please please please. Can we go o a civil war and mass murder people that are not like you ?

- in game i mean ... !

I had hoped for "The game tracks the faction of each population point and applies minor FIDSI changes to each." This is so much more than I had hoped for.

Steph'nie wrote:
Special Traits

Traits have Effects on the System’s economy (mediocre Industry, powerful Science, etc.). Those traits could define an extra upkeep or a very low one. Traits could also have Special Effects on Systems…

This should help to make specific population worth striving for. Or possible make bombing runs more appealing as you really don't want those cowardly Harushem in your mighty empire.

Steph'nie wrote:
Growth depends, as usual, on Food produced by the System (but some could maybe use something else…). This first stock is split between populations on the System. Each population “eats” this Food (Population Upkeep), in function of their numbers but also in function of the laws, their Traits, etc.

The rest of those stocks “Net Growth”, increases the Faction growth.

If a population’s Food Upkeep cost is higher than its own share, they start to lose population (the number of turns before population loss depends on the difference between the “Food Share” and the Upkeep cost).

The food share is the total of harvested food on the System per turn and split between all the factions living on the System according to the number of citizens.

So, for example: you have 2 Haroshems and 1 Sophon: Haroshems’ share will be 2/3 of Food and the Sophon’s one is 1/3 of the food.

Different amounts of food consumption per pop? I could imagine a minor faction that gives massive boosts to several FIDSI, but consumes several times as much food as usual, making them difficult to maintain.

Steph'nie wrote:
Overcolonization (the more the Empire is expanded, the more difficult it is to maintain a good coherence) depends on the selected Galaxy size.

Approval is a way for players to understand the quality of their Empire management.[/QUOTE]



Excellent news. No longer will huge maps lead to potentially crippling disapproval until all related techs are researched.

Steph'nie wrote:
As you can see, the Propaganda depends on a political ideology. It will be increased as long as the Propaganda is used in the System.

The player will obtain Propaganda if the corresponding Ideology has been elected in the Senate.



All the populations in the Radius could immigrate to the Propaganda Systems. It is also the case of all the Populations in the Systems linked to the Propaganda System. The System ownership (the Empire A or the Empire B) doesn’t matter here. If there is no population of the corresponding type, the Propaganda is inefficient, and the player is aware of that (he can remove it or use another one). Obviously, the player can see who is migrating and where they come from.

As the opponent, to avoid the migration of my population to my enemy’s System, I can “Close my Border” (Diplomatic Action) or apply my own Propaganda to leech the other System’s population.

Finally, Propaganda power (how much growth it leeches) depends on the amount of Industry of the System. It could depend on something else, but Industry is the base of this System.

So you're saying that an industrialist faction that discovers the cravers are next door might turn militaristic out of fear, and then run military propaganda to have the cravers settle on their system to strengthen the militaristic influence in their senate in order to enact aggressive laws?

There's so much that could be done with a mechanic like this. I like it. Though I do agree that attracting cravers feels off.





Now, for some questions:

When population grows naturally through Food surplus, how does the game determine which population group receives a new population point?

Can actions and laws affect the effects of certain population, for example particularly militaristic laws causing a small approval hit for each pacifistic population?

How likely are the propaganda and migration mechanics to be open to modding? I'm sure many players would like to see an approval-based variant.

Will Colony Ships take specific population, or always settle new worlds with your core faction population?

Might there be an option of "Forced Migration" to transfer a specific population to a different planet across your empire, for example building a (colony) ship to load some sophons from that newly conquered system to that system way in the back of your empire that has all the science-focused gas giants?

When taking a world by force, will there be different options on how to treat the natives? Full Assimilation (pops unchanged from base), slavery (increased FIDSI output, reduced maintenance, approval penalty), "purge" (kill most or all native population, retain one core population per colonized planet, potentially diplomatic repercussions), "Dinner" (remove all pop, add large number of craver pop)?

