Eji1700 wrote:
I really think this will have to be carefully balanced. The "diplomatic advantage" can be nice vs an AI which will be programmed to give a damn, but very often the player vs player interaction at that level is too simple (i'll max it and lock people out of trading unless they absolutely need it and then I make a ton of money off it and harm their war chest. Win win.).



Endless legend having a diplomatic currency was a huge step in the right direction to allowing diplomatic actions to actually matter in a pvp scenario, so I hope it's still around for space and that such market manipulations help you generate it.

Falkner wrote:
That's exactly my fear.

Falkner wrote:
That's exactly my fear.



And now that the marketplace will be an actual physical location and not merely an abstraction some other things need to be considered:

- What happens when you go to war with the marketplace owner? He can market ban you? I'm not against this, just curious on how it would work.

- Would diplomatic contact with the owner's empire be necessary in order to trade on the marketplace? I'm picturing the scenario when Empire A is the owner of the market and Empire B never encountered Empire A (perhaps because it's being blockaded in its own corner of space by Empire C).

Epikuros wrote:
It's funny seeing Cravers dealing with the marketplace. Usually I played them as I want that - I conquer that. Everything is food apart from us... LoL

But I love this marketplace and bigger control of the transactions and economics.

Hi

I've had an idea after watching the gamescom video. One user commented on his dislike of the buy fonction (not in the market but in your production) and I have too say I agree a bit with him. It's strange, all this dust given to no one and an upgrade/unit appearing out of thin air.

So I have a drastic proposition. Why not remove this feature entirely and transfer these actions in the market. 

After all, the unit purchase already exist in the market. And for the upgrade purchase, you don't buy upgrade at the market, you could buy worforce (industry).

Which bring me to another idea. Why not put food and industry in the market ?

I see several solutions for this :

 

• in the production line there is a 'create stockpile of food/industry', after some turns it create a stockpile you can sell. Not my favorite idea.

• Or, the market has food/industry pool for each player: on each system the player can decide that a percentage of the food and/or industy produced is sent to the market pool and can be sold to other player. (for the sell: the buyer select the quantity she/he want and affect it to one of his/her system)

• And to the addition of the ponctual sale/purchase, a player should be able to sell a flux. What I mean is, if I have a system with a lot of food production, I can put in the market an exportation of food of +X food per turn against +X dust to an other player.

   

The interest is the pressure you can have with just economic production. Let's say player B import a lot of your food. Pehaps he/she will decide to skip on food research/uprade, after all he/she has already a steady flow because of you. But then, if he/she become too dependent of your food, you have a mean of pressure against him/her: you can threaten to stop exporting.

I have also two questions concerning the market:

Do you receive dust when your merchandise is put on display on the market or when someone actually buy it ?

When you buy something on the market do you see who sell it ?

It seem very important to me that the dust is received when the merchandise is actually bought and that you see the identity of the seller.

If I want 2 units of adamantian, perhaps I don't want to buy the 2 units sold by the empire engaged in a war with me …

More interesting, if I'm pacifist and a big buyer, carefully distributing my dust among the differents empires could help maintaining a balance without being explicitly allies.

Falkner wrote:
Is there any gameplay reason for which the one holding the marketplace won't keep the tax rate always maxed out?

BlackBird1696 wrote:

supertartiflette wrote:

Hi

I've had an idea after watching the gamescom video. One user commented on his dislike of the buy fonction (not in the market but in your production) and I have too say I agree a bit with him. It's strange, all this dust given to no one and an upgrade/unit appearing out of thin air.

People need to stop complaining about the buy function. Every strategy game has one and it has been a part of this series since the beginning.

Maybe not every strategy game has it, but a lot of 4X games do. And unlike most other 4X games, where you use cold or "credits," the Endless series at least has some actual justification for it:

Dust is a mass of extremely advanced nanites that can be used to achieve just about anything (advanced tech indistinguishable from magic, and all that). So most likely you aren't paying anybody, but the Dust itself is doing the work, assembling the structures on a molecular level.

Maybe not every strategy game has it, but a lot of 4X games do.

Yeah I should probably fix that. Thanks for pointing out the mistake.

It's still woud be a dust to production conversion but with the production coming from other empires. A form of offshoring i guess.

