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How politics actually work [updated]

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6 years ago
Sep 29, 2018, 10:45:19 PM

..why with 40% ecological party support I got an Industrial representative in this system? The representative is a Sophon. Official support went to ecologists.



Kinda ruined the game for me. My strategy with sophons relies heavily on pushing ecologists turn 20 and I usually get there without much struggle. I needed that 1 vote from Yersh to achieve my goals and I was pretty sure I'd get it, but nope.. I hate save scumming in those kinda games as well, so I guess I'll end the run here. I think smth is wrong with calculations for elections in this game, sometimes results are weird like in my example.

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 10:12:36 AM

This is the politics graph of the Sophons. Pacifist support gives an equal support to the Scientist party, whose votes go to the Industrialists. If you add up 40% ecologists and 13% pacifists, you're still under the total of 13% industrialists + 33% scientists + 13% pacifists, so I think this is working as intended?


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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 10:25:35 AM
Frogsquadron wrote:

This is the politics graph of the Sophons. Pacifist support gives an equal support to the Scientist party, whose votes go to the Industrialists.

Wait, why do scientist votes go to the industrialists rather than industrialists going to the scientists?


Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 11:14:46 AM

As I remember, sophon pops do not have any political trait involving industrialists. Why industrialists are being mentioned?


Moreover, those traits are giving additional links between events and political support. Scientists support (33%) is outcome of impact from events and populations' political traits. There is no reason to mess around with those values.

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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 11:25:09 AM

Right. My only guess is that there's a fair bit of swing in the polls to the actual results, so the scientists had a bad run, the industrialists had a much better one, and the scientists teamed up with the industrialists to beat the ecologists, so the representative is industrial. 


In the final tally for the leading parties in the senate, it looks tied between those three. I guess pacifist would team with either scientist or ecologist to put either one in charge. Given your dissapointment, I assume you ended up with a scientist leading the senate OP?

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 11:40:29 AM

This is the politics graph of the Sophons. Pacifist support gives an equal support to the Scientist party, whose votes go to the Industrialists. If you add up 40% ecologists and 13% pacifists, you're still under the total of 13% industrialists + 33% scientists + 13% pacifists, so I think this is working as intended?

Oh, I think I get what you are talking about - so the votes of adjacent parties pass checks in both directions and then the successor is chosen? But in that case shouldn't I get a scientist rather than industrialist in Yersh?


Dragar wrote:

Right. My only guess is that there's a fair bit of swing in the polls to the actual results, so the scientists had a bad run, the industrialists had a much better one, and the scientists teamed up with the industrialists to beat the ecologists, so the representative is industrial. In the final tally for the leading parties, it looks tied between those three. I guess pacifist could go either scientist or ecologist to put either one in charge. I assume you ended up with a scientist leading the senate OP?

It is even more conspiratorial, industrialists and pacifists teamed up to beat ecologists! Those bastards!
And yeah, scientists became my leading party, I think it has something to do with political leaning of the sophons, becasue you can see in the second picture that vote distribution is equal between those 3 parties in the end.

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 12:42:13 PM
mamarider wrote:

This is the politics graph of the Sophons. Pacifist support gives an equal support to the Scientist party, whose votes go to the Industrialists. If you add up 40% ecologists and 13% pacifists, you're still under the total of 13% industrialists + 33% scientists + 13% pacifists, so I think this is working as intended?

Oh, I think I get what you are talking about - so the votes of adjacent parties pass checks in both directions and then the successor is chosen? But in that case shouldn't I get a scientist rather than industrialist in Yersh?


Dragar wrote:

Right. My only guess is that there's a fair bit of swing in the polls to the actual results, so the scientists had a bad run, the industrialists had a much better one, and the scientists teamed up with the industrialists to beat the ecologists, so the representative is industrial. In the final tally for the leading parties, it looks tied between those three. I guess pacifist could go either scientist or ecologist to put either one in charge. I assume you ended up with a scientist leading the senate OP?

It is even more conspiratorial, industrialists and pacifists teamed up to beat ecologists! Those bastards!
And yeah, scientists became my leading party, I think it has something to do with political leaning of the sophons, becasue you can see in the second picture that vote distribution is equal between those 3 parties in the end.

Yeah, I'm not sure at all how the ties are broken. But industrialists will vote for scientists, but never ecologists, so maybe that factored into it. 

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 12:55:47 PM

Uuuh, yeah, actually they would have ended up voting for scientists. Brainfart on my end.

