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Lore: Clarification, The Vaulters and Opbot's Origins? [SPOILERS]

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7 years ago
Jan 26, 2018, 2:38:15 AM
Crixler wrote:

So here are some of my thoughts on the matter.


In the Last Flight of the Grey Owl, which probably takes place before DotE, the Hissho bring some Raians aboard the Grey Owl with them on their way to Auriga. It's interesting that they are referred to specifically as "Raians", rather than "Mezari" or "humans" or something, but yeah. So that's possibly the first wave of humans to arrive on Auriga. I personally believe this is where the Roving Clans/Ardent Mages and Sisters of Mercy come from. I believe I've read that Mizi Kurtiz from DotE is a Sister of Mercy, and she was already on the planet, not on the Success. The DotE merchants also bear a resemblance to the Roving Clansmen, with their attire, merchant-ness, and association with pugs. So those factions were already on the planet before the Success.


And then there's the Success, with its prisoners and crew. It's notable that none of the DotE characters appear to be Zolyas, so how did the Zolya clan find its way to Auriga?

But there was one other Mezari ship to arrive on Auriga not long after the Success - that of the Rescue Team. I don't think their ship has ever been named or shown, but it was also shot down. Could that have been the Argosy? Maybe, maybe not.


And then there are the EL Mezari. They unfortunately never got their own questline, but they do have their own leader and hero, complete with her own biography. So they aren't actually just an alternate skin for the Vaulters, they exist alongside the Vaulters on Auriga. Where did they come from? Are they also descendents of the Success survivors, that have managed to hold on to their culture a bit better than the Vaulters? Or are they survivors from yet another Mezari trip to Auriga, a more recent one? Could they be the source of the Argosy? But if the Argosy is a newer, more recent arrival, then why would Opbot remember it?


TL;DR I have no idea how it all fits together. Please help us, Slowhands

Yeah Spock we needja on this one 


As far as I've read the Zolya clan is actually a Mezari Clan (Varb St Zouieina is a former (Mezari) Zolya), so they probably arrived either in DotE or on the Argosy/Second Mezari Wave or a combination of all 3. 


I feel that the Argosy is the oldest of the three ships, it only makes sense 

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7 years ago
Mar 22, 2018, 6:38:37 PM

Thanks for the update, Slow! I'm thrilled to hear that there's work to be done, as I think that's a great sign that the Endless universe has even higher up it can reach in the, uh, scale of awesomeness. You give us so much, including the fireside chats- I'm certain that any further fixes and clarification will be worth the wait.

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7 years ago
Mar 17, 2018, 8:17:28 PM
Slowhands wrote:


However, we are in the process of writing up a more formal and structured universe bible, and a more formal and structured timeline will be part of it... eventually. So I have to apologize for the delay and ask you all to wait. Most of the problem is that any blips and confusion in the timeline and event lore is my fault, so I have to get in there and figure out how to fix it!

Oh yes! I want this so much!

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7 years ago
Mar 14, 2018, 5:12:58 PM

Just make a book please and sell it, I want a full fledged book.


Love how the crash of the Success also ties the vaulters and Horatios origin story together.


 Horatio was on Auriga at the time the Success was shot down, he saw it crash through the surface to the endless labs below and just followed it down and pretended he was on the prison ship all the time

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Mar 14, 2018, 3:13:17 PM

That’s awesome news ! I can’t wait to read what you and the Amplitude team create ! 

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7 years ago
Mar 14, 2018, 9:58:50 AM

That sounds fantastic! Vaulters are so built up over the games and after years of playing these games I find myself trying to piece together how they were built up and splintered, so I really appreciated the Mezari/Vaulter heroes of EL that expanded on the humanoid faction relationships on Auriga. An interconnected timeline that spirals out of control because of such a large scale is just my cup of tea! 


 I only check the forums only once in awhile however I love seeing anything lore related. Take your time to smooth out the details and set a strong lore! If we can get some extra hints here and there, and maybe some tie-ins with other Aurigan factions or hints to future surpises without completely revealing your hand that would be fun too! 