Have you considered trade routes expanding the reach of your propaganda inside empires with which you trade?

Could there perhaps be minor (or major) factions adapted to specific planet types, e.g. Deuyivans not receiving any approval penalty on Gas Giants and gaining enough food on them to sustain themselves?

That sounds interesting, I wonder how it will be in the game.



One question:

Can I avoid the effect of my own propaganda on a single system because I don´t want that this particular system loses population?

Cravers would migrate to a Sophon Empire? Not sure this is work with the lore of the game.

Ashbery76 wrote:
Cravers would migrate to a Sophon Empire? Not sure this is work with the lore of the game.

Even more unlikely will be Cravers that migrate to a Haroshems empire... two soo radically different population types shouldn't mix at all in a system... and btw, who are Haroshems? didn't heard of them before!

Keymaster89 wrote:
Even more unlikely will be Cravers that migrate to a Haroshems empire... two soo radically different population types shouldn't mix at all in a system... and btw, who are Haroshems? didn't heard of them before!

It seems that the Haroshems are the minor race we already have see before.



In the one picture about election you can see one I think.

/#/endless-space-2/forum/65-general/thread/18859-art-and-screenshots-of-endless-space-2

Makes sense for population to be faction-specific. Probably gonna be interesting gameplay-wise. Though I feel like Migration shouldn't be linked to Propaganda as much as Approval. Population should try to move to systems with more approval than the one they're in, slightly prefering systems within their home empire to foreign ones. Propaganda should then built upon that, making systems more attractive despite(Or in addition to) approval. This would also lead to population balancing out between systems more or less. This would make sense, since historically, people did migrate into the colonies, and the way I recommend it as a whole makes sense since people generally speaking want to live where it is the most nice, not where the Minstry of Truth tells them to.



I think there's also a lot of potential for faction-specific stuff here. There could be a faction that specialises on approval and propaganda to steal others good pops while having crappy population of their own, and there could be a faction that tightly controls their population and has forced relocations and makes it really difficult for their pops to leave even without locked down borders.

Teslaflux wrote:
It seems that the Haroshems are the minor race we already have see before.



In the one picture about election you can see one I think.

/#/endless-space-2/forum/65-general/thread/18859-art-and-screenshots-of-endless-space-2

They were also mentioned once in "The Last Flight of the Gray Owl".



/#/endless-legend/forum/6-game-design/thread/3572-the-last-flight-of-the-gray-owl

Yes! After month of Annalise and deductions, I finally discover the truth that try to hide:

They will be humans in ES2.

First off, I like it. It makes optimizing your Empire more interactive, and it makes me as the player feel like I'm the Illuminati controlling the lives of billions through soft-control and manipulation.



The Propaganda system sounds like it only redirects population growth, so affected neighboring systems fail to grow but never actually lose population. Is this the case, or can you 'steal' population?



Will there be a new victory condition related to this mechanic? This seems like it could be the basis of a Cultural Victory like Civ 5, or it could count towards a diplomatic victory.



Will Propaganda ever allow you to "flip" affected systems to your control? Or are we still saying that can only be done by military means.

Thats a pretty nice idea



looking forward to build a wall around my planet to stop the migrants

I want to play this game so hard ^^'

Hello everyone! We've spent a lot of time on population features, we hope this document will answer your questions and expectations.











Rationale



Population should be the heart of Endless Space 2. It should react differently to the player’s play-style and to their decisions. Populations bring life to the game thanks to their reactions.





Definition



A Faction

A population could come from a Minor or a Major Faction.

It owns a Home System (there could be several Home Systems, if the Faction has been generated several times).

It has a Lore: it is the same for all populations from the same Faction.



Example:[/B] Empire A and Empire B have Sophons in their Empires. All Sophons are described the same way.



The Faction will define Special Traits and Personality.



