Kynrael wrote:

Hi everyone!

The main differences between Faction hulls are indeed the distribution of slots on the hulls, their quantity and their restrictions (Are they on both sides of the hull? Are they for Weapon / Support / Defense modules? etc.). This means hulls should be rather different in their possibilities, but if you guys ever find something that doesn't seem to fit with intended roles / factions, do tell, we're all ears!

We do need to go over starting ship balances, to make sure each ship template fits the Faction the best it can. Otherwise, some Faction quests unlock specific modules (which are effectively Faction-specific). However, we haven't planned on making other Faction-specific modules for now (current Modules are still under work). Another route we might go down to differentiate factions is by making certain Battle Play Cards available for specific Factions only.

Hope this clears up our intentions about Ships!

Cheers,

Having hulls representing the factions better is definitely a thing that would be amazing and I think the placement of slots is a good start on this (although quite locked onto research) but not the full picture. What I think the OP is aiming at is attributes that are different when you'd strip both ships of the two factions next to each other and compare it's stats/attribute without having to touch any slot components (like for example the Necrophages had poison in EL which really gave them a specific playstyle in combat). You guys have always been amazing at making asymmetric narrative factions and having all races going for the same hulls with the same stripped attributes makes it feel less special which I totally understand. 

I'm almost tempted to say that hulls should be faction specific researches and not general for every faction as not every faction needs the same amount of hull unlocks (mega warship for UE anyone?), at the same time period and maybe not even in the same wheel part where Cravers could have new hulls in military where others have them on exploration or science to support the playstyle or mixed over different wheels fitting the style you pick. Anything that justifies them more than just different distribution of slots and a different graphic so to speak. You guys did this amazingly in EL! I bet you'll guys figure out something for ES 2 as well!

Just food for thought to talk about

To explain a bit more our design process: we are currently making sure the foundation of space combat (so, hulls) are solid and work well. Then, when we're happy with that, we'll start adding differentiation to create interesting asymmetries between factions. For example, your "Swarmer ships" idea could be materialized by a combat card that rewards using the same hulls in space combat, and coupled with the extended Command Points the Cravers have, create these swarm tactics for Space Battles. :)

And thanks a lot for your continuous feedback - it definitely gives us stuff to think about! :D

Totally understandable process :) Keep up the good work! (being a gamedev student I know it's a lot!) 

uriak wrote:

Are you planning for different faction combat doctrines as well (specific "cards" or even meta bonuses among all hull types ) ?

Specific combat cards is something we're considering as a way to additionally differentiate Factions!

Strawberry wrote:

Kynrael wrote:

It's part of our intentions to have hulls that are mostly similar, but differentiated with slot distribution and type. Unlike in EL, we don't have Minor Factions that can compensate unit types (if you lack supports / offense etc).

However, content wise, it's indeed food for thought - we already have faction traits and some quest techs that differentiate the ships more, but this could be explored further :)

Does every factions ships need to be compensated throughout every stage of the game though? I feel knowing when a faction is stronger and/or weaker in what part of the game is where gameplay starts to get interesting and shine. This is why the Ark from the Vodyani for example is pretty cool and a perfect example of a good step in differentiation between factions as you know it can also be used in combat and need to keep this in account when you make your choices. Although I agree most classes of ships probably should be similar (but different slot distribution) for structure and clarity (and also to make it doable for you guys to manage) I wouldn't be against factions having a few faction specific hulls like the ARK. For example I could imagine the UE having an extra warship at the end of the line that costs tons of industry and can be considered a flagship that once it falls actually disrupts your empire's propeganda but is in general stronger than the typical endhull in a 1 on 1 with other factions. Or swarmer ships for the Cravers that get stronger when used in numbers, etc. They should not just be simple upgrades but serve a purpose and should definitely have counterplay (Flagship costs ton of commandpoints and once taken down gives a huge down on the empire's , taking down numbers will make the Craver ships weaker, etc.). Might be geeking too much over this though haha! 

Also it has to be said again and I'll probably keep repeating it but I really need to say big kudo's to the dev team on being so open and engaging with us, the players. Love these discussions and input from both sides even if it's just to fantasize and geek about ;)

To explain a bit more our design process: we are currently making sure the foundation of space combat (so, hulls) are solid and work well. Then, when we're happy with that, we'll start adding differentiation to create interesting asymmetries between factions. For example, your "Swarmer ships" idea could be materialized by a combat card that rewards using the same hulls in space combat, and coupled with the extended Command Points the Cravers have, create these swarm tactics for Space Battles. :)

And thanks a lot for your continuous feedback - it definitely gives us stuff to think about! :D

Are you planning for different faction combat doctrines as well (specific "cards" or even meta bonuses among all hull types ) ?