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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 1:32:55 PM

To sum this up, can we tell that boosting adjacent parties a little bit is important for boosting the party you need? I guess so.. Because otherwise they will team up against you and push some randoms into your senate..
Anyway, this micromanagement is only important first 40 turns. Later you can neither keep up with your people's opinions nor control them.. xD

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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 1:37:45 PM

I wouldn't know, I'm playing as the glorious Hissho empire, and our dictatorship suits us just fine, thank you.

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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 2:39:19 PM
mamarider wrote:

To sum this up, can we tell that boosting adjacent parties a little bit is important for boosting the party you need? I guess so.. Because otherwise they will team up against you and push some randoms into your senate..
Anyway, this micromanagement is only important first 40 turns. Later you can neither keep up with your people's opinions nor control them.. xD

Honestly, this is the sort of question we'd all love answered. 

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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 3:42:56 PM

Would you perhaps have a save from that turn, so we can look under the hood at what happened?

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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 4:06:01 PM

Fun fact, according to this screenshot Pacifists devided their votes between both parties, but in fact they only boosted scientists turning them into the main party?

Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 1, 2018, 7:46:08 PM

Can you hover over the pacifist symbol? It might say how many votes were allocated. 



Updated 6 years ago.
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6 years ago
Oct 4, 2018, 8:24:51 AM

Hey mamarider,


This election result is actually correct!

Here's how the elections and votes on systems work:


Each system first computes how many votes (aka representatives) it will have: most of the time, it's equal to the number of population.

Yersh has 1 population, which makes 1 vote.


Then, for each vote, it will randomly pick a politics to vote for, based on the support of the politics.

In Yersh's case, at the end of the turn Ecologists have 60% support, and Industrialists and Scientists have 20% each.


If there are several votes to cast at once, the ones that aren't randomly selected become slightly more likely to be selected next, so that there are more chances of getting a balanced system.

Because industrialists had 20% support on Yersh, they were randomly selected. Since there is only one population unit in the system, nothing else is picked.


I added some population and here's the result: the ecologists are picked next.


If you want more information about why this works this way, I'd suggest to check with a Game Designer on this issue (I believe Meedoc was the one who designed it... a few years ago).

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6 years ago
Oct 4, 2018, 11:06:27 AM

Thanks for the clarification! That seems very wacky and spicy, but it is kinda fun.

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6 years ago
Oct 5, 2018, 9:11:48 AM

MonAmiral, if there are (say) four representatives representing four different parties, how are the leading parties determined? 

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6 years ago
Oct 5, 2018, 2:04:27 PM
MonAmiral wrote:


Then, for each vote, it will randomly pick a politics to vote for, based on the support of the politics.

In Yersh's case, at the end of the turn Ecologists have 60% support, and Industrialists and Scientists have 20% each.

So what you are saying is that a system break down of
50% Military
10% Scientist
20% Ecologist

20% Industrialist

Population of (10)

Has a 50% chance of randomly picking Military as a representative first?

Why doesn't this system Guarantee that the majority support is Picked at a rate that properly represents the percentages? 

i.e. 5 of the 10 Reps in the System above should be Militarist, but what you are explaining is confusing me with all this "Random pick" talk


I want to understand this RNG system a bit more, but unfortunately not even your Wiki's, Website or outdated Guide (which never seem to be updated with patches) have useful information on this system.

Let's get this all worked out now so at least someone can help us understand this system.


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6 years ago
Oct 5, 2018, 2:40:29 PM
ItsAHoax wrote:
MonAmiral wrote:


Then, for each vote, it will randomly pick a politics to vote for, based on the support of the politics.

In Yersh's case, at the end of the turn Ecologists have 60% support, and Industrialists and Scientists have 20% each.

So what you are saying is that a system break down of
50% Military
10% Scientist
20% Ecologist

20% Industrialist

Population of (10)

Has a 50% chance of randomly picking Military as a representative first?

Why doesn't this system Guarantee that the majority support is Picked at a rate that properly represents the percentages? 

Because: 


a) It's got some elements of chance involved (i.e. the computer is rolling some dice).

b) "If there are several votes to cast at once, the ones that aren't randomly selected become slightly more likely to be selected next, so that there are more chances of getting a balanced system. " So after picking a militarist, the next representative being picked will have less than 50% chance of being picked. This ensures one system doesn't return (easily, commonly) tons of the same political representative, and keeps politics a bit more lively.

Updated 6 years ago.
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