Special Traits

Traits have Effects on the System’s economy (mediocre Industry, powerful Science, etc.). Those traits could define an extra upkeep or a very low one. Traits could also have Special Effects on Systems…





Personality

Basic Political Ideology - depending on the faction - the population will have a default favourite political ideology. Of course, the percentage of the population voting for this original ideology will decrease or increase according to the player’s choices. It is just a basic value, allowing the player to keep, thanks to a Sophon minority for example, some leeway to pass Scientific Laws.



Basic Political Ideologies: Pacifist, Militarist, Scientific, Religious, Ecologist, and Industrialist.



The political Score (sent by the Basic Political Ideology) is calculated at the beginning of each turn, and removed at the end: this score can only increase or decrease according to population growth/decline.



Psychological Traits – Each population has between 1 and 3 Psychological Traits. They define how population reacts to the player’s decisions and to game events. They increase a political score, multiplied by the number of citizens and the value of each “Psychological-Trait”. They allow each population to react differently.

Content example: Xenophobic, Altruist, Curious, Scheming, Builder…



Example: If the player communicates with a foreign Empire, Cravers will react militarily, contrarily to Sophons, who will react pacifically.

The political score sent by the Psychological Traits depends on events occurring in the System and/or in the Empire: new trade route, new governor, etc. They are added each time to the population’s political score. So, they can completely overwhelm the Basic Political Value and turn your Scientist Sophon population into a frenzied Militarist population.

Population influences deeply the Political Situation of your Empire.





Live Together



The population of a System could be composed by several people from different Factions. In the planet, you can see one Craver, two Sophons and 5 Haroshems. And of course their specificities are all applied (economic bonuses are added – or removed -, political opinions are computed, they react differently to an event etc.)





Growth



Growth depends, as usual, on Food produced by the System (but some could maybe use something else…). This first stock is split between populations on the System. Each population “eats” this Food (Population Upkeep), in function of their numbers but also in function of the laws, their Traits, etc.

The rest of those stocks “Net Growth”, increases the Faction growth.

If a population’s Food Upkeep cost is higher than its own share, they start to lose population (the number of turns before population loss depends on the difference between the “Food Share” and the Upkeep cost).

The food share is the total of harvested food on the System per turn and split between all the factions living on the System according to the number of citizens.

So, for example: you have 2 Haroshems and 1 Sophon: Haroshems’ share will be 2/3 of Food and the Sophon’s one is 1/3 of the food.





Approval



Approval depends on the System and the Empire Status: it is the System “stability”.

• Buildings
• Laws
• Etc.
  
  

The approval is still impacted by Overpopulation:

• ¾ of the planet’s slots are filled.
  
  

Overcolonization (the more the Empire is expanded, the more difficult it is to maintain a good coherence) depends on the selected Galaxy size.

Approval is a way for players to understand the quality of their Empire management.



Furthermore, Approval has 5 Statuses:

• In Rebellion [0;10]
• Unhappy [10;30]
• Content [30;70]
• Happy [70;90]
• Ecstatic [90;100]
  
  

As you can see, the statuses are pretty asymmetrical! Thanks to the VIPs suggestions, we’re thinking about reduce the “Content” values but the edge statuses: In Rebellion and Ecstatic should stay (for now) very special. In consequence, we want keep them rare and important. They could trigger quests or events, abled to handicap/advantage the player’s gameplay and bring life on this system…

Approval affects Growth. If a System is not stable enough, consumption of resources increases; if the population is happy, it multiplies quickly. The other effect is Influence Production: your “cultural influence” progress (as positive reputation) if Approval is high. But if the population is unsatisfied, is logically decreases, losing is importance in the Empire and, in a large scale, in the Galaxy.





New Population



To see new citizens in your Empire, you can use only the natural growth: the population “eats” and multiplies. But there are also some ways to do it:



Propaganda

The player needs to send to the Construction Queue an Infinite Improvement called “Propaganda”. When Propaganda is in the first spot in the Construction Queue it attracts all the Population, depending on their Political ideology.

