vahouth wrote:

EDIT: BTW Amoeba and probably the Pilgrims are already in the XML files as well. See here:

Steam/SteamApps/Common/Endless Space 2/Public/Plugins/GalaxyGenerator/GalaxySettings.XML

Tried searching in there, Pilgrims didn't pop up at all, though the Amoeba did pop up as an affinity.

Point being, until I get something from the devs, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, I can't possibly imagine them brushing aside two beloved major races to bring back a joke race.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I wish I could believe that. I don't want any false hope. The Amoeba and Automatons were my absolute favourite factions in ES1.

I really hope we can use Minor Faction assets when we get access to the Custom Faction creator tool.

Yeah - I'm worried too, but it's still very early days and Amplitude are pretty good at listening to fan feedback (at least from what I've seen). There's not much we can do at the moment as we know there's only going to be eight factions in the start line-up (and at this point in the design process the ones chosen are very likely set in stone), so it's inevitable that some people won't be getting their favourite factions from the get go. Once the game is released though it may be worth trying to drum up support to let the devs know that for some of us, the game just won't be the same without the return of some more of the old factions (I'm pretty sure they're aware of that already though).

Also +1 for having Minor Faction assets available for custom factions. That would be amazing.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

Yeah, I guess the devs just put those files referencing the UE, Horatio and a new faction because they didn't have anything better to do with their time.

I don't know if you're joking or not, because there's TONS of stuff in the XMLs that's there for giggles (See: Social Justice Warriors). That said, the XMLs do not list Horatio as a major faction anywhere I'm aware of.

GrendelHime wrote:

Romeo wrote: There's absolutely zero reason they couldn't be moved over. In fact, it'd be a hell of a lot easier with them starting as a minor faction, as some of their artwork and programming is already done. In that instance, once they programmed the rest of their stuff, they'd simply remove them from the minor list. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they're doomed to remain a minor race forever.

Yeah - I have to agree with this. It wouldn't be any more work upgrading one of the Minor Factions than it would be to add in a totally new one. I think it would be technically possible for all of the ES1 races to return. It's just a case of whether the dev team intend/want to do so.

At this point in time the thing that would most reassure me would be if the Vaulters were revealed as a minor faction, as I think it's inevitable that they will be a Major faction at some point, what with them being the thread that ties the Endless universe games together. If that happened I think it would be safe to say that Amplitude is open to upgrading factions and will probably doo so with some of the others.

Also - just in case anyone's interested yet another Minor Faction has just been added to the Wiki (a totally new one this time): http://wiki.endless-space.com/minor-factions/z-vali

Yeah, big time easier.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I wish I could believe that. I don't want any false hope. The Amoeba and Automatons were my absolute favourite factions in ES1.

I really hope we can use Minor Faction assets when we get access to the Custom Faction creator tool.

While I don't think we'll be able to use Minor Factions in the custom faction tab (Minor Factions lack animated backgrounds, and most of the classes of ships), at least it's a good chunk of work done to get them introduced as a full faction.

vahouth wrote:

Romeo wrote:

UndeadPuppy wrote:

Yeah, I guess the devs just put those files referencing the UE, Horatio and a new faction because they didn't have anything better to do with their time.

I don't know if you're joking or not, because there's TONS of stuff in the XMLs that's there for giggles (See: Social Justice Warriors). That said, the XMLs do not list Horatio as a major faction anywhere I'm aware of.

 

SOURCE:
Steam/SteamApps/Common/Endless Space 2/Public/Simulation/Battles/

In this folder every major faction has it's own XML file:

SimulationDescriptors[ShipCravers].XML

SimulationDescriptors[ShipHoratio].XML

SimulationDescriptors[ShipSophons].XML

SimulationDescriptors[ShipTerrans].XML       (UE)

SimulationDescriptors[ShipTimelords].XML

SimulationDescriptors[ShipVampirilis].XML  (Vodyani)

SimulationDescriptors[ShipVenetians].XML  (Lumeris)

Minor Factions are ALL represented in the SimulationDescriptors[ShipMinorFactions].XML

Isn't this proof enough that Horatio are listed as a major faction? 

