Thanks in large part to its well written and impactful faction quest, the United Empire distinguishes itself from other human factions in 4x games that tend to be bland and generic.

As interesting as the faction is however, I am a bit hazy on its history and the timeline that lead to its establishment.  Furthermore, the United Empire from Endless Space 2 conflict in part with the UE in ES1 with regards to the political system and its history.

So I will attempt to reconcile ES2 and ES1 and draw out a timeline of what I think might have happened.

Any clarification from the writing team would be massively appreciated!

I. Colonization of Raia

Mezari settlers established themselves on Raia and create various polities on the planet that are autonomous and with no common form of government.  

It is unclear if aristocratic titles existed before the Empire or if they were a by-product of the Empire's creation (and indeed one of its pillars).  ES1 implies that these titles of counts and dukes existed before while ES2 implies that these were formed after Zelevas' ascension to power, which is contradicted by Lena Zelevas' biography stating that a certain Duke Anatov existed before the Empire and Maximilien Zelevas' rise to power. 

Maximilien Zelevas sometimes refers to the Empire as "The United Republics of Raia" in-game which indicates that Republics were a common form of government on Raia before the Empire was established.  These Republics may have been similar to the Italian city-states pre-unification that were nonetheless dominated by an aristocratic political class (kept in check by each other and the populace).  

I am of the opinion that there was a clearly defined elite aristocratic class with specific powerful families, with conflicting interests, that appeared to dominate political life across the planet even before the Empire.  Indeed, as is especially prominent in ES1, it appears that the nobility was also very much involved in the economic life of the planet as well with a strong corporatist vibe (I like to think of it as similar to various daimyo clans and dynasties in Japan transitioning to large corporations that exist till this day).  

What seems clear though is that Raia did not have a history or a traditional acceptance to authoritarian rule (unlike say the Hissho), given the dissatisfaction we see with Zelevas' "brutal leadership."

II. The Great Continental War

Eventually, the various republics and polities of Raia engaged in a war that become known as The Great Continental War that most likely spanned the majority of the planet.  Apparently the conflict was bloody and there was a real risk of the conflict climaxing in mutually assured destruction – it can be assumed that nuclear weapons were already developped by that stage or a similarly devastating WMD.

It is unclear how long that conflict lasted and who the main participants were.  

Maximilien Zelevas appears to have been a key player within what eventually became the dominant force at the end of the war: the Alliance of Nations.  Endless Space 1 puts Zelevas' origin as a CEO of some kind – given his aristocratic upbringing he must have been involved in politics and business probably from a young age and he could have been massive influence in that alliance.

Lena Zelevas, 15 years younger than her brother Maximilien, had an affair with a Duke Anatov who was an enemy of her brother – this strongly suggests that Maximilien was a key player in that war, important enough to have high-ranking nobility be his enemies.   With help from his friend Hadri Lenko, Maximilien Zelevas contributed to the Alliance of Nations winning the war, succeeded in having his enemy Duke Anatov killed, and perhaps even participated in the negotiations that avoided mutually assured destruction scenario.

III. The Alliance of Nations into the United Republics of Raia

The end of the war signalled the dominance and expansion of the Alliance of Nations that unified all Raian polities under a single political umbrella – judging from the name it appears to be closer to an (effective) United Nations model with local autonomy preserved but with the authority to maintain peace.

Sometime before the Empire, this Alliance of Nations became United Republics of Raia in what was probably a process of transforming the alliance into a more unified and federalized political community.   It is not clear how long that process lasted and how soon it started after the end of the war. 

We don't know if Maximilien Zelevas was involved at all in that process but if the unification of the alliance into the united republics and eventual rise of the Empire can be attributed to his "visionary leadership" (assuming it's not propaganda), then Zelevas must have surely contributed to that transformation in one way or the other.

We know very little about that period and it seems to have been a short one.

