VieuxChat wrote:

I'm another VIPs.

And I remember the Tech forums of ES1 and EL. 

There were too many people that posted about bugs past the turn limit. The problem is that bugs will create more bugs and, as time passes, the flaws of bugs or unbalanced gameplay will show more and more.

So, giving feedback on gameplay without taking into account that the game was totally derailed due to inbalances (it's an Early Access after all) after the turn limit was useless and time consuming (veeeeeery time consuming) for people that tried to keep the Tech forum organized.

So, I thank the devs for such a limit. It eases their work.

If you are a VIP playing without such a limit of course the limit wouldn't matter to you. No reason why the game can't tally up the score, declare a winner then give a warning that if you continue past that point there may be imbalances and an increase in bugs.

I think it really comes down to the fact that if the game is in an unplayable state beyond such a short duration it really ought not be released for EA at all at this point. 100 turns really isn't much at all. Just a teaser really. Kind of disrespectful to the customer.

I too was disappointed by the 100 turn limit, i actually came to the forums specifically to find out if the 100 turn limit i heard about watching videos on youtube would also apply once it hit EA. 

But that being said, and trying not to sound too fanboy-ish here, Amplitude is pretty much one of 2 companies I trust implicitly with how they will handle EA and the release of their game. The mistrust of game devs, and even more of EA releases is totally founded because we all get burned constantly. But look at Amplitudes track record, they kind of earn a bit of trust here.

Is the cap going to work similar to the one Endless Legend had where you had the option of playing past it if you chose?  http://steamcommunity.com/app/289130/discussions/0/540739861161136607/#c540739861250366241

Early access is early access. Take what we get and smile. If it's not what you want/expect, wait for the game to come out. My philosophy only. YMMV.

Even if there would be a turn limit tomorrow who says it will remain during the whole early access phase, they could remove it during further development.

PANCZASU wrote:

Jaimoe wrote:

Very condescending of you but not very helpful. They're kind of springing this 100 turn limit on us at the last minute. VIP testers didn't have it. Frankly if all they can give us is 100 turns they're better off delaying the EA release for a while. When people were upset about the first delay it was because of a lack of communication, not because everyone insisted it be released before it was ready. Sounds like it's still not ready.

1. As VIPs we're expected to test the game even when it's in a very rough and barely playable state; so it makes sense to give us full access. That said, I'm curious how do you know that we used to have no limits.
2. With that said, I'm personally against the 100 turn limit and have always been - in my opinion a big flashing warning message screaming "The game isn't ready to play beyond turn 100 yet, continue at your own risk!" is a better solution.
3. And finally - yes, it is NOT ready. It's an early access game, no early access game has ever been "ready". It is playable but not of the standard you would expect from a gold release game. If you want that level of polish then you should simply not buy the game and instead wait for a full release

I know early access VIP's have at least a higher limit than 100 turns from watching Twitch streams and youtube videos from VIP testers.

As a VIP tester maybe you can answer this...if you do have a limit, does the game end and not allow you to continue at that limit or does it just calculate the score and declare a winner but allow you to play more turns past that point?

I'll probably play at a slower speed anyway.

Jaimoe wrote:
I know early access VIP's have at least a higher limit than 100 turns from watching Twitch streams and youtube videos from VIP testers.

As a VIP tester maybe you can answer this...if you do have a limit, does the game end and not allow you to continue at that limit or does it just calculate the score and declare a winner but allow you to play more turns past that point?

They must be playing on slower speeds then - people are only allowed to post footage from a certain build which has 100 turn limit (which is higher on slower speeds).

As for your question - IF the version that is released on early access works in the same way as the one you saw in the videos (and that's a big "if") then there will be no way to progress past 100 turns (at least not without using exploits).

Personally, like I stated before, I don't think that a hard limit is a good idea. Even if there's no late game content to show, I would still like to not be bound by artificial limits.

I'm another VIPs.

And I remember the Tech forums of ES1 and EL. 

There were too many people that posted about bugs past the turn limit. The problem is that bugs will create more bugs and, as time passes, the flaws of bugs or unbalanced gameplay will show more and more.

So, giving feedback on gameplay without taking into account that the game was totally derailed due to inbalances (it's an Early Access after all) after the turn limit was useless and time consuming (veeeeeery time consuming) for people that tried to keep the Tech forum organized.

So, I thank the devs for such a limit. It eases their work.

Jaimoe wrote:

Very condescending of you but not very helpful. They're kind of springing this 100 turn limit on us at the last minute. VIP testers didn't have it. Frankly if all they can give us is 100 turns they're better off delaying the EA release for a while. When people were upset about the first delay it was because of a lack of communication, not because everyone insisted it be released before it was ready. Sounds like it's still not ready.

1. As VIPs we're expected to test the game even when it's in a very rough and barely playable state; so it makes sense to give us full access. That said, I'm curious how do you know that we used to have no limits.
2. With that said, I'm personally against the 100 turn limit and have always been - in my opinion a big flashing warning message screaming "The game isn't ready to play beyond turn 100 yet, continue at your own risk!" is a better solution.
3. And finally - yes, it is NOT ready. It's an early access game, no early access game has ever been "ready". It is playable but not of the standard you would expect from a gold release game. If you want that level of polish then you should simply not buy the game and instead wait for a full release

Based on the gameplay I have seen so far a turn limit shouldn't matter if you play to win from the very start (unless you go for fast speed, which lowers the limit to 50 turns). The only thing we would need to do is change up what tech we grab each game.

according to the steam store page (under "what the developers have to say"):

What is the current state of the Early Access version?

“The Early Access currently contains the core of the gameplay and the game’s vision. It is in Alpha state, meaning it is playable, but misses a lot of content, game balance is rough, and only English language is available. Right now the Alpha will focus on the first 125 turns of the game, which will help us focus on one bit at a time, of that huge game. The game is not bug free, we have a testing team helping us to track down issues, but as the game is evolving every day we cannot guarantee the same level of stability that you will have in the final game. So please if you encounter any issues, let us know in our forums. Yet, you should already have a lot of fun playing the game, we already have, and the latest feedbacks we had convinced us that we were ready to open the game for everyone.”

so is there a 125 turn limit?

VieuxChat wrote:

The problem is that bugs will create more bugs 

MVP Quote right there. You hit the nail on the head :-)

Paying to test games is foolish.

Jaimoe wrote:

VieuxChat wrote:

I'm another VIPs.

And I remember the Tech forums of ES1 and EL. 

There were too many people that posted about bugs past the turn limit. The problem is that bugs will create more bugs and, as time passes, the flaws of bugs or unbalanced gameplay will show more and more.

So, giving feedback on gameplay without taking into account that the game was totally derailed due to inbalances (it's an Early Access after all) after the turn limit was useless and time consuming (veeeeeery time consuming) for people that tried to keep the Tech forum organized.

So, I thank the devs for such a limit. It eases their work.

If you are a VIP playing without such a limit of course the limit wouldn't matter to you. No reason why the game can't tally up the score, declare a winner then give a warning that if you continue past that point there may be imbalances and an increase in bugs.

I think it really comes down to the fact that if the game is in an unplayable state beyond such a short duration it really ought not be released for EA at all at this point. 100 turns really isn't much at all. Just a teaser really. Kind of disrespectful to the customer.

Where did you get the thought I played without that limit ? I never said that. All VIPs played with that limit, and when there wasn't on the very very early builds we couldn't play for too long because it was very buggy.

I don't care about that limit. 100 turns is enough to get the "vision" of what will the game be. You already get a lot of fun with those 100 turns.

After 100 turns the game is far away from the devs "vision", both in stability and gameplay, and discussing the game after that point is useless and would make them lose time.

Moreover you can chose, at start, the pace of the game (very slow for instance will give you more turns because everything takes more turns to build/research).

Shywim wrote:

Jaimoe wrote:

I think it really comes down to the fact that if the game is in an unplayable state beyond such a short duration it really ought not be released for EA at all at this point. 100 turns really isn't much at all. Just a teaser really. Kind of disrespectful to the customer.

I don't know. You're warned everywhere on the store page. The game is far its final state, you buy it sooner with a sale to be able to get some taste of the game (which you get even with "only" 100 turns) and developers do that so they can have more feedback from more people. I don't see what is disrespectful when it's written everywhere that you don't get the full game and nobody is putting a knife under your throat to buy the game now.

Well it looks like the devs have pushed the limit up to 125 turns and promised to remove it sometime next week. A nice compromise even if 125 still seems a bit restrictive. I've reached the limits of my outrage-o-meter as far as a video game is concerned. :)

The clarification is appreciated Steph.

I watched it too, and they said that in the beginning of Early Access that it will only be 100 turns, and it will be increased when that portion of the game is polished from player feedback. I'm pretty sure they did something similar in the EA for Endless Legend as well.

Another take away is that it seems the the propaganda/immigration mechanics are being reworked and won't be in the EA initially. Now it seems it's being used more as a mid to late game way of directly competing with other factions peacefully instead of being forced to declare war.  I'm really excited by this prospect because I love the idea of having more options to engage other factions without simply being at war with them. I really hope this leads to the possibility of absorbing other factions' systems in a peaceful manner if considerable resources are put forth into that effort.

I'm afraid of "burning" myself out with the EA, like I did with endless legends, thus losing interest to the game before the interesting stuff is added.

uriak wrote:
Aw the migration mechanic was one thing I was really looking forward to :(

I'm afraid of "burning" myself out with the EA, like I did with endless legends, thus losing interest to the game before the interesting stuff is added.

Me too, but I'm glad they're reworking it instead of going "meh, good enough" and getting a lack-luster mechanic... that being said I was really hoping to mess around with it from the get go.

only 100 turns that sucks :( 

OH! One thing of importance I forgot to mention from the video is that they confirmed that 2 more of the Major factions yet to be revealed will in fact be returning factions from Endless Space 1, so there's that

Ridiculi wrote:

I watched it too, and they said that in the beginning of Early Access that it will only be 100 turns, and it will be increased when that portion of the game is polished from player feedback. I'm pretty sure they did something similar in the EA for Endless Legend as well.

Another take away is that it seems the the propaganda/immigration mechanics are being reworked and won't be in the EA initially. Now it seems it's being used more as a mid to late game way of directly competing with other factions peacefully instead of being forced to declare war.  I'm really excited by this prospect because I love the idea of having more options to engage other factions without simply being at war with them. I really hope this leads to the possibility of absorbing other factions' systems in a peaceful manner if considerable resources are put forth into that effort.

That's really really unfortuante as the propaganda/immigration mechanics seem like some of the best things beign designed for the system.

The thing is I don't recall any of their other games they did in Early Access having a 100 turn limit though. Even Endless Legend's was like 200 turns for the 'score victory'

They're already capping the # of available major factions so you cant 'play the entire game' so to speak.

I would wager that the turn limit isn't so much a 'hard' limit as 'this is when we stop keeping score' kind fo thing. Also depending on the # of technologies and how deep they make available in the tech tree that may also change the # of turns that can be played.

It's possible there isn't enough tech/events/IA reactions at this moment to make the game interesting past the 100 turns though. I remember not doing much but teching against crushed AI in EL early access.

Hey everyone,

We actually had that temporary 100 turn limit (or even less) for our previous games that went through Early Access too. The final limit will be set to 300 turns, with of course the possibility to continue your game, after you've achieved a score victory. And, I haven't mentioned game speeds that you can modulate to impact the duration of your game. 

We've set that score/turn limit to provide a more enjoyable and polished experience, while we are still working on improving the mid/late-game, and adding features that are still missing during this Early Access. Consequently, we intend to constantly increase the duration of a game as we update Endless Space 2. 

In the German livestream from today, at around after 17:40 it is stated that that version only goes for the first 100 turns. Many people think this applies for the Early Access version too, me personally I don't think so, but it would be good to have a confirmation, though in ES1 almost all of the good important stuff happaned pre turn 100 anyway.

So will the Early Access release coming to Steam on the 6th of October be limited to the first 100 turns?

On a similar note, will the endgame tech tiers be added for the early access release or during early access development?

Mokinokaro wrote:

The clarification is appreciated Steph.

This^

Steph'nie wrote:

Hey everyone,

We actually had that temporary 100 turn limit (or even less) for our previous games that went through Early Access too. The final limit will be set to 300 turns, with of course the possibility to continue your game, after you've achieved a score victory. And, I haven't mentioned game speeds that you can modulate to impact the duration of your game. 

We've set that score/turn limit to provide a more enjoyable and polished experience, while we are still working on improving the mid/late-game, and adding features that are still missing during this Early Access. Consequently, we intend to constantly increase the duration of a game as we update Endless Space 2. 

I know this is a long shot but do you have any estimaitons on how long it will be before you move past 100 turn limit? Or is it simply too early to say?

uriak wrote:

It's possible there isn't enough tech/events/IA reactions at this moment to make the game interesting past the 100 turns though. I remember not doing much but teching against crushed AI in EL early access.

This. I suspect the number of events is quite low.

I'm fine with the 100 turn limit, but how often will the EA be updated?

Steph'nie wrote:

Hey everyone,

We actually had that temporary 100 turn limit (or even less) for our previous games that went through Early Access too. The final limit will be set to 300 turns, with of course the possibility to continue your game, after you've achieved a score victory. And, I haven't mentioned game speeds that you can modulate to impact the duration of your game. 

We've set that score/turn limit to provide a more enjoyable and polished experience, while we are still working on improving the mid/late-game, and adding features that are still missing during this Early Access. Consequently, we intend to constantly increase the duration of a game as we update Endless Space 2. 

Is this 100 turn limit just how long the game will keep score or will the game just stop playing at 100 turns? If the game just stops playing after 100 turns, I don't see how it will help my playing experience, because I won't waste money on an EA game that only goes 100 turns. By the time you get to an acceptable limit, other games will be coming out, so...

Jaimoe wrote:

Is this 100 turn limit just how long the game will keep score or will the game just stop playing at 100 turns? If the game just stops playing after 100 turns, I don't see how it will help my playing experience, because I won't waste money on an EA game that only goes 100 turns. By the time you get to an acceptable limit, other games will be coming out, so...

That just shows that EA isn't for you, because content past turn ~100 simply isn't ready to be tested/played for now. Just wait for full release.

Sublustris wrote:

Jaimoe wrote:

Is this 100 turn limit just how long the game will keep score or will the game just stop playing at 100 turns? If the game just stops playing after 100 turns, I don't see how it will help my playing experience, because I won't waste money on an EA game that only goes 100 turns. By the time you get to an acceptable limit, other games will be coming out, so...

That just shows that EA isn't for you, because content past turn ~100 simply isn't ready to be tested/played for now. Just wait for full release.

Very condescending of you but not very helpful. They're kind of springing this 100 turn limit on us at the last minute. VIP testers didn't have it. Frankly if all they can give us is 100 turns they're better off delaying the EA release for a while. When people were upset about the first delay it was because of a lack of communication, not because everyone insisted it be released before it was ready. Sounds like it's still not ready.