I will admit, they do have an empty XML there, but absolutely nothing else. They aren't in the localization, they aren't in any other XML I've found. Hell, they aren't even in anything else in the Battle folder itself. And the Minor Faction ship list only has the Minor factions currently in the game. The Amoeba and Pilgrims aren't even on it yet. You can believe it to be true, and it very well may be, but I'm certainly not calling this definitive, especially without something from the devs. Personally, I would hope they wouldn't piss off the community by axing Amoeba and Hissho, but keeping Horatio.

Romeo wrote:

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I'm really not happy with how some of the ES1 factions were treated by Amplitude.

What annoys me the most is that as a Minor Faction, the Amoeba can't be added on as a DLC/expansion faction in the future. They are condemned to irrelevancy until ES3.

Which lorewise doesn't make sense, since they are one of the oldest space fairing races in the galaxy and have an empire (which again, makes no sense that they're a Minor Faction, as they never own more than one System.)

I hope that at least they stick to lore and give them a Swamp homeworld or an Ocean one if they want to go for ES1 nostalgia.

There's absolutely zero reason they couldn't be moved over. In fact, it'd be a hell of a lot easier with them starting as a minor faction, as some of their artwork and programming is already done. In that instance, once they programmed the rest of their stuff, they'd simply remove them from the minor list. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they're doomed to remain a minor race forever.

ProTech wrote:

Where was it confirmed that Horatio is a playable race? I also did not hear about these Time Lords before? Can someone enlighten me where the information comes from?

It's one of those situations where someone pulled it from their backside, and it's been quoted enough times that people have accepted it as fact. As of yet, there's no confirmation from either the devs, nor within the XMLs.

Yeah, I guess the devs just put those files referencing the UE, Horatio and a new faction because they didn't have anything better to do with their time.

Romeo wrote:

vahouth wrote:

EDIT: BTW Amoeba and probably the Pilgrims are already in the XML files as well. See here:

Steam/SteamApps/Common/Endless Space 2/Public/Plugins/GalaxyGenerator/GalaxySettings.XML

Tried searching in there, Pilgrims didn't pop up at all, though the Amoeba did pop up as an affinity.

Point being, until I get something from the devs, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, I can't possibly imagine them brushing aside two beloved major races to bring back a joke race.

That's what I thought a few weeks ago... but the evidence was too strong.

Living in denial won't change anything.

Well, the question of what the future holds for ES1 Majors that are now ES2 Minors was addressed in tonight's Twitch livestream and honestly I'm pretty worried by what was said. It sounds as though the dev team are currently content that simply leaving them as Minors will be sufficient as they can still be interacted with and are still part of the Endless Space universe - they just aren't a major player anymore. At best they can be integrated into your empire and carried along for the ride.

While I am indeed relieved that they will be returning in some form, it's really not at all the same as being able to lead them to victory under their own power. Honestly - for me hearing this has been a bit of a hype killer. Although I do like a lot of what I'm seeing in ES2 so far, I know that I will not be able to become as invested in the game as I was in ES1 as a lot of the factions I care about will now simply be bit players in the game. The lore and setting are the part of Endless Space that made it stand out from other, similar games (at least in my opinion) and in the first game most of that came from the information on the races themselves, so by downgrading some of these races in the sequel it feels as though large parts of the setting have been cut away. Even though the new factions are well designed and are great additions to the universe, they will not fill that gap.

Seeing as it (currently) seems that only 4 or so of the 12 ES1 races will return as playable factions, and by Amplitude's admission there's a pretty even split in their popularity, I think there's going to be a lot of ES1 players who are left disappointed. In addition, judging by posts on these forums at the moment it seems that the people who are least content with Endless Space 2's current direction are those who loved Endless Space 1 but who either didn't enjoy or weren't really interested in Endless Legend, as there is a perception that the things they loved about ES1 are being pushed out of the spotlight in favour of new or EL features. Bringing back some of the old factions may help to alleviate this as it will help make the game feel more 'familiar' to old players.

