a player to finish a game without ever encountering them. But there's always the chance you can stumble upon them and that adds nice variety to the game.

Furthermore, I think each minor factions should exist on only one planet in the galaxy - it'd be weird if all the same species without spaceflight are all over the galaxy. I also think not every start system should have a minor factions - as far as we know intelligent life is pretty rare in our particular galaxy lol

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VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

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VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 1:52:45 AM

Falkner wrote:
The way I'm imagining it they won't take up a lot of space. Imagine a standard game of ES1, perhaps even ES2:

- you've got 100 star systems and 8 major (player controlled) factions

- each star system has several planets

- let's say 14 star systems have a planet on which there is one minor faction. I say 14 because, I think, that's the number of minor factions in Endless Legend

So it's entirely possible for a player to finish a game without ever encountering them. But there's always the chance you can stumble upon them and that adds nice variety to the game.

Furthermore, I think each minor factions should exist on only one planet in the galaxy - it'd be weird if all the same species without spaceflight are all over the galaxy. I also think not every start system should have a minor factions - as far as we know intelligent life is pretty rare in our particular galaxy lol

Wouldn't they minor factions all have space flight? If they make the system similar to the one in Endless Legend each minor faction will be providing a unit, which in Endless Space terms would be a spaceship.

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 2:01:18 AM

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
Wouldn't they minor factions all have space flight? If they make the system similar to the one in Endless Legend each minor faction will be providing a unit, which in Endless Space terms would be a spaceship.

Whether minor races have achieved rudimentary space flight or not, it would be a bit out of place to build minor faction ships, when major factions are probably a lot more technologically advanced.

I think it makes more sense to have assimilated minor factions provide unique modules for your ships. Say you assimilate a race of brutish and powerful warriors. You can thus acquire a unique invasion module that is much better than traditional invasion modules, which you can only build on their star system (and like any invasion module, it takes away from population so you can't spam it infinitely). This would significantly boost your invasion power. Or say another race of psychics that can enhance the accuracy and focus of your crew through meditation. Once assimilated, they can provide you with a ship module that acts as a better sensor module....etc. Or a race of naturally gifted pilots, providing enhanced fighter and bomber modules.

I think that would allow minor factions to be integrated into major factions' military forces, without it feeling out of place, imo.

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Falkner

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Falkner

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9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 2:04:07 AM

Wouldn't they minor factions all have space flight? If they make the system similar to the one in Endless Legend each minor faction will be providing a unit, which in Endless Space terms would be a spaceship.

That's the trouble - if each provides a ship then that's a lot of work for Amplitude. They'll have to design it, animate it, create sound effects for it... Now, I wouldn't mind having each minor faction bringing a ship but I doubt that's how it will be as it requires lots of work.

What if minor factions provide special modules? That would be easy to implement - just write the description and code in the stats. By module I mean the things you put on ships in ES1's ship creator. So a warrior faction would allow you to put a unique troop module for your ships. Another faction might have unique bomber modules (for planetary invasions). Yet another faction could have very advanced laser/kinetic/whatever weapon tech and give you a unique module of that for your ships.

EDIT: Great minds think alike, don't we KnightofPhoenix? lol

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 2:07:57 AM

Falkner wrote:

EDIT: Great minds think alike, don't we KnightofPhoenix? lol

Indeed they do

I would still hope that these special modules have a bit of a visual effect to them. It was a bit disheartening to see ships in ES not have their appearance altered a bit when upgrading them.

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rockmassif

Officer

rockmassif

Officer

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 8:04:30 AM

Even though I own the game I never actually played Endless Legend. So I can't really comment on what they did with minor factions but in general, I don't like it.

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the_wamburger

Newcomer

the_wamburger

Newcomer

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 11:26:29 AM

Taking this idea and running in the opposite direction, I'd like to see a mechanic in which one of the races in space is a major player, much more advanced than others but sort of uninterested in supremacy, knowing that none of the other races is on the same level.

If you have read Old Man's War by John Scalzi, this idea is obviously based on the Consu race, which are sometimes picking fights with other races, but seem to be mostly doing it "for sport". I realize this is a wild idea and I have no idea how it would be implemented to make sense (despite not being played by a human, I guess?).

Something that could be interesting would be factions having specific ways of winning, like some board games do:

- What if one race wants to "build an ark" and encounter and "save" as many other races as possible?

- What if that vastly superior race mentioned above wants to make sure no other race gets superior to another, keeping some sort of balance in the galaxy by making sure no one gets to finish off anyone else?

... I realize I'm spitballing here, sorry guys I'm just excited.

smiley: redface

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Falkner

Lord

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Falkner

Lord

9 years ago

Jul 31, 2015, 12:06:00 AM

So far we know that ES2 will have minor factions. The purpose of this topic is to discuss how they can be implemented. A straighforward copy of EL's minor faction system into ES2 is the easiest thing to do but I believe this mechanic deserves to be further developed.

I've always wanted a space game with minor factions - species that have not achieved interstellar spaceflight but are still enough of a force to be reckoned with when colonizing a planet. What I would love to see is a system allowing us different ways of dealing with the natives: conquest, enslavement, assimilation and etc.

Imagine that you are a spacefaring faction and discover a planet which already has a minor civilization on it. There are several ways to proceed:

a) exterminate the natives and settle your own people. This would require sending troops, so you may not do it with a single colony ship without escorts. It may have negative effects on the planet quality as a result of battle damage or perhaps a sufficiently unprepared invasion may even fail!

b) enslave the natives, you'd need troops to accomplish this. It would raise FIDS output but lower approval. Increase the risks of rebellions that may damage infrastructure or even overthrow your governors if the planetary garrison is weak enough.

c) fulfill a quest so that the natives accept to be integrated in your empire. This should give you a FIDS bonus and some unique bonus - the natives may prove to be great at urban combat so now you can build superior troop modules for invasions.

I believe that such a system would not be too onerous to implement. A minor faction requires:

- one concept art

- one paragraph's worth of lore

And I'm sure we can all agree that Amplitude has fantastic creative talent

It won't require designing, animating and implementing unique ships, a diplomatic avatar, unique tech-tree and etc.

EDIT: NEW INFO

As announced in http://www.press-start.be/2015/08/gc15-endless-space-2/

Your empire in ES2 will be multi-racial: your faction's race and any races you have assimilated. The assimilated factions will play a part in your government and influence elections.

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