IV. Creation of the United Empire and Zelevas' ascension

We have conflicting information as to how the United Empire was formed:

-  ES2 and especially ES1 state that Maximilien Zelevas was not the first Emperor and that he got to the throne by overthrowing the previous Emperor with a green light given by the Sheredyn imperial guard

- However the ES2 wiki also says this: "the unification of diverse national entities into the Empire as it is today can be attributed to his visionary, if brutal, leadership." [I am assuming this is not propaganda but rather a statement of fact by the writer]

I can make sense of this ambguity by imagining the following scenario:

Maximilien Zelevas was instrumental in the dominance of the Alliance of Nations and possibly its transition to the United Republics.  He was also instrumental in pushing for the creation of the United Empire which finalized the process of unification and federalization that had started after the war.  He was not the first Emperor, but must have been in a powerful and influential position at the time, with links to the Sheredyn (possibly through his friend Hadri Lenko). 

For whatever reason, Maximilien decided that he is better off assuming the reins himself and thus led a bloodless coup against the first Emperor with help from the Sheredyn and several aristocratic families.   I am assuming this coup happened fairly early on in the United Empire's existence given that Maximilien had already ruled for a long time by the start of ES2. 

ES1 suggests that the Sheredyn became immensely powerful after the coup and established themselves as a semi-autonomous military and economic force within a largely decentralized Empire – ES2 seems to have retconned this to a large extent as the Sheredyn don't achieve that level of prominence until the UE faction quest's militarist path.  What is more likely to have happened in ES2 is for the Sheredyn to have become a stronger and more influential force but still within the control of Maximilien to a large extent (hence the subterfuge and sabotage under the sheets from his friend Hadri). 

V. The United Empire's political system

There is another difference between ES1 and ES2's versions of the United Empire.  The ES1 version had the United Empire be a highly decentralized, almost feudal structure, that was almost an empire in name-only with many competing semi-autonomous kingdoms ruled by the nobility.  It is quite similar to the empire in Dune which was highly decentralized and dominated by noble interests, with their own kingdoms and armies actively fighting each other.  ES1's Zelevas appears more like a figurehead much like the Padishah Emperor rather than an actual emperor of a centralized regime.

ES2 seems to have tonned this decentralization down a bit.  The United Empire now appears to have a strong central government under Maximilien's control, however with a degree of decentralization to push and promote expansion into space – the UE government and ministries work actively with the aristocracy that supported Zelevas to help them organize their own expansions.  It seems to be a very corporatist model whereby the government will support various corporations and give them leeway as long as they adhere to the bottom line: the United Empire is not to be contested politically. 

This push and pull of centralization and decentralization is reflected in the game: 

- On one hand the United Empire is a Star Federation and not a dictatorship indicating a degree of decentralization with various interests actively competing against one another politically and economically as long as they don't contest the political hegemony of the UE government.

- On the other hand, Maximilien Zelevas and his government is able to influence / coerce various elements in United Empire society including economic development, military construction and even research – I am of course referring to the Emperor's Will ability.  It seems that Zelevas is in the position to use his influence on the various corporations / aristocratic factions to get what he wants done (including constructing dozens of ships in one turn if he feels like it...)

Furthermore, the faction quest of the UE clearly shows that Zelevas is not just a figurehead but is in control to a large extent of his Empire.  An Empire that has no qualms instituting "re-education camps" 

The best way I can describe the United Empire's economy is as a corporatist system, with a tight marriage between political and economic interests without it becoming a centralized state-controlled economy.   The United Empire seems to exert some control over the economy through influence rather than through blunt coersion – this is probably made easier with economic interests incarnated in the aristocracy controlling coporations also having positions of government.   It is a system not to dissimilar from the siloviki  (power agents) centric regime in the Kremlin nowadays or even better, China (which has an interesting long history of push and pull between decentralization and centralization), but with an added element of semi-feudalism.

Furthermore, the United Empire appears to be able to establish itself as a cultural powerhouse in the galaxy thanks to its large influence output.  It is one of the best factions to expand culturally, which does contrast it a bit with the otherwise industrial and military machine the Empire sometimes appears to be.