I know that my opinions may not reflect the majority of the Endless Space fanbase, or the people on this forum. I can't say I'm speaking for everybody. However I'm sure there must be others who will be left unsatisfied with this stance on returning Minor Factions. In the end I do trust Amplitude's judgement, even if I disagree with some of their choices, and I hope that this game will be a massive success for them. They deserve no less than that. I can only raise my concerns and hope that there will be enough support that they will maybe reconsider this particular choice.

GrendelHime wrote:

Well, the question of what the future holds for ES1 Majors that are now ES2 Minors was addressed in tonight's Twitch livestream and honestly I'm pretty worried by what was said. It sounds as though the dev team are currently content that simply leaving them as Minors will be sufficient as they can still be interacted with and are still part of the Endless Space universe - they just aren't a major player anymore. At best they can be integrated into your empire and carried along for the ride.

While I am indeed relieved that they will be returning in some form, it's really not at all the same as being able to lead them to victory under their own power. Honestly - for me hearing this has been a bit of a hype killer. Although I do like a lot of what I'm seeing in ES2 so far, I know that I will not be able to become as invested in the game as I was in ES1 as a lot of the factions I care about will now simply be bit players in the game. The lore and setting are the part of Endless Space that made it stand out from other, similar games (at least in my opinion) and in the first game most of that came from the information on the races themselves, so by downgrading some of these races in the sequel it feels as though large parts of the setting have been cut away. Even though the new factions are well designed and are great additions to the universe, they will not fill that gap.

Seeing as it (currently) seems that only 4 or so of the 12 ES1 races will return as playable factions, and by Amplitude's admission there's a pretty even split in their popularity, I think there's going to be a lot of ES1 players who are left disappointed. In addition, judging by posts on these forums at the moment it seems that the people who are least content with Endless Space 2's current direction are those who loved Endless Space 1 but who either didn't enjoy or weren't really interested in Endless Legend, as there is a perception that the things they loved about ES1 are being pushed out of the spotlight in favour of new or EL features. Bringing back some of the old factions may help to alleviate this as it will help make the game feel more 'familiar' to old players.

I know that my opinions may not reflect the majority of the Endless Space fanbase, or the people on this forum. I can't say I'm speaking for everybody. However I'm sure there must be others who will be left unsatisfied with this stance on returning Minor Factions. In the end I do trust Amplitude's judgement, even if I disagree with some of their choices, and I hope that this game will be a massive success for them. They deserve no less than that. I can only raise my concerns and hope that there will be enough support that they will maybe reconsider this particular choice.

You're not in the minority, I too am disappointed that a lot of ES1 factions have been turned into Minors... actually they all have with 4 exceptions.

The Automatons, Amoeba, Vaulters, Harmony, Pilgrims, Sowers and Hissho are all going to be Minor Factions in ES2.

Some of them don't make sense from a lore perspective, seeing how the Harmony or the Amoeba are pretty old and powerful races. How the hell do the Horatio, who are nothing more than a handful of wacko clones, deserve to be a Major Faction is beyond me.

Amplitude played their cards poorly with ES2. They were so quick to shed the legacy of the first game and replace it with Space Endless Legend, like it was some sort of bad game they had to white wash.

Literally all of the Major Factions in the game are humanoid. Faction diversity is very lacking this time around compared to the first game.

They also rushed to make all the ES1 factions that aren't playable, into Minor Factions instead of just adding them on as DLCs or Expansion factions. And while I'm sure we'll get some eventually, they will be new races, and just like the Vodyani and Lumeris, won't be able to satisfy the nostalgia of the series veteran players.

Again, I really really REALLY hope that the Custom Faction feature will have access to ALL the game's art/model assets for heroes/pops/troops/ships so that we can at least partially recreate the ES1 factions ourselves. It's the only way ES1 fans can get some for of closure.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

Again, I really really REALLY hope that the Custom Faction feature will have access to ALL the game's art/model assets for heroes/pops/troops/ships so that we can at least partially recreate the ES1 factions ourselves. It's the only way ES1 fans can get some for of closure.

