Romeo wrote:

Eji1700 wrote:

Asuzu wrote:

I disagree simply because the planet colonizing techs were and will be a "must-have", which is tunneling your research plans always, and makes you pick same teching options over and over again.

And I really think the colonizing techs were taking ways too much out of 10 picks you had per era.

I don't really see this for two reasons:

1. While maybe eventually "must haves" I never felt I wanted all 4 techs before I left era 1, in fact often doing so felt like a total waste of tech.  I only grabbed the planet tech for planets that I found, and if I absolutely had to have some system and didn't have the tech yet it was easy enough to camp it with a fleet (which was a must have).  I very often went to era 2 without all planet techs researched and did fine.  I was much more concerned about getting my first hull tech before I found angry AI next door who either already had it, or god forbid, were the cravers.

2. I don't think "10 and done" is good design for era's.  I routinely find myself going back for one or two techs in the mid game, especially during era 2/3.  I'll almost always 100% skip the "dust buyout" tech because the ability to buy things with dust is near worthless right now in the early game (given how expensive everything is) and the system unique isn't that good for how difficult it is to build (and with early game build time almost always mandatory going towards colony ships and fleets depending on race it's rare that you have time for it).  That said come the mid game its essential for almost every race and totally worth going back for.  Ditto on colony techs once you start expanding your systems because you're hitting the pop cap on planets.

Personally whatever the solution I do hope that i'm not just looking at each era only and that some techs remain worth doubling back for because otherwise why even pretend to have era's?  By making colony tech only 2 techs there's no point not to grab them at every single era, and again even if you get them in different orders it doesn't change your gameplay at all, while even if you must go all 4 techs in the old system, the order you get tehm in, and the order you thus got the passive in, does affect the early game (two science buildings, and 4 different passives if I recall right, which can have a heavy effect on where you go and what you do).

1. Bump the difficulty up. If you're not grabbing the best planets, you will lose. Not a question of if, just when.
2. In general, it's worth picking up those techs ahead of time, rather than having to go back. Every tech you take pushes the cost of successive techs up. So if you're taking more Era I techs, Era II and III just got even slower to research.

Again, there's already not a reason to ignore them. Most of them are coupled with decent unlocks anyways, and the colonization techs affect quest options, conquest options, influence options... You really, really should be grabbing them by default.

I really haven't found 1 true at all.  If anything i'd rather have 3 meh systems than 1 great one simply because I can outproduce my opponent, I certianly haven't found 2 true, ESPECIALLY in era 1 where getting quick ship research is vital, and if neighboring cravers, will usually require following up with weapon tech.

Eji1700 wrote:

Asuzu wrote:

I disagree simply because the planet colonizing techs were and will be a "must-have", which is tunneling your research plans always, and makes you pick same teching options over and over again.

And I really think the colonizing techs were taking ways too much out of 10 picks you had per era.

I don't really see this for two reasons:

1. While maybe eventually "must haves" I never felt I wanted all 4 techs before I left era 1, in fact often doing so felt like a total waste of tech.  I only grabbed the planet tech for planets that I found, and if I absolutely had to have some system and didn't have the tech yet it was easy enough to camp it with a fleet (which was a must have).  I very often went to era 2 without all planet techs researched and did fine.  I was much more concerned about getting my first hull tech before I found angry AI next door who either already had it, or god forbid, were the cravers.

2. I don't think "10 and done" is good design for era's.  I routinely find myself going back for one or two techs in the mid game, especially during era 2/3.  I'll almost always 100% skip the "dust buyout" tech because the ability to buy things with dust is near worthless right now in the early game (given how expensive everything is) and the system unique isn't that good for how difficult it is to build (and with early game build time almost always mandatory going towards colony ships and fleets depending on race it's rare that you have time for it).  That said come the mid game its essential for almost every race and totally worth going back for.  Ditto on colony techs once you start expanding your systems because you're hitting the pop cap on planets.

Personally whatever the solution I do hope that i'm not just looking at each era only and that some techs remain worth doubling back for because otherwise why even pretend to have era's?  By making colony tech only 2 techs there's no point not to grab them at every single era, and again even if you get them in different orders it doesn't change your gameplay at all, while even if you must go all 4 techs in the old system, the order you get tehm in, and the order you thus got the passive in, does affect the early game (two science buildings, and 4 different passives if I recall right, which can have a heavy effect on where you go and what you do).

1. Bump the difficulty up. If you're not grabbing the best planets, you will lose. Not a question of if, just when.
2. In general, it's worth picking up those techs ahead of time, rather than having to go back. Every tech you take pushes the cost of successive techs up. So if you're taking more Era I techs, Era II and III just got even slower to research.

Again, there's already not a reason to ignore them. Most of them are coupled with decent unlocks anyways, and the colonization techs affect quest options, conquest options, influence options... You really, really should be grabbing them by default.

Asuzu wrote:

I disagree simply because the planet colonizing techs were and will be a "must-have", which is tunneling your research plans always, and makes you pick same teching options over and over again.

And I really think the colonizing techs were taking ways too much out of 10 picks you had per era.

I don't really see this for two reasons:

1. While maybe eventually "must haves" I never felt I wanted all 4 techs before I left era 1, in fact often doing so felt like a total waste of tech.  I only grabbed the planet tech for planets that I found, and if I absolutely had to have some system and didn't have the tech yet it was easy enough to camp it with a fleet (which was a must have).  I very often went to era 2 without all planet techs researched and did fine.  I was much more concerned about getting my first hull tech before I found angry AI next door who either already had it, or god forbid, were the cravers.

2. I don't think "10 and done" is good design for era's.  I routinely find myself going back for one or two techs in the mid game, especially during era 2/3.  I'll almost always 100% skip the "dust buyout" tech because the ability to buy things with dust is near worthless right now in the early game (given how expensive everything is) and the system unique isn't that good for how difficult it is to build (and with early game build time almost always mandatory going towards colony ships and fleets depending on race it's rare that you have time for it).  That said come the mid game its essential for almost every race and totally worth going back for.  Ditto on colony techs once you start expanding your systems because you're hitting the pop cap on planets.

Personally whatever the solution I do hope that i'm not just looking at each era only and that some techs remain worth doubling back for because otherwise why even pretend to have era's?  By making colony tech only 2 techs there's no point not to grab them at every single era, and again even if you get them in different orders it doesn't change your gameplay at all, while even if you must go all 4 techs in the old system, the order you get tehm in, and the order you thus got the passive in, does affect the early game (two science buildings, and 4 different passives if I recall right, which can have a heavy effect on where you go and what you do).

anyway it's a filler system for now, all planets and colonization systems will be reworked soon i believe.

I disagree simply because the planet colonizing techs were and will be a "must-have", which is tunneling your research plans always, and makes you pick same teching options over and over again.

And I really think the colonizing techs were taking ways too much out of 10 picks you had per era.