In addition, the United Empire has a hint of totalitarianism with the very "leader-centric" propaganda, "re-education camps" and the Zelevas Incarnate improvement that has a Zelevas hologram following you around and making sure you work hard...[but I would argue that on the whole, the United Empire is not totalitarian in the traditional sense of the term].

Another interesting element to look at is how the United Empire handles / would handle aliens in what would become a multi-species empire:

- The prologue clearly had a very 19th imperialist vibe to it that doesn't seem to lead to the integration of aliens as nothing more than labourers, if they are not killed en masse [propaganda casually displaying mass murder doesn't endear us very much but reveals a potentially very callous and speciest society].   

- On the other hand, the Yuusho appear to be recent members of the United Empire society and we have no evidence on how they are treated whether it be positive or negative.  Interestingly, they are militarists politically, which aligns them with the Sheredyn that are the more authoritarian faction in the Empire – this seems to indicate that at least for the Yuusho, they are possibly well integrated into the Empire. 

The combination of these various elements ends up looking like an odd mix that can't be categorized easily using political terms we use based on our history – it has hints of statism, fascism, corporatism, ultra-capitalism but also 19th century imperialism, federalism, some nostalgia to republicanism, semi-feudal structures and an ambivalent view on "xenos" and multi-culturalism.  

"The Empire embraces all those who share its ideals" says Zelevas, but to pinpoint what those "ideals" are exactly is a bit of a challenge.

VI. The possible futures of the United Empire

As the faction quest shows, Maximilien Zelevas' rule is not uncontested from either the political elite close to him (including his sister and friend/bodyguard) or the populace.  What is fascinating is that Maximilien Zelevas actually cares about what his people think of him, to the point where he goes in disguise to see what the sicophants around him don't tell him.  The revelation that he is not as respected and loved as he thought struck deeply, in addition to finding out that members of his own family and entourage conspire against him.

This leads to an interesting branching out of the United Empire into multiple possibilities:

-  The United Empire remains largely the same, however Maximilien Zelevas strives to ensure some sort of redistribution of wealth and dealing with poverty through the building of a wonder [unsure how it is supposed to help the poor, but apparently it does].  Said wonder also provides bonuses the more population types you have in the Empire, which indicates that by that point, the United Empire becomes a multi-cutural and seemingly tolerant polity (as long as the government is uncontested) – indeed the United Empire is one of the best contenders for expanding culturally and not just militarily thanks to its massive influence.   Zelevas' rule appears more accepted not through coercion alone but through a revitalized patriotic pride. 

- The United Empire becomes militaristic and more authoritarian, with the Sheredyn gaining prominence and becoming practically a political police.  Zelevas' rule is uncontested but through fear rather than love.  The Sheredyn ending however does not necessarily lead to xenophobia and the Empire can remain multi-cultural.

- Or the United Empire revisits its ancient Mezari roots and focuses itself on scientific discovery, potentially turning into some sort of technocracy of sorts.  However, it appears that Zelevas decides that using technology to brainwash his people into loving him is a good idea, pushing the United Empire in a clear totalitarian path.

The inherent contradictions within the United Empire highlighted above ultimately play out and, with help and roleplaying / decisions from the player, are resolved.  The United Empire, more than any other faction, potentially ends up as a radically different society and political system than what you start out with.  It can become a democratic or republican diplomatic Empire that is quasi-benevolent, or a totalitarian technocracy, or a militaristic pseudo-fascist system.  Or it can become a democratic militarist system or a one-man rule conservative dictatorship.

Regardless of these choices and how we decide how the United Empires evolves to be like, Maximilien Zelevas is still at the helm and eventually thinks "God Emperor" sounds cool. 

Please let me know if you agree with this timeline I propose and if I have missed anything.  The UE is difficult to piece together, but as a faction, it is curiously one of the most interesting ones despite being a "human" faction.  