But i see your points for the buyout function and it's atcually very good reasons. I guess you really need a strict advantage at playing dust production without distributing your dust to others.

Anyway it was just a 'what if' idea.

Another interroagtion i had reading your answers: can we consider forbiding purchase of what we're selling by some other player. (I know this has'nt be adressed yet in the GDD). 

To conclude I think I just really wish to see the market being a strong place of interraction between players. The EL market was a bit 'exchange your dust against watever you want and that's all'.

supertartiflette wrote:

It's still woud be a dust to production conversion but with the production coming from other empires. A form of offshoring i guess.

But i see your points for the buyout function and it's atcually very good reasons. I guess you really need a strict advantage at playing dust production without distributing your dust to others.

Anyway it was just a 'what if' idea.

Another interroagtion i had reading your answers: can we consider forbiding purchase of what we're selling by some other player. (I know this has'nt be adressed yet in the GDD). 

To conclude I think I just really wish to see the market being a strong place of interraction between players. The EL market was a bit 'exchange your dust against watever you want and that's all'.

The big problem with a market supplied only by other players is that they could just as easily ignore the market and keep their materials in a stockpile for a later turn when they might actually need it. I've seen such a thing happen in 4x's before and it usually makes the market more barren than the surface of Mercury.

BlackBird1696 wrote:

supertartiflette wrote:

It's still woud be a dust to production conversion but with the production coming from other empires. A form of offshoring i guess.

But i see your points for the buyout function and it's atcually very good reasons. I guess you really need a strict advantage at playing dust production without distributing your dust to others.

Anyway it was just a 'what if' idea.

Another interroagtion i had reading your answers: can we consider forbiding purchase of what we're selling by some other player. (I know this has'nt be adressed yet in the GDD). 

To conclude I think I just really wish to see the market being a strong place of interraction between players. The EL market was a bit 'exchange your dust against watever you want and that's all'.

The big problem with a market supplied only by other players is that they could just as easily ignore the market and keep their materials in a stockpile for a later turn when they might actually need it. I've seen such a thing happen in 4x's before and it usually makes the market more barren than the surface of Mercury.

You can do it, but you REALLY need to understand market forces and how people handle games.  This is the same issue most diplomacy in 4x's have where between players its useless and vs the AI it's still really shallow.  They at least introduced a resource for Diplomacy to help make it a bit deeper (and viable in pvp), so i have some hope they understand enough about markets that they could do something like that right.

The trick is making sure the incentive is right, and it can't be just dust.  There should be many other advantages and disadvantages to using the market, and it having a physical location seems like a step in the right direction.

Hi,

We have taken into account the feedback on the buyout, and currently we are heading in the direction of making it more expansive, and not economically viable compared to a normal industry construction. It's still there as an option though, mainly to handle emergencies.

As for the marketplace, we are definitely heading in the direction of player filled, and we will be keeping a sharp eye for the "barren" effect. On ownership of resources, sadly each resource has a common stock, so you won't know who put what in there ; however we want to introduce an "ads" system where players would be able to post messages saying "I'd like to buy XX of YY res", or "I just put a large quantity of YY for sale".

What could help avoid the barren effect is how strategic resources have been made a little bit more central to the gameplay, encouraging players (including the AI) to trade them on the market. Luxuries also have a strong role to play with the star system upgrades and should definitely be sought after with any means necessary.

can we consider forbiding purchase of what we're selling by some other player. (I know this has'nt be adressed yet in the GDD)

For the moment this is not possible.

jhell wrote:

Hi,

We have taken into account the feedback on the buyout, and currently we are heading in the direction of making it more expansive, and not economically viable compared to a normal industry construction. It's still there as an option though, mainly to handle emergencies.

...

From what we have seen in the Gamescom video the Lumeris could only have bought around 8 ships even with the 50% buyout discount. Then after every 2 turns they could afford another ship. This felt about right to me. It could help in an emergency but not in a prolonged war, where you would loose ships and fleets. I guess the final balancing is still not done, regarding to your post about making it more expansive. I hope it will still be an option. Especially in late game where you can kickstart new colonies if you buyout key structures. Perhaps starships and buildings could have different buyout values, so it could be easier to buyout structures/buildings/improvements but not ships. Or you could also add different policies for buyout. A pacifist one which lets you buyout improvemtens cheaper and a military one which lets you buyout starships cheaper.