Maybe you should post that in the IDEAS section of the forum. ;)

vahouth wrote:

UndeadPuppy wrote:

Again, I really really REALLY hope that the Custom Faction feature will have access to ALL the game's art/model assets for heroes/pops/troops/ships so that we can at least partially recreate the ES1 factions ourselves. It's the only way ES1 fans can get some for of closure.

Maybe you should post that in the IDEAS section of the forum. ;)

Maybe I would if I thought there was a chance in hell the devs would consider it.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

They also rushed to make all the ES1 factions that aren't playable, into Minor Factions instead of just adding them on as DLCs or Expansion factions. And while I'm sure we'll get some eventually, they will be new races, and just like the Vodyani and Lumeris, won't be able to satisfy the nostalgia of the series veteran players.

As was pointed out in other threads, their status as a minor does not in any way preclude them from becoming a major later on in DLCs or Expansions. In fact, with some of the "grunt work" already done (Populations, multiple art assets, affinities), it would be easier for them to be added later from a minor race than to start from scratch. You're getting yourself worked up over nothing.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

Maybe I would if I thought there was a chance in hell the devs would consider it.

If you're not going to bother trying, you don't get to act indignant. I don't like certain things about the game, so I've knuckled down and voted. Do the same, or accept whatever you get.

GrendelHime wrote:

... In addition, judging by posts on these forums at the moment it seems that the people who are least content with Endless Space 2's current direction are those who loved Endless Space 1 but who either didn't enjoy or weren't really interested in Endless Legend, as there is a perception that the things they loved about ES1 are being pushed out of the spotlight in favour of new or EL features. Bringing back some of the old factions may help to alleviate this as it will help make the game feel more 'familiar' to old players.

...

Yeah, a notion that some start to call Endless Legend in Space. But wasn't Endless Space 1 their first game amplitude made? If i look back at it today, it was pretty basic, at least in comparision to Endless Legends which came after. They developed further, got new ideas, evolved. Because of this Endless Legends was much more in depth with many more features than Endless Space and so im not surprised they want to take these new ideas and features further while rehashing their old game. It's a notion that i personally welcome. Endless Space 2 is not Endless Legends in Space, it's Endless Space 1 with more depth and features than before, which are taken from Endless Legends.

Sinikko wrote:

GrendelHime wrote:

... In addition, judging by posts on these forums at the moment it seems that the people who are least content with Endless Space 2's current direction are those who loved Endless Space 1 but who either didn't enjoy or weren't really interested in Endless Legend, as there is a perception that the things they loved about ES1 are being pushed out of the spotlight in favour of new or EL features. Bringing back some of the old factions may help to alleviate this as it will help make the game feel more 'familiar' to old players.

...

Yeah, a notion that some start to call Endless Legend in Space. But wasn't Endless Space 1 their first game amplitude made? If i look back at it today, it was pretty basic, at least in comparision to Endless Legends which came after. They developed further, got new ideas, evolved. Because of this Endless Legends was much more in depth with many more features than Endless Space and so im not surprised they want to take these new ideas and features further while rehashing their old game. It's a notion that i personally welcome. Endless Space 2 is not Endless Legends in Space, it's Endless Space 1 with more depth and features than before, which are taken from Endless Legends.

Endless Space wasn't flashy by any stretch, but it was in no way shallow. Saying Endless Space 2 is a deeper game is hilariously wrong. Every player here has been posting the exact same tactic. And Endless Legend wasn't deeper either. Different? Certainly. Not deeper though.

You'll notice people here haven't been upset that they're adding stuff in to Endless Space 2. More stuff is good. The frustration is coming from the completely unnecessary changing of things that already worked amazing last time around. If someone brought me their car to make it better, and all I did was change some things so that it was no better than before, just different, they'd be choked. Same idea here.

vahouth wrote:

Horatio have a great potential for unique gameplay IMHO.

And the Amoeba didn't?

What's so unique about them besides cloning? We don't even know what their gameplay is like yet.

What ? That official ? Horatio as a Major faction ?

Ehh....nope , please, just nope, Maybe in an extenstion but really, I don't think that a great idea

Anyway, I'm sad too about the Amoeba, I really feel them as a big faction, they cool, they non-human and they can put the "pacific" faction in the game 

But weel, they not, I really hope in an extension, we can put them as a Major :/

Bad move amplitude.

PS: Did I say I reaaaaally don't like the horatio ? 

The Horatio are best faction. All will be Horatio.

I'd pick horatio over ameoba for a remake (and they would both need a remake as the ES1 versions are very very boring).

Horatio's cloning mechanic has interesting implications in the much more pop focused ES2, while ameba being trading, omniscient, pacifists both shares space with lumeris, and presents various problems (omniscient being a rather boring and strong ability).

I'm fine seeing them as a minor race (although I would pick a brand new race over horatio in a heartbeat).

So long as SOMEONE gives the modders the ability to "see the whole universe on startup" making the Amoeba a major faction shouldn't be too hard.

I'm really not happy with how some of the ES1 factions were treated by Amplitude.

What annoys me the most is that as a Minor Faction, the Amoeba can't be added on as a DLC/expansion faction in the future. They are condemned to irrelevancy until ES3.

Which lorewise doesn't make sense, since they are one of the oldest space fairing races in the galaxy and have an empire (which again, makes no sense that they're a Minor Faction, as they never own more than one System.)

I hope that at least they stick to lore and give them a Swamp homeworld or an Ocean one if they want to go for ES1 nostalgia.

Horatio have a great potential for unique gameplay IMHO.

Considering how they made exploration a more important part of gameplay, I don't think having a major faction that can immediately see all of the systems when the game starts would fit with that goal. I'm curious to see what bonus they give once they're assimilated though...

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I'm really not happy with how some of the ES1 factions were treated by Amplitude.

What annoys me the most is that as a Minor Faction, the Amoeba can't be added on as a DLC/expansion faction in the future. They are condemned to irrelevancy until ES3.

Which lorewise doesn't make sense, since they are one of the oldest space fairing races in the galaxy and have an empire (which again, makes no sense that they're a Minor Faction, as they never own more than one System.)

I hope that at least they stick to lore and give them a Swamp homeworld or an Ocean one if they want to go for ES1 nostalgia.

How so?

Lots of games substantially rewrite elements for an expansion.  What makes you think it's impossible for them to upgrade one or more minor faction to a full faction and then replace the old minor faction with some new group?

The Amoeba are in the game, and from where I'm sitting, no doors are shut, except that one of the next four will not be Amoeba.

ProTech wrote:

Where was it confirmed that Horatio is a playable race? I also did not hear about these Time Lords before? Can someone enlighten me where the information comes from?

Here some info https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/forum/65-general/thread/21949-some-pics-of-the-remaining-factions, for example.

UndeadPuppy wrote:

I'm really not happy with how some of the ES1 factions were treated by Amplitude.

What annoys me the most is that as a Minor Faction, the Amoeba can't be added on as a DLC/expansion faction in the future. They are condemned to irrelevancy until ES3.

Which lorewise doesn't make sense, since they are one of the oldest space fairing races in the galaxy and have an empire (which again, makes no sense that they're a Minor Faction, as they never own more than one System.)

I hope that at least they stick to lore and give them a Swamp homeworld or an Ocean one if they want to go for ES1 nostalgia.

There's absolutely zero reason they couldn't be moved over. In fact, it'd be a hell of a lot easier with them starting as a minor faction, as some of their artwork and programming is already done. In that instance, once they programmed the rest of their stuff, they'd simply remove them from the minor list. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they're doomed to remain a minor race forever.

ProTech wrote:

Where was it confirmed that Horatio is a playable race? I also did not hear about these Time Lords before? Can someone enlighten me where the information comes from?

It's one of those situations where someone pulled it from their backside, and it's been quoted enough times that people have accepted it as fact. As of yet, there's no confirmation from either the devs, nor within the XMLs.