I could be mistaken but I believe the Vaulters and the UE were once the same people. The lore of Endless Legend seems to suggest that the Mezari (the original racial name for the Vaulters) were the people of the United Empire and they crashed on Auriga, losing their identity over the generations and becoming the "Vaulters" who then ascended to space travel again in search of a new home because Auriga was "destroyed." 

Just throwing that in there for you, not sure if it's something you cared to include. 

Valadeus wrote:

I could be mistaken but I believe the Vaulters and the UE were once the same people. The lore of Endless Legend seems to suggest that the Mezari (the original racial name for the Vaulters) were the people of the United Empire and they crashed on Auriga, losing their identity over the generations and becoming the "Vaulters" who then ascended to space travel again in search of a new home because Auriga was "destroyed." 

Just throwing that in there for you, not sure if it's something you cared to include. 

My reading of what is stated in the vaulters quest stuff, (though i haven't compeltly finished the questline, yet), is that both the UE and Vaulters started on Mezari, but whilst the UE colonisation atempt went off without a hitch, the vaulters crash landed on Auriga and we know the tale from there. Effectivlly the split off from each other back on their homeworld of Mezari.

That's my interpretation as well, thank you for expounding on it a little more than I did. 

Horatio was also a Mezari multi-trillionare who used Endless tech to extend his lifespan and create a race of clones.

HuskOfKnowledge wrote:

EL and ES2 make it eg unclear about OPBot's origins

Argossy - is this the ship of DoTE? I think not, given its hightech unique technology, capabilities and design - but IIRC OPbot is stated in ES2 to come from Argossy, not DoTE primitive, Imperial ship? This seems erroneous.

Its been a while since I read up on Vaulter lore but I think this is what happened.

 OPBot is a Mezari medical droid that was on the Mezari prision ship "Sucess" (possibly as a Prisoner). When the ship was shot down he got lost in the labs of the Endless, and shut down when he ran out of power.  Hundreds(or thousands) of years later he found by Zolya and reactivated. The Vaulters orginated from the Argosy, a Mezari colony ship that was also shot down by Aurgia's defenses.  

This is a rough verison of what happened some bits may be a off, take with grain of salt.

Slowhands wrote:

Ooookay... There is a lot to talk about here ^^  Overall, your ability to read, parse, and infer is pretty awesome!

Thank you! ^^

It's your work and the other writers that inspires people like me to daydream instead of work (don't tell anyone...)

When we started ES2, one of the first factions we knew would be coming back was the UE, so we looked at the ES1 lore and thought about where to take it. In fact, we did a first complete version of the UE comic that told the tale you mention in "II. The Great Continental War". Lena and Anatov were key characters in the comic, as well as MZ and Hadri. We ultimately decided to go back and do a completely different comic in a completely different style, but when StoryEngine was working on the ideas for the faction quest he thought that this piece of lore would be a great thing upon which to build the story. And he was right!

I would have loved to see a comic covering that period, or a short story.  At some point I even considered writing a fanfic from Lena's perspective but alas I am no writer and don't have enough free time.

So while the idea of the Dune-like empire is there, at the start of ES2 it is in its infancy. 

To me, based on the way the Empire is portrayed, its faction quest and conclusion(s) and outro, the United Empire isn't likely to evolve to become a Dune-like empire at least not like its ES1 itteration, especially if Zelevas succeeds in becoming God Emperor.  All endings point to Zelevas accumulating even more power and control than ever before.

Personally, I see the United Empire has having a perpetual push and pull between centralization and decentralization without shifting to one end of the spectrum over the other, even with a God Emperor.

The nations in the Alliance of Nations, however, do include political entities that are running moons, stations, and other planets in the solar system that contains Raia. These rulers are the families that run these different "Nations", and eventually become the dukes and duchesses of the United Empire. Duke Anatov was one of them, and he decided to defy Zelevas's dreams of empire--whatever the cost.

Formally, of course, Zelevas's creation of the United Republics of Raia from the ashes of the Alliance of Nations was the birth of the United Empire as a political (and military) force.

