Asuzu wrote:

Sure, I'll kick the baby, if everyone does it.

The game was released too soon.

I purchased it in EA.

It was unplayable by turn 60, memory leaks, bugs, degenerating performance. Dumb AI doing dumb AI stuff.

That's on top end PC with GTX980, latest Intel processor and 16Gb RAM. I shudder to think what is going on with people who have less powerful PCs.

Now it is "released" but overall still feels barely optimized, with gazillion of bugs and still degenerating performance.

So basically I have the game sitting on my PC for a while now - a few months, still unplayable, waiting for those patches.

If the modern policy is to turn your customers into unpaid QA testers, I guess it works, but only for 1 product.

No way in hell I am ever pre-paying for experience like that.

I see several core issues as it is:

1) Simultaneous turns blow

End of turn slows everything to a crawl, because you save the game, process all events, and move ships same time.

There is no definitive "end" of turn, you still do global crap when it's my turn already.

That's bad.

If we are talking turn-based, let everyone do their moves/turns, then neutrals, then me.

Stop moving galaxy when I am trying to think what to do.

So, make turns actual turn-based, e.g. enemy does not act/move when it's my turn.

2) Too much unoptimized civilian life

Yeah I remember how everyone was asking for civilian ships to make galaxy more alive.

But clogging the game with thousands of civilian ships, especially when AI starts moving his pops between planets nonstop - bringing even most powerful PCs to their knees - that's not the option we had in mind boys.

If you have performance problems running those civilians, at the very least, instead of making them visual de-facto, give us the option keep them as a quick background calculation.

i'd say please do not make it IGUGO (turn based)  because it would kill multiplayer.(real men play multiplayer) 

 and no please keep civilians visible , the more visible representation the better. immersion is important, and if you ask me i 'd say we need more immersion

i am very dissapointed with  multiplayer stability , but overall game works almost 60fps non stop for me (vsync enabled)

and i have slightly/moderately weaker pc than you:

i5 4690k 4.5ghz

gtx970 oc

8gb ram

HDD

buggs are problem

please do not write words like : "EA" it reminds me of Electronic Arts company

The fact is... Like Paradox strategy games, Amplitude create really complex stuff... By really complex, I mean, literally, that any average or low spec computer older than 6 years wouldn't be able to only handle the logic behind it. You can't expect games to be bug free on release, it's completely surrealistic.

Which is making you reacting is just one or two big bugs, introduced by fixes... Which created endless (no pun intended) loops AI bugs... These are game breaking bugs and don't reflect the whole quality of the product.

This game weren't released too soon... as many players come, the more you get bugs as you have a lot more different ways to play the game. I generally point out bugs nobody had before as I try things, sometime stupid, sometime not usual, and I get these errors... or as I noticed, people don't see any bug where there's one, they take this or that as a feature.

Now, this game is released and, as they did before, they'll solve  all  issues we can submit. Note that the 1.0.5, despite introducing some infinite loop issue in AI, included fix for 3/4 of the other bugs reported until now.

Look at games like WOW... 13 years it's out and there's still lingering bugs coming back with patches requiring hotfixes... This is happening EVERYWHERE, and it's related to the global complexity of the tools we now use every day...

As a web developer, I see how I came from simple HTML sites to HTML5/CSS/JavaScript with PHP backend and from a hundred lines to two thousands... not for the same result for sure, but at the cost of a few bug arising there and there.

Sure, I'll kick the baby, if everyone does it.

The game was released too soon.

I purchased it in EA.

It was unplayable by turn 60, memory leaks, bugs, degenerating performance. Dumb AI doing dumb AI stuff.

That's on top end PC with GTX980, latest Intel processor and 16Gb RAM. I shudder to think what is going on with people who have less powerful PCs.

Now it is "released" but overall still feels barely optimized, with gazillion of bugs and still degenerating performance.

So basically I have the game sitting on my PC for a while now - a few months, still unplayable, waiting for those patches.

If the modern policy is to turn your customers into unpaid QA testers, I guess it works, but only for 1 product.

No way in hell I am ever pre-paying for experience like that.

I see several core issues as it is:

1) Simultaneous turns blow

End of turn slows everything to a crawl, because you save the game, process all events, and move ships same time.

There is no definitive "end" of turn, you still do global crap when it's my turn already.

That's bad.

If we are talking turn-based, let everyone do their moves/turns, then neutrals, then me.

Stop moving galaxy when I am trying to think what to do.

So, make turns actual turn-based, e.g. enemy does not act/move when it's my turn.

2) Too much unoptimized civilian life

Yeah I remember how everyone was asking for civilian ships to make galaxy more alive.

But clogging the game with thousands of civilian ships, especially when AI starts moving his pops between planets nonstop - bringing even most powerful PCs to their knees - that's not the option we had in mind boys.

If you have performance problems running those civilians, at the very least, instead of making them visual de-facto, give us the option keep them as a quick background calculation.

*Double post*

Considering the huge amount of features ES2 have compared to all their previous games, one could say that they are performing better. ;)

PS: By the way where are all my very importants forum veterancy medals gone!? With this new candycrush style forum I look like a baby, it's scandalous! ^^

Someway I agree with @Aghastamok.

This game has been released too soon.

Understand me, if you look into forums for my comments, I love this game, and most of time defend Amplitude, because I also like lots the way they work with the community.

I have no troubles in actual game status, as I had been there all EA and it has improved a lot, but I'm afraid people who buys the game expecting a finished product and with high hopes on Amplitude may feel dissapointed.

Sorry to say that. Really I want Amplitude to success, because at few months after release both EL and Es1 turned into very good games (I was too in EL EA) and I want more games like them. What I'm afraid is that the well earned prestige may be lost due to a quick release.

ES 2 is a very good game introducing fresh concepts to 4X and really want Amplitude selling lots of copies, to allow them continue working and making good stuff, but I'm bit worried all good work done can be lost.

Still and to be honest, at 6 days after release, Steam spy says about 90.000 owners of Es2. Not to count over a million for Es1, El and 700.000 DotE (My link with search 24/05/17: http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=endless), all of them with userscores over 80%, add to this if you search "Endless" in steamspy, all Amp games are the first to appear. More about that 1.600+ revies on Steam are mostly positive and recommend this game.

With this numbers in mind, still have hope that with a quick fixes of actual issues they can recover they prestige fast enough.

Sorry for the rant. My best wishes for you, Amplitude, hope you can continue making good stuff. 

I understand your point of view but the major problem in the most case of a new game release is "Players have short memory".

Yes Amplitude had a solid reputation (and they must preserve it) and made polished games but no that was not realy more bug than on the previous release day one.

Endless Space had plenty bug and balance problem and a realy poor UI but that was the first one from a small indie, they bring back 4x at the top and we forgive and forget.

Patches and further Disharmony made the game well polished and we enjoy it.

Endless Legend had same problem too, the game 1.0 and the game today is completely not the same.

Maybe ES2 release was a bit too soon, maybe the players become demanding too because Amplitude generate more hype than before.

I know that releasing game too soon is a slipery slope but I think it's a bit too soon to take out the torches.