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7 years ago
Mar 14, 2018, 9:32:41 AM

Hi all,


I started working on this until it spiraled out of control and started turning into a massive timeline effort for the entire Endless Universe. So, to be honest, I never completed it, then had to drop it to finish up the two new content packs, and now I'm scared to go back to it...


However, we are in the process of writing up a more formal and structured universe bible, and a more formal and structured timeline will be part of it... eventually. So I have to apologize for the delay and ask you all to wait. Most of the problem is that any blips and confusion in the timeline and event lore is my fault, so I have to get in there and figure out how to fix it!


- Slow

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7 years ago
Feb 19, 2018, 7:44:03 PM
Slowhands wrote:
MiDan wrote:
...

Regarding Opbot, I think there's two options: a) treat DOTE as a cameo (let's face it, the game is bonkers anyway; it's the Discworld of Endless lore) ...

I take that as a compliment!  More seriously, I am working on a simple overview of all these story threads. I'll have it up in the next couple days.


- Slow

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I am trying to find where this might have turned up, but can't find it? (I was away for af few weeks)

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7 years ago
Feb 5, 2018, 3:05:10 AM

Hey everyone,


Long time fan of the games and a full blooded Vaulter at heart myself. I dont have the most supream understanding of the lore, but here is my take based on the countless hours I have spent in game with this faction.  Please feel free to provide details if you have any on my misjudgements. 


{Spoilers Ahead] as if that wasnt clear by now


Lets start with discussing the Mezari. It is pretty well accepted Cannon that the Mezari are the oldest known major civilization of "human" humanoids in the Endless Universe.  They were a technologically advanced civilization that from details in ES2 were forced to flee their original planet due to overpopulation/cataclysm of sorts. This mass exodus was directly responsible for the eventual colonization of the Planet Raia, as well as the planet Auriga. 


The people known as the Vaulters were orginally part of a colony ship known as the Argosy. Their intro video in EL shows a massive portion of the ring of the original ship on one of the frames, suggesting it crashed on the planet, presumably due to the same Laser deffense grid we see in the DoTE opening.  At that time, the planet was quickly being consumed by some cataclysmic event. This may be the same event that lead to the Broken Lords giving up their physical forms, or it may be a different one. It seems likely based on cut scenes that Aruiga goes through many periods of paradise and cataclysm throughout its history.  Only the strongest most resilient lifeforms find ways to adapt and survive the cataclysms and reimurge once paradise returns. The Mezari of the Argosy were stranded on a planet with little to no fucntional technology and no hope of resucue due to their homeworld being in ruin. Their spaceship had burrowed into the ground and created a shelter of sorts, but to survive the storms of the surface they had to dig deeper and mine a new home below the surface untl the cataclysm passed. 


As a mostly isolated race for an undisclosed amount of time, presumably many generations, they forgot much of their past. The great Quake that cracks open their halls and reveals parts of their ship and its technology, long abandoned by now as they had deleved deeper into the heart of Ariga to escape the storms above, forced them to face their past once more.  They had a choice to make. Stay isolated in the depths of thier mines and hope the Quake was not a warning of worse thigns to come, or emerage and seek out the lost knowldege of their past and find a new hope for their future. I think we are all glad for the path Zolya, 1st of the Bloodline was able to convince her people to take.


Enter Op bot. It is unclear op bots exact origins.  One thing that is often forgotten in the course of his discusion is that like most droid like entities in science fiction, he was probably mass produced. It is very likely that opbots were a common support robot sent on ships and stationed at facilities all over the Mezari empire. While it is possible that the Opbot in the story is indeed the same opbot from DoTE, it is entierly possible they are just similar models of the same bot. I think it makes sense to assume it is indeed the same one however, so lets review. his possible orgin as I like to imagine it. 


