Nasarog wrote:

Yup, now, if we only had a clear timeline, and also something connecting ES1 to ES2 more clearly.

My understanding is that ES2 is a reboot of sorts, that ES1 had not happened, and inspires the re-events of ES2.

MiDan wrote:

Fun thought: Horatio is the player in DOTE. He authored the journals, influenced the team loadout, and is canonically present but not a hero. He's shown healing the team in the comic (which the player can do directly) and a super-genius like Horatio would see the "overview" of the situation. He's smart enough to stay out of trouble, so that's why he's effectively invisible (he wouldn't consider himself a pawn on the board). The player also joins the team after the crash, not during.

Or was this totally the implication and I'm just stating the obvious?

You are stating the obvious, in retrospect. Now that you finally figured it out, it seems so easy. It totally makes sense and explains like all the questions. 

MiDan wrote:

Fun thought: Horatio is the player in DOTE. He authored the journals, influenced the team loadout, and is canonically present but not a hero. He's shown healing the team in the comic (which the player can do directly) and a super-genius like Horatio would see the "overview" of the situation. He's smart enough to stay out of trouble, so that's why he's effectively invisible (he wouldn't consider himself a pawn on the board). The player also joins the team after the crash, not during.

Or was this totally the implication and I'm just stating the obvious?

I'm gonna lay awake at night and think about this

1. This is the implication. 

2. But I would not call it stating the obvious ;)  We were pretty vague with the hints!

-Slow

Haha, I just got back from a few-week break. I love that /thread dropped at the end. Thank you Slow! So much appreciation here!

Yup, now, if we only had a clear timeline, and also something connecting ES1 to ES2 more clearly.

So since we are talking about Horatio, it is quite clear that Horatio Prime wins at the end of the quest and succesfully tricks Four who up to that point was the narrator, right?  Or did I misunderstand the quest line?

Horatio was actually one of the better written questlines imo (best one is United Empire imo).

This I am curious to know too. The ending is left ambiguous (I believe both are alive at the end vying for the power when I went through the non military path where you don't kill Five). But then again, it has been a while since I played as Horatio..

MiDan wrote:

Fun thought: Horatio is the player in DOTE. He authored the journals, influenced the team loadout, and is canonically present but not a hero. He's shown healing the team in the comic (which the player can do directly) and a super-genius like Horatio would see the "overview" of the situation. He's smart enough to stay out of trouble, so that's why he's effectively invisible (he wouldn't consider himself a pawn on the board). The player also joins the team after the crash, not during.

Or was this totally the implication and I'm just stating the obvious?

....you know I haven't thought of this.

Shit....I played as Horatio at some point. 

Suis3i wrote:

Honestly, I can’t tell if this post (@WeLoveYou) is being serious ot a massive shitpost

It is actually fucking great though.  More interesting than if it were just clones.

However, if we stick to canon, I do think most Horatio clones would suffer from a depersonalization disorder, and potentially in severe cases a dissociative personality disorder.  And while Horatio Prime certainly has severe narcissism, all other Horatios who are bound by effectively a class system based on 'imperfections' are pretty much going to end up with borderline personality disorders all over the place.

WeLoveYou wrote:

The actual, indisputable, but lesser known lore for Horatio:

Officially Horatio uses cloning technology to make versions of himself, married with genetic alterations on a massive scale to improve himself and others. LIES AND HALF TRUTHS.

The so-called cloning technology is a myth. With Endless technology, the actual process using trans-world Meinong jungle fissures generates small impossibilities within the universe focussed in such a way to create anti-indiscernability of identity fields. The result is, in effect, that a single object, or being, can be located in multiple times and places at once. By implementing this technology on a mass scale, there is still technically only one Horatio in the entire galaxy, that simply occupies many places at once. This has the advantage that any genetic manipulations need only be carried out on one single being. That being Horatio. Use of biological matter allows for the fuelling and expansion of the process, such that more food means more Horatio. Any seeming differences between a Horatio at different space time points is either a result of B-Series temporal differences, illusionary, or a deliberate attempt to hide what could be an extremely powerful weapon or tool used by anyone other than Horatio. The unfortunate, though somewhat predictable, side effect of industrial scale use for an individual is a form of depersonalisation disorder as the result of multiple encounters, conversations, dinners, and disagreements, with themselves

With this obvious, and clearly true version of Horatio lore, which will never be disputed by anyone, including the writers. The answer to the question of who is who, and who survives at the end of the Horatio story line is clear. The answer is - Horatio.

F***K never,, ever I would suspect this by only reading ES1&2 quests lore. Amazing!!!

That's because it's made up by Horatio's enemies. Only they would pretend that Horatio is in many places, for that way they imply you need only kill him once.

Don't even try.

Frogsquadron wrote:

That's because it's made up by Horatio's enemies. Only they would pretend that Horatio is in many places, for that way they imply you need only kill him once.

Don't even try.

Anselm's fifth law of thermodynamics - you can't kill perfection.

XD this thread XD

MiDan wrote:

...

Awesome! This has given me a new appreciation for Dungeon of the Endless and Horatio in general, haha.

But it does make me anxious about what other secrets you've tucked away that we haven't noticed yet!