• Militarist Propaganda: The System attracts the Militarist Faction: the Cravers.
• Scientific Propaganda: The System attracts the Scientific Faction: the Sophons.
  
  
• Of course, the Militarist faction could be something else than the Cravers. To be considered as a Militarist, we look at the “Basic Political Ideology of the Population”.
  
  

Example:[/B] Let’s attract some Scientists.

The player applies the Scientific Propaganda in the System in the middle (blue). Around, there are 3 Systems. 2 of them contain Sophons, scientist people. 2 of them contain Haroshems, pacifist people.

So, the Propaganda effect will be:

No matter the population on the Propaganda System, Sophons are coming.



As you can see, the Propaganda depends on a political ideology. It will be increased as long as the Propaganda is used in the System.

The player will obtain Propaganda if the corresponding Ideology has been elected in the Senate.

Example:[/B] If your Senate is composed by Militarist, Pacifist and Scientific, you will be able to attract Haroshems (Pacifist), Sophons (Scientific), Militarist (Cravers).



The Concrete effect of the Propaganda is to “leech” the growth of the Population living in the surrounding Systems (linked by lanes or in a given radius). For some turns, population growth will be sent in the propaganda-System. When the growth leeched is sufficient, a new citizen will appear…



Let’s see an example:

We see some nodes linked in the Galaxy. Now, apply a first Propaganda in a System:

All the populations in the Radius could immigrate to the Propaganda Systems. It is also the case of all the Populations in the Systems linked to the Propaganda System. The System ownership (the Empire A or the Empire B) doesn’t matter here. If there is no population of the corresponding type, the Propaganda is inefficient, and the player is aware of that (he can remove it or use another one). Obviously, the player can see who is migrating and where they come from.

As the opponent, to avoid the migration of my population to my enemy’s System, I can “Close my Border” (Diplomatic Action) or apply my own Propaganda to leech the other System’s population.

Finally, Propaganda power (how much growth it leeches) depends on the amount of Industry of the System. It could depend on something else, but Industry is the base of this System.



The Propaganda is the “migratory” way to grab new population but there are others. We tried spontaneous migration, depending on the population’s approval/desires/lore but the player hadn’t any control upon this system. It was a little bit annoying for him.





Capture

If the player captures an Enemy’s System, like in the previous games, the player will obtain the Systems with the Improvement, the planets colonized etc. But, in Endless Space 2, they also receive the population. It is a simple way to add new factions (their bonus, political opinions…) in your Empire. From now on, they are able to migrate thanks to the Propaganda System in your Empire.

If they have a political ideology which is unknown to their Empire, the player will have to wait for its appearance in his Senate.





Assimilation

The Minor Factions in the Galaxy can also be assimilated by the player. When their Home Systems become part of the player’s Empire (negotiation/quest or because of war), their bonus and their political opinions will be integrated in your Empire (like in the Capture feature).





We look forward to reading your feedback.

This sounds awesome! I can't wait to see a rainbow of races under my empire. Apart from ideologies, do the different races have any effect on my empire? I know in Endless Legend, absorbing a Minor Faction provided a global bonus. Does reaching a certain amount of population with a Minor/Major Faction provide any such bonus?

Romeo wrote:
This sounds awesome! I can't wait to see a rainbow of races under my empire. Apart from ideologies, do the different races have any effect on my empire? I know in Endless Legend, absorbing a Minor Faction provided a global bonus. Does reaching a certain amount of population with a Minor/Major Faction provide any such bonus?

I'm not sure about Empire wide effects, but I do believe they at the very least clearly plan planet-bound effects. The "effects on the system's economy" they mention had already been glimpsed in past videos/screenshots. They way that tooltip reads makes me think that every Sophon population will produce double the planet's Science, but only half industry. (Also, for some reason Sophon are perpetually happy, what with the +25 approval per pop in that tooltip).