I think The Success was clearly a penal colony ship sent prior to the Argosy's crash landing.  This would be before the mass migration of the Mezari Empire, as basicly a pre courser to try and help alleviate overpopulation which is hinted at being part of the problem that leads to their cataclysm.  On a planet with too many people, it is easy to vote the worst scumm of the group to be kicked off the island so to speak. This was also perhaps a trial run to perhaps map out new potential homes that later colony ships could be sent to. The Argosy happen to be one of these that was plotted on the same path as the Success, and edured the same fate. That is how it fits in my mind. 


Op Bot himself has memories of Violence and bloodshed, but I think it is possible his memories are more a form of robot PTSD form engaing in combat with som many mosters to try and keep himself and his allies alive. There are hints that he may have been a malfucntioning robot as well, maybe even prior tohis trip aboard the Success, but due to his incomplete memories i think its best to take his past with a grain of salt instead of at face value. For example...seeing the Argosy...a Mezari ship...could have triggered memories of being on a ship. Any ship of similar orgin. Most ships look the same when built by the same hands. The fact that it triggers a memory of him on a ship doesnt mean it was defintely the Argosy that he was on.  


In otherwords, I think OpBot may not be the monster he sees himself to be, but his lack of memory paints a picture that suggests that. There is an old episode of one of my favorite TV shows that plays this trope. Anyone who has ever watched enough McGyver knows that Mac routinely losses him memory in various seasons. In one season of perticular note, he thinks he may be a bad guy due to his memories of action and violence and explosions and espinonage flashing into his mind with missing context. He later discovers this isnt the case as his memoories return and his good intention impulses he acts out in the episode are actually the real him. I see a similar potential arc in OpBots narrative. 


To my dismay, In ES2 when the Academy reveals to the Vaulters that the people they left behind actually make it off Ariga as well long after the Argosy 2.0, but before they all died to cataclysm; I was crushed when the second wave of survivors didnt turn out to be the United Empire. I thought that would have been a neat twist. That could have lead to a multi branched quest line of reconciliation by diplomacy or force.       


Ah well. Cant wait to see if anyone else has more good info onthis Faction to share that I am missing so I can update my memory banks further.  I absolutely love every thing about this faction and they are my favorite one in all of SciFi right now.     


        



Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jan 30, 2018, 1:56:12 PM

There is also the fact than Bayari Kulaa (founder-hero figure of Forgotten) and Irjisko Lasmak are both listed as Mezari, as far as I can remember Bayari even can develop science in a city and be assigned as science trade curator for that Vaulter chapter.


I guess EL "Mezari" represent initial generations of crashlanders (from different ships, though "Argosy" proper could function as a central hub of colonisation fleet, so all pieces were nearby when calamity struck). After that those Mezari who remained subterranean became Vaulters, those who left - became Forgotten (slowly rejecting all "science" outright). When we play as Mezari in EL we pick alternate continuity where their empire managed to preserve more of their heritage (their units even look more advanced). There is also mention that surface of Auriga was considerably more lethal at that time period, though I do not know what to think of it (also Forgotten intro mentions surviving on the "world gone mad").


Alternatively - there is also mentions of that group of rogue Mezari scientists who experimented on their compatriots. They presumably were also banished - for that nasty stuff. Could that be that THEY were prime ancestors of Vaulters-proper, or at least Zolyas were part of their experiments? 


There are also Delvers who were "trapped" underground for decades. They could have been just another offshot of that Mezari colonisation effort, (on a more silly note I even fancied my last Vaulter-allied dredges as "Clan Pekenyo"... Also I think Ken would gladly join some Ardent circle but nevermind...)

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jan 30, 2018, 1:29:42 PM
Slowhands wrote:
MiDan wrote:
...

Regarding Opbot, I think there's two options: a) treat DOTE as a cameo (let's face it, the game is bonkers anyway; it's the Discworld of Endless lore) ...

I take that as a compliment!  More seriously, I am working on a simple overview of all these story threads. I'll have it up in the next couple days.


- Slow

Certainly not intended as an insult! Looking forward to the overview, always hungry for more Endless lore :D

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7 years ago
Jan 29, 2018, 2:44:34 PM
MiDan wrote:
...