Kynrael wrote:

It's part of our intentions to have hulls that are mostly similar, but differentiated with slot distribution and type. Unlike in EL, we don't have Minor Factions that can compensate unit types (if you lack supports / offense etc).

However, content wise, it's indeed food for thought - we already have faction traits and some quest techs that differentiate the ships more, but this could be explored further :)

Good enough for me =)

It's part of our intentions to have hulls that are mostly similar, but differentiated with slot distribution and type. Unlike in EL, we don't have Minor Factions that can compensate unit types (if you lack supports / offense etc).

However, content wise, it's indeed food for thought - we already have faction traits and some quest techs that differentiate the ships more, but this could be explored further :)

Strawberry wrote:

Kynrael wrote:

Hi everyone!

The main differences between Faction hulls are indeed the distribution of slots on the hulls, their quantity and their restrictions (Are they on both sides of the hull? Are they for Weapon / Support / Defense modules? etc.). This means hulls should be rather different in their possibilities, but if you guys ever find something that doesn't seem to fit with intended roles / factions, do tell, we're all ears!

We do need to go over starting ship balances, to make sure each ship template fits the Faction the best it can. Otherwise, some Faction quests unlock specific modules (which are effectively Faction-specific). However, we haven't planned on making other Faction-specific modules for now (current Modules are still under work). Another route we might go down to differentiate factions is by making certain Battle Play Cards available for specific Factions only.

Hope this clears up our intentions about Ships!

Cheers,

Having hulls representing the factions better is definitely a thing that would be amazing and I think the placement of slots is a good start on this (although quite locked onto research) but not the full picture. What I think the OP is aiming at is attributes that are different when you'd strip both ships of the two factions next to each other and compare it's stats/attribute without having to touch any slot components (like for example the Necrophages had poison in EL which really gave them a specific playstyle in combat). You guys have always been amazing at making asymmetric narrative factions and having all races going for the same hulls with the same stripped attributes makes it feel less special which I totally understand. 

I'm almost tempted to say that hulls should be faction specific researches and not general for every faction as not every faction needs the same amount of hull unlocks (mega warship for UE anyone?), at the same time period and maybe not even in the same wheel part where Cravers could have new hulls in military where others have them on exploration or science to support the playstyle or mixed over different wheels fitting the style you pick. Anything that justifies them more than just different distribution of slots and a different graphic so to speak. You guys did this amazingly in EL! I bet you'll guys figure out something for ES 2 as well!

Just food for thought to talk about

This is exactly what I was trying to convey with my posts. The different slots is a nice touch and all, but I feel like there could be more to make the faction stick out in space battle. Unique racial modules would be great, some passiv bonus would be even better. As Strawberry said; "Food for thought".

It depends on the hull. Basically small hulls have a x1 multiplier on their effects, medium ones x2, and large ones x4. It is visually represented for weapons (number of turrets for one slot).

Some slots in the ship design are also symetrical, which means you actually place down 2 modules when filling this slot.

If you were talking about small hulls then it might indeed be a bug.

I'm curious- how does one class of ship from one faction differentiate from another? Endless Legend was amazing because of the variety in factions and units, so I am just stuck here wondering - how are the corvettes of Sophons different from the ones of the Cravers? Is there any difference between any of the ships between the factions?

Hi everyone!

The main differences between Faction hulls are indeed the distribution of slots on the hulls, their quantity and their restrictions (Are they on both sides of the hull? Are they for Weapon / Support / Defense modules? etc.). This means hulls should be rather different in their possibilities, but if you guys ever find something that doesn't seem to fit with intended roles / factions, do tell, we're all ears!

We do need to go over starting ship balances, to make sure each ship template fits the Faction the best it can. Otherwise, some Faction quests unlock specific modules (which are effectively Faction-specific). However, we haven't planned on making other Faction-specific modules for now (current Modules are still under work). Another route we might go down to differentiate factions is by making certain Battle Play Cards available for specific Factions only.

Hope this clears up our intentions about Ships!

Cheers,

Zenicetus wrote:

I would welcome more differences between ship armament and capabilities. I hope the reason they're so similar isn't just for multiplayer "balance" (the bane of good strategy game design). ES2 is already carving out a niche as a space 4X with asymmetrical factions, and that should be reflected in the ships as well.

Very much this.

I would welcome more differences between ship armament and capabilities. I hope the reason they're so similar isn't just for multiplayer "balance" (the bane of good strategy game design). ES2 is already carving out a niche as a space 4X with asymmetrical factions, and that should be reflected in the ships as well.

With the additions to the battle side of things I may now be interested in actually getting ES2 again. But unique traits for each faction's ships would be nice as well. Especially if they are interesting.

Pretty much. Just something to mix it up. I would also like to hear the developers view on this - whatever it might be.

Alright. I would be very interested in seeing these future changes - would very much like to see some more solid differences between the faction ships.