Ah so I had understood things slightly wrong.  I had thought that Duke Anatov was against the Alliance of Nations and was killed when the Alliance was victorious.  Now it seems that both him and Zelevas were major figures in the Alliance of Nations and at the end of the war, Zelevas transformed the Alliance into a centralized government against the wishes of some that wanted to maintain autonomy / independence. 

Unless I misunderstood you, the United Republic of Raia IS the United Empire and not a predecessor as I had thought.  I thought that the United Republics was a stepping stone before the United Empire was established officially.  I suppose it makes sense given that in-game, Zelevas sometimes refers to the empire as the United Republics.

Two questions:

1. Since the empire was a product of Zelevas' dream, was he the first emperor?  In ES1, he isn't and ES2 seems to imply he isn't when the wiki describes him as "the current emperor" (which implies there was someone before him) but also attributes the vision of a united empire to him.  Unless the idea of a coup from ES1 transformed into the Zelevas vs Anatov conflict which marked Maximilien's rise to power (with help from Hadri and the Sheredyn)?

2. If Zelevas achieves immortality, how likely is he to succeed in maintaining and empowering his rule?  While the faction quest does end up with Zelevas consolidating his position one way or the other (respect, fear or brainwashing), I find it hard to believe that the people and political elite would be very keen on a God Emperor, when they were already tired of the idea of one man ruling for decades without a named successor.  How much of an uphill battle would it be for our favorite emperor?

Hooray for lore discussions!

I should update my human lore chart at some point now...

Slowhands wrote:

Ooookay... There is a lot to talk about here ^^  Overall, your ability to read, parse, and infer is pretty awesome!

You hit the nail on the head (especially for ES1) with "...It is quite similar to the empire in Dune..." That was definitely one of our key inspirations for the first iteration of the faction, with a healthy dose of the British East India Company: Powerful families running local systems like fiefdoms, with a feudal allegiance to a central emperor who could (theoretically) give and take lands and titles. The concept in ES1 was to take this established galactic empire as a given, even though you start with only one planet (yeah, whatever!). The idea is for the RP'ers to imagine appointing dukes to run the systems they colonize or conquer, extending the royal grasp...

There was some evolution between the images of the UE in ES1 vs ES2; it was a different game, a bigger writing team, and a grander scope.

When we started ES2, one of the first factions we knew would be coming back was the UE, so we looked at the ES1 lore and thought about where to take it. In fact, we did a first complete version of the UE comic that told the tale you mention in "II. The Great Continental War". Lena and Anatov were key characters in the comic, as well as MZ and Hadri. We ultimately decided to go back and do a completely different comic in a completely different style, but when StoryEngine was working on the ideas for the faction quest he thought that this piece of lore would be a great thing upon which to build the story. And he was right!

So while the idea of the Dune-like empire is there, at the start of ES2 it is in its infancy. 

The nations in the Alliance of Nations, however, do include political entities that are running moons, stations, and other planets in the solar system that contains Raia. These rulers are the families that run these different "Nations", and eventually become the dukes and duchesses of the United Empire. Duke Anatov was one of them, and he decided to defy Zelevas's dreams of empire--whatever the cost.

Formally, of course, Zelevas's creation of the United Republics of Raia from the ashes of the Alliance of Nations was the birth of the United Empire as a political (and military) force.

As far as the Mezari roots go, it is something like this:
- Mezan is the point of origin of all the 'human' major factions in the game ( UE, Sheredyn, Pilgrim, Vaulter, Horatio ).
- There were successive waves of migration from Mezan, all for various reasons like expansion, exploration, war, invasion, etc.
- One of the earlier waves ended up on Auriga and became the Vaulters
- A later wave fared better than the Vaulters; they found a verdant planet (Raia) and founded what would become the United Empire in that system.

So humans in Endless space are actually descendants of the Earth people?

There is no Earth in Endless Galaxy. Think of Star Wars.

Ashbery76 wrote:

Sublustris wrote:

There is no Earth in Endless Galaxy. Think of Star Wars.

They why do they say in a galaxy far away? Earth is there dude.