Regarding Opbot, I think there's two options: a) treat DOTE as a cameo (let's face it, the game is bonkers anyway; it's the Discworld of Endless lore) ...

I take that as a compliment!  More seriously, I am working on a simple overview of all these story threads. I'll have it up in the next couple days.


- Slow

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jan 26, 2018, 2:45:45 PM

Regarding Opbot, I think there's two options: a) treat DOTE as a cameo (let's face it, the game is bonkers anyway; it's the Discworld of Endless lore) or b) assume his faulty memory caused him to conflate his life on/before the Success with the rediscovered Argosy.

In the case of Opbot these two possibilities can be real.


a) Yes, Opbot appears on DotE but he is not from the Success. He came before from the Argosy ship. The Argosy ship crashed with him inside (he was in a locked cell because he was killing people). He manages to get out of the crash and lives in the underground of Auriga. Later, the Success crashes, the crew escapes in different escape pods and they find each other in the underground. They find Opbot and just assume he was part of their crew, althought nobody remembers if he was part of the prisoners or the guards (that's part of his bio info in DotE). That confusion comes from the fact that he is neither guard or prisoner of the Success. He was a prisoner of the Argosy (thus why he has the prisoner special skill in DotE) and came to Auriga befoe them.


b) As I posted earlier, Opbot kills on the Argosy, he is locked away on the Success. The Argosy crashes in Auriga. Someone decides to send the Success prisoners to Auriga as another method of colonisation. Opbot survives DotE. And during EL he can only remember the Argosy part of his past.

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7 years ago
Jan 26, 2018, 1:11:21 PM
...unless the Endless just kidnapped some humans and put them there?? 

I think this is actually pretty likely. We know the Endless used Auriga as a biological lab - and it's interesting to note that the Forgotten are specifically identified as Vaulter offshoots in their lore, where other human factions aren't. Perhaps the human species even predates the Mezari heritage? Could be the Endless seeded Mezan to begin with, in the grand sci-fi tradition of precursor jackassery.

Regarding Opbot, I think there's two options: a) treat DOTE as a cameo (let's face it, the game is bonkers anyway; it's the Discworld of Endless lore) or b) assume his faulty memory caused him to conflate his life on/before the Success with the rediscovered Argosy.


Given Jeff's opinion on 'canon', you may as well just choose whichever makes you happiest :)

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jan 26, 2018, 2:52:58 AM
Crixler wrote:

So here are some of my thoughts on the matter.


In the Last Flight of the Grey Owl, which probably takes place before DotE, the Hissho bring some Raians aboard the Grey Owl with them on their way to Auriga. It's interesting that they are referred to specifically as "Raians", rather than "Mezari" or "humans" or something, but yeah. So that's possibly the first wave of humans to arrive on Auriga. I personally believe this is where the Roving Clans/Ardent Mages and Sisters of Mercy come from. I believe I've read that Mizi Kurtiz from DotE is a Sister of Mercy, and she was already on the planet, not on the Success. The DotE merchants also bear a resemblance to the Roving Clansmen, with their attire, merchant-ness, and association with pugs. So those factions were already on the planet before the Success.



Hmm, the most logical explanation is that the Roving Clans and the Ardent Mages are of Mezari origins. I mean, ultimately Mezari is just a name for the collective human species that once had an empire. Raian refers specifically to the humans of Raia, although you could just call them Imperials. The clans and the mages though look undoubtedly human, and it would make sense for them to be, technically, descendants of the Mezari humans, unless the Endless just kidnapped some humans and put them there?? The same would apply for the Sisters of Mercy. I think it's just difficult to trace the humans accross the galaxy, although again we should just call them Mezari as a species name since we lack an actual species name for the "humans" in ES2.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jan 25, 2018, 7:05:15 PM

Hey everyone,


The G2G discord was talking about the origins of Opbot, and I wanted to see if I could get some clarification here- hopefully from Slow', but if you can post any proof, screenshots of text, etc, Please go ahead! Also, forgive me, I am pretty new to the series and so a lot of my own details are fuzzy. Please correct me if you need! This thread's mostly on behalf of those who couldn't come to an agreement on the Discord.


The questions:


Does Opbot arrive on Auriga on the Argosy, or on Sucess during Dungeon'?


And also, are the Vaulters descended from the Mezari on the Sucess, or from the Argosy, an event that happens before Dungeon'?


I was reading the Wiki for Dungeon', and came across this: http://dungeon-of-the-endless.wikia.com/wiki/Opbot_DV8 and this: http://dungeon-of-the-endless.wikia.com/wiki/Whiskey_Tango_Foxtrot_Interrogative . So from this at least, we can figure that Opbot did arrive on Success because Ken knows who Opbot is. 


What the dudes in the Discord could not agree on, then, was Opbot's relation to the Argosy, the ship that the Vaulters leave on. Now, I'm sorry to say, I haven't had time to play through the Vaulter's quest in Endless Legend, so I can't confirm if the EL questline does in fact say they arrived on the Argosy, only that Opbot helps them.


For sake of feedback, I'll say that for my own self, the lore I had come across after playing DoTE, EL, and some of ES2, gave me the idea that the Vaulters were of the Mezari in DoTE, but that if you play as the Mezari in EL, you're pretending to squish time.


So, what's the canon on that? I hope it doesn't break the rule about invalidating our play-throughs, because I view it more of an issue of whether Dungeon is canon or not! I realize it was developed alongside 'Legend, so I am unsure.


Thanks!


Edit: Also, I understand this text was voted on, and is Opbot's description in ES2:

Operating a recon mission, Academy scouts were exceedingly surprised to discover that a promising species of pre-sentients had, within the span of a few years, gone from huddling in mud hovels to trying their hand at space exploration. Investigating this extraordinary technological leap, the scouts eventually met a battered robot who introduced itself as Opbot 0V8. It explained that after drifting through space for quite a bit and subsequently crashing on this planet, it was rescued by the natives. As they were friendly but of limited intellectual reach, Opbot decided to help them "get there faster" --but declined to share more details on the process.


So then, was he not on Sucess? Does that mean, then, that the Vaulters are not from the Sucess?


Update: 

So, Emaps the Cosmic Spacecat of Discord was able to find a list of quest dialogue on one of the many wikis that I wasn't able to find. Thank you Emaps! https://endlesslegend.gamepedia.com/Quests


"Stalking the dimly-lit corridors of the "Argosy" has brought back all the horrors in my mind. I remember odd details - desperate hands gripping a bulkhead, a woman scrabbling to get away into a vent, staring at a bloody scalpel with gleeful fascination. The memories stun me immobile, unable to speak."


So now we know that the lore of the two games, developed side-by-side, indeed contradicts themselves, that is unless the Argosy and Success are the same thing. So now we wait for clarification! I'll update the OP when there's more, thanks!


Update 2:

So I see now that it's explicitly said in ES2 that the Vaulters come from convicts and prisoners. So now the question would just be what is the difference between the Argosy and the Sucess?

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jan 26, 2018, 2:25:32 AM

So here are some of my thoughts on the matter.


In the Last Flight of the Grey Owl, which probably takes place before DotE, the Hissho bring some Raians aboard the Grey Owl with them on their way to Auriga. It's interesting that they are referred to specifically as "Raians", rather than "Mezari" or "humans" or something, but yeah. So that's possibly the first wave of humans to arrive on Auriga. I personally believe this is where the Roving Clans/Ardent Mages and Sisters of Mercy come from. I believe I've read that Mizi Kurtiz from DotE is a Sister of Mercy, and she was already on the planet, not on the Success. The DotE merchants also bear a resemblance to the Roving Clansmen, with their attire, merchant-ness, and association with pugs. So those factions were already on the planet before the Success.


And then there's the Success, with its prisoners and crew. It's notable that none of the DotE characters appear to be Zolyas, so how did the Zolya clan find its way to Auriga?

But there was one other Mezari ship to arrive on Auriga not long after the Success - that of the Rescue Team. I don't think their ship has ever been named or shown, but it was also shot down. Could that have been the Argosy? Maybe, maybe not.


And then there are the EL Mezari. They unfortunately never got their own questline, but they do have their own leader and hero, complete with her own biography. So they aren't actually just an alternate skin for the Vaulters, they exist alongside the Vaulters on Auriga. Where did they come from? Are they also descendents of the Success survivors, that have managed to hold on to their culture a bit better than the Vaulters? Or are they survivors from yet another Mezari trip to Auriga, a more recent one? Could they be the source of the Argosy? But if the Argosy is a newer, more recent arrival, then why would Opbot remember it?


TL;DR I have no idea how it all fits together. Please help us, Slowhands

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7 years ago
Jan 26, 2018, 1:10:02 AM
TartarusMkII wrote:

@Suis3i , there is dialogue from someone I do not know that I saw in a screenshot on Discord of someone telling you, of the vaulters, that they are decended from prisoners. I haven't played more of it myself, so I can't give more detail. It's from a screen capture though. Assuming a dev gets to look at this thread, they'd just know, I assume.

Well I just went through all the Vaulter Quests in ES2 and I found no reference to them being descended from prisoners but I did find references to them being descended from the Mezari settlers on the Argosy. 


The second photo is when they talk about how they relate to the pirates, but that was simply b/c they understood that they are people who are struggling to survive same as they are 


[Spoilers for the Vaulter Quest; don't look if you don't want to know what happens lol]



Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jan 25, 2018, 11:20:50 PM

@Suis3i , there is dialogue from someone I do not know that I saw in a screenshot on Discord of someone telling you, of the vaulters, that they are decended from prisoners. I haven't played more of it myself, so I can't give more detail. It's from a screen capture though. Assuming a dev gets to look at this thread, they'd just know, I assume.

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7 years ago
Jan 25, 2018, 11:03:45 PM
TartarusMkII wrote:

So I see now that it's explicitly said in ES2 that the Vaulters come from convicts and prisoners. So now the question would just be what is the difference between the Argosy and the Sucess?

As far as I know, along with the current canon story of the Vautlers, the Vautlers are the remnants of the original Mezari colonists aboard the Arogsy, who long ago had crashlanded on Auriga (presumably being shot down or some sort of shipboard malfunction). The survivors would later use the hull of the Arogsy as a massive fortress-city, and would eventually create vast underground/mountain cities across Auriga, until they were eventually driven out of the Argosy by natives to the planet. Eventually, after the Great Quake, the Vaulters discover Opbot (a Mezari medical bot; like Sublustris earlier stated). The rest of the story is told in Endless Legend, the Vautler comic, and then the Vaulter ES2 Main Quest. 


Regarding whether or not the Success and the Arogsy are the same ships kinda says for itself.

The success, a Mezari prison ship, was destroyed by Auriga security satellites, with the exception for the escape pods. 

Though some of the Vaulters may have arrived from the Success's survivors, a vast majority of them are the survivors of the Arogsy. 


Reiterating on Sublistris's point, the Arogsy was presumably a cryo-sleep colonization ship (however, the cryo pods could have been added by the Vaulters later when they repaired the ship, as isn't made clear). 


I'll check on the Quest later but I'm not sure where it said they are directly descended from convicts and prisoners. 


Also Opbot has two origin stories, one as a medical bot on the Arogsy, and the other as a bot on the Success, although both ships are very different. And since Endless lore between DotE, ES2, ES1 and EL sometimes differ, it would be best to look at the canonic lore from EL and ES2 as these two are the closest games together and are connected in multiple ways. 




It's also good to note that the Vaulters symbol is just a version of the Mezari symbol, and that in the Livestream and I think on the steam page they talk about how the Vaulters follow their Mezari origins in their ships and they did look for the Mezari homeworld of Mezan; all of this pointing to that they are descendents of the Mezari settlers and not prisoners and convicts  


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