P.S. Did I get the job...? :P

By definition, we could never tell you what other secrets might be hidden away. That would kill all the fun of it :)

-Slow

MidnightTea wrote:

The one thing about Horatio's canon that kind of has me scratching my head is whether female Horatio are still a thing.  They existed in ES1, but do they exist in ES2?  Horatio society would probably discriminate against them even if there are female ones, just for their distance from the original one whom I'm pretty sure is male. Either way, if ES2 Horatio has his druthers, there probably wouldn't even be gender as a concept anyway. (as all beings of all genders would become him)

Sorry if this question had been answered before, but I had tried searching the forums for it.

I haven't seen one in ES2 (like in the art and whatnot) nor have I seen any mentions of them, so I doubt it. Plus, Horatio is following the classic "Kamino-Clones" approach, where each subsequent clone is as much like the original as possible. Horatio also reproduces through cloning, with no need for female Horatios (though crossbreeding with other species, especially other Mezari derived species is entirely possible for Horatio's living in other galactic civilizations). Lastly, he's the biggest narcissist, and believes how he is right now is perfect, so I doubt he would want to change his clones physically to look any different than how he appears. 

Hope this helped ~ 

Horatio made it to Auriga on purpose. His intention was to find endless technology to perfect his gene pool to reach immortality and acquire proper cloning technology to build his own empire. He is the author DotE journal. He panipulated prisoners and crew of Success prison ship as a temporary bait and shield, and he reached his goal. I think there is at least a millenia between DotE and EL events, and millenia between EL and ES2, according to Vaulters main quest.

So do you reckon that Horatio has been artificially alive all of this time? It'd be interesting that he can achieve it, but Zelevas can not.

That makes sense, good point. I just haven't encountered that part of the UE's questing. Maybe I've taken a different path or something? Unsure. Cool cool, though.

Sublustris wrote:

Horatio made it to Auriga on purpose. His intention was to find endless technology to perfect his gene pool to reach immortality and acquire proper cloning technology to build his own empire. He is the author DotE journal. He panipulated prisoners and crew of Success prison ship as a temporary bait and shield, and he reached his goal. I think there is at least a millenia between DotE and EL events, and millenia between EL and ES2, according to Vaulters main quest.

He went on purpose before the accident with the Success prison ship. However there is doubt if he is the author of the DotE journal. The first page of the journal speak about preparations for the flight and that means the author was probably among the crew and may have crashed with them. There is a theory that the author could be the crystal itself. 

I also wonder how any ship could make it onto Auriga first, if the Sucess was automatically destroyed.

Hi all,

Just chiming in to say that you have pretty much figured out the details. Horatio was indeed the author of the journal, and his notes indicate how useful he thinks the different characters might be in helping him loot the Endless labs and then get away. The crystal, if sentient, would not be worried about these trivial details!

As a trillionaire Mezari, he could influence the mission, the crew, etc. and have all the info he needs on things. Clearly, Auriga was a lot harder than he thought it would be, but Horatio is an exceedingly driven individual and he was always able to find useful helpers.

You can also assume that Horatio probably has the most advanced knowledge of biological sciences in the galaxy (after the Endless); though it's unfortunate that he puts his genius to that particular use...

-Slow

The one thing about Horatio's canon that kind of has me scratching my head is whether female Horatio are still a thing.  They existed in ES1, but do they exist in ES2?  Horatio society would probably discriminate against them even if there are female ones, just for their distance from the original one whom I'm pretty sure is male. Either way, if ES2 Horatio has his druthers, there probably wouldn't even be gender as a concept anyway. (as all beings of all genders would become him)

Sorry if this question had been answered before, but I had tried searching the forums for it.

After playing the game some of the quests feel like they need part 2.UE,Sophon and Horatio which just end without much resolution..Is Horatio headless now?

If you mean Prime, its his competitors who might be headless in the end.

dobyk wrote:

MidnightTea wrote:

Right, I just thought it was interesting that ES1 had female Horatio but ES2 didn't seem to.  (There was even one in ES1 who was convinced she was the true ideal model and wanted to become the new gold standard for the race)

My only guess is that they retconned this because Horatio is kind of scarier or more intense if you realize his willingness to roll over gender identity in his quest to impose perfection. But I didn't want to sound like an idiot if, say, the lady above (Perfectio Aeternus) was still in the game.

Sidenote: I would totally play Horatio if Perfectio Aeternus became an alternate skin or something. 

I fully support female trans Horatios in ES2. I'm actually ready to campaign for them. Also I like your idea, we need a Horatio Empress who wants to grab the throne. I think this is the one faction that can pull off awesome trans characters with amazing ease.

I fully endorse this as well.

I was actually quite disappointed that Horatio was made to perform 'masculinity' a lot more explicitly than he did in ES1, by losing the make-up and having a facial structure that is a lot less ambiguous than in ES1.  In ES1, Horatios in general were a lot more gender ambiguous.

I don't see someone like Horatio performing masculinity or feminity, but would perform whatever they deem 'beautiful' – i.e. gender identity and performance should have become completely obsolete in Horatio society.  

I mean someone like Salario Domus, who looks very masculine, is not at all what I picture Horatios to look like.

Fun thought: Horatio is the player in DOTE. He authored the journals, influenced the team loadout, and is canonically present but not a hero. He's shown healing the team in the comic (which the player can do directly) and a super-genius like Horatio would see the "overview" of the situation. He's smart enough to stay out of trouble, so that's why he's effectively invisible (he wouldn't consider himself a pawn on the board). The player also joins the team after the crash, not during.

Or was this totally the implication and I'm just stating the obvious?