To emphesize Earth isn't there. Humans in both franchises have no connection to Earth, just like in most fantasy setting.

Okay, I'll answer the easy bits first :) 

- Officially, the Endless Universe is what is referrred to as a "Second World" setting; Earth does not exist in the timeline. Star Wars does not have Earth (I'm pretty sure, at least in official canon), nor did Dune at the beginning (though I think it evolved over time to include it).

- The Mezari civilization has been around a long time (though not as old as the Endless), but its history is full of erratic ups and downs (civil war, invasion, over-expansion, etc.) so it never gained the power of the Endless. 

- Raia was therefore settled long before the ES2 era, though the settlers lost the ability to build FTL ships and engines. This was more for reasons of resources and engineering than for societal collapse. After all, it takes incredible effort in terms of industrial output and mineral excavation to fabricate FTL systems, even if you have the blueprints. It's like fusion power--we have had the science for a long time, but are having trouble figuring out the materials and energy engineering. 

- The Hissho have nostrils, not noses. That would be an error on my part :) 

- As Galathad said, the Vaulters came on the Argosy, at a similar time to the Success. Rediscovering the Argosy and escaping the dying planet becomes the Vaulters' goal in EL. They discovered Opbot, a survivor of the Success, at some point in their history.

- For the UE government, I think the likelihood of a Dune-like partially decentralized political structure would be necessary, simply due to the distances and the need to constantly react to competing and contrasting local situations (even with magical instantaneous communications :) )

By the way, the UE faction quest was StoryEngine's baby; he gets all the kudos for that!

-Slow

Slowhands wrote:

Okay, I'll answer the easy bits first :) 

- Officially, the Endless Universe is what is referrred to as a "Second World" setting; Earth does not exist in the timeline. Star Wars does not have Earth (I'm pretty sure, at least in official canon), nor did Dune at the beginning (though I think it evolved over time to include it).

Well, not exactly.  There is an indirect connection.  Bear with me here:

In Phantom Menace there is a scene taking place in the Senate where you can see some E.T. guys sitting in one of the pods at the lower corner of the screen.  So, E.T. people do exist in the SW universe.  

In the movie E.T. there are two scenes referring to the SW universe.  In one of them the little boy shows E.T. his toys and names them Boba Fett, Greedo and Lando.  Also there is a TIE fighter in his room.  Also later on when they go trick-or-treating E.T. sees a child dressed as Yoda, which prompts him to greet the kid and yell "home!"  

Since the movie E.T. takes place on Earth...  there IS actually a connection, albeit quite indirect, between the two movies, placing Earth into the SW universe.

Or, children in E.T. movie like Star Wars just like any children in real world do, and in SW there were just some generic aliens, resembling E.T.'s race. That's not a connection, that's an intentional Easter Egg at best.

Sublustris wrote:

Or, children in E.T. movie like Star Wars just like any children in real world do, and in SW there were just some generic aliens, resembling E.T.'s race. That's not a connection, that's an intentional Easter Egg at best.

You are absolutely right.  Even George Lucas had said that placing E.T. race into the Senate was a nod to Spielberg's Yoda scene in the E.T. movie.  That makes it a mutually exclusive Easter egg.  Either that, or the Star Wars saga is also quite popular back at E.T.'s home planet :)

Still, when push comes to shove... *grin*

gkaytaz wrote:

...

In Phantom Menace there is a scene taking place in the Senate where you can see some E.T. guys sitting in one of the pods at the lower corner of the screen.  So, E.T. people do exist in the SW universe.  

In the movie E.T. there are two scenes referring to the SW universe.  In one of them the little boy shows E.T. his toys and names them Boba Fett, Greedo and Lando.  Also there is a TIE fighter in his room.  Also later on when they go trick-or-treating E.T. sees a child dressed as Yoda, which prompts him to greet the kid and yell "home!"  

...

I see your argument, but... I worked on a Might & Magic game with Nival; they put a tank from one of their Blitzkrieg games in the background of one of the maps. That certainly doesn't mean that