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
I'm not sure about Empire wide effects, but I do believe they at the very least clearly plan planet-bound effects. The "effects on the system's economy" they mention had already been glimpsed in past videos/screenshots. They way that tooltip reads makes me think that every Sophon population will produce double the planet's Science, but only half industry. (Also, for some reason Sophon are perpetually happy, what with the +25 approval per pop in that tooltip).

Thanks Cat, I missed that! That's a nifty gameplay addition.



Super excited to get my greedy little hands on this.

I enjoy the amount of depth the population mechanics will provide ES 2!

If each race's population are unique the replay-ability and complexity of the game will be enormous!



Will non-chosen faction populations spawn within the game map?

Depending upon which factions are played/un-chosen, players will have to adjust their game play to the type of populations available. If there is a way to gain and grow a non-chosen/ un-played faction population, unique/crazy play-styles (dependent upon faction match-ups) will be steamrolled by consistently preforming play-styles and complexity will suffer.

Event population gain (of a random faction/minor) could be that tipping point.



Will minor faction be the same every game? Or will there be a rotation/randomness to it?

Minor faction populations could be just as influential to the game as major faction populations. I'd like to see compatibly between major/minor populations influence the game to a degree in making certain strategies more appealing.



I wish to see crazy population strategies that could work if 2 or 3 factions where in play (like super militaristic or wonder builder racing) yet be unlikely if those 3 where not in play.



Special Traits:

Are population traits select-able, randomly given through events, or always present upon that certain faction population?



Will players be able to move populations around (in the same system) to different colonized planets?



Everyone loves to obtain ancient constructs and build wonders to augment their empire. Would it be possible to find/obtain a unique "wonder faction population"?

It could be fought over with propaganda "wars" or re-colonized to different planets, but it would be solo and unable to grow/reproduce. Just and idea.



Propaganda:

With the addition of the propaganda system, awesome faction shenanigans and espionage opportunities.



If a player wanted to disseminate certain types of populations from their system/empire?

If one/two particular type of population is best for player X's strategy, they would want to get rid of less useful populations taking a population slot. Will there be a way to "dismiss" unwanted populations? (trying to keep this classy without invoking history)



I'm sure it could be done by taking the certain population as invasion troops/cannon fodder (like in ES 1), but will there be other ways?

It would be cool to see factions trying to spread their population as fast as possible to utilize espionage/assassinations/gradual take over (flip) of systems.



Will there be tech(s), trait(s), or laws that effect the size/strength of the propaganda effect?



Capture:

It remains the same after taking a system with military force you get to take the population. I guess there could be options what to do with them....(See Cat's post).



Will there be a raid/slaver type module that can steal population(s) from a system (not owned by yourself)?

It could be far up the tech tree as far as I care, but it would be nice to see that as a mid/end game strategy.



The Propaganda system reminds me of a potential faction in G2G that got out voted by the Harmony:

Looks great. Specially the new propaganda mechanics.



Most of questions I've got had been asked before, so only remains the silly one: I understand that you star having only population of the faction you've chose in your home world. The pop from other faction will start appearing as long as you find them through the game. Is that like this?

In the example you mention two empires with sophon pop. I suppose that if two empires starts with sophon pop is only because the players had chosen this faction. Or may be you can start pop from various factions in your world from turn 1? It wouldn't make any sense for me.



Just another thing about Cravers. I previous pot the option "dinner" was suggested. I'd like to see a Cravers affiniti/trait allowing you to "eat" another faction and converting their pop into Cravers (with some penalty if it needed for balance).

I hate to be a voice of dissent here, but I think the propaganda system could stand some improvement... I like the idea behind the mechanic a LOT, but it just doesn't make sense to me...

Why should the propaganda that I am publishing on MY planet result in settlers from OTHER planets to emigrate, regardless of whether the citizens on my planet are happy or not? Isn't the primary purpose of propaganda to change the worldview of the citizens I already have?



I think the existing propaganda mechanic should be re-fitted to employ not only empire ideologies, but also, and primarily, planet happiness in relation to its neighbors...

Allow me to propose a more complicated, but holistic set of systems



Propaganda

The player needs to send to the Construction Queue an Infinite Improvement called “Propaganda”. When Propaganda is in the first spot in the Construction Queue, it begins to change both the Psychological Traits and the Basic Political Ideologies of the planet's population after x amount of turns. The speed at which this is done is dependent on not only production, but also planet happiness.

-In Rebellion, propaganda is produced at 0.125x speed

-Unhappy, propaganda is produced 0.25x speed

-Content, 1x

-Happy, 4x

-Ecstatic, 8x

(Note, this scale is reversed for propaganda from spies)

When propaganda is being generated, after X amount of turns, 1 population (currently opposed to or, otherwise, not for whatever the propaganda is for) will change Psychological Traits and Political Ideologies for the next 2 or so votes. After which time, the population affected by the propaganda will revert back to it's inclined position.

If a planet continues producing the same propaganda before the time is up, however, an affected population's timer will be reset and an additional portion of the population will be converted. If a given population is converted 3 times in a row without their changing back to normal, the change will be permanent for that segment of the population.



Producing propaganda has the added bonus of raising the likelihood you will receive immigrants from other planets of a specific ideology by x% total per turn up to a max of ~5-20% total

(Immigration, a separate but connected system, explained in detail below)



Emigration and Immigration

After every turn, each inhabited planet will perform a check on the planets surrounding it (in a radius the same size as the current propaganda radius).

If one planet is happier than another, then there is a chance that a population may leave and join the happy planet.



The variable for this is calculated based on both the difference between the two happiness levels of the planets, and the ideologies they contain.

-In Rebellion -> Ecstatic = 80% total

-Unhappy -> Ecstatic = 40% total

-Content, -> Ecstatic = 20% total

-Happy, -> Ecstatic = 10% total

-Ecstatic, -> Ecstatic 0% total

(Apply the logic behind this chart to other pairings. Content -> Content = 0% and Content -> Happy = 10%)

These %'s are then divided up by the ideologies of the two planets. there is an additional 0.5x reduction for conflicting ideologies

For example:

-If an unhappy planet and an Ecstatic planet BOTH contain ONLY militarists, for some reason, there will be a 40% chance EVERY TURN that a population will leave the unhappy planet and move to the happy one.

-If the unhappy planet contained only militarists and the Ecstatic planet contained only pacifists, there would be only a 20% chance every turn for immigration

-If unhappy has both militarists and pacifists and Ecstatic has only Religious, there will be a 40% chance every turn for immigration (50% of the time it will be a militarist, 50% a pacifist)

-If unhappy has both militarists and pacifists and Ecstatic has a MAJORITY of militarist and a minority of pacifist, there will be a 40% chance for immigration (75% of the time it will be a militarist, 25% a pacifist)



When considering the immigration bonus of propoganda, if there are 2 ecstatic planets that have militarists, and 1 is making militarist propoganda, it will then have (up to) a 20% chance cause a militarist and ONLY a militarist to immigrate. If it were, say, between an unhappy and an ecstatic planet. There would still be that 40% chance, but there would also be a SEPERATE 20% chance to SPECIFICALLY recruit a militarist.







Ugh, I spent way to long planning that out and boy is that more complicated...all because i think population transfers should have a lot to do with happiness...



I think this is balanced as, given overpopulation penalties, it will be difficult to maintain an Ecstatic planet. Eventually, everything should average out to everyone being content. Happiness boosts, along with propaganda, serve as a sort of cultural warfare. Couple this with an espionage system that can affect both happiness and local ideologies and things get interesting...



I dunno, does any aspect of my suggestion seem like a good idea to anyone? Or are there a bunch of problems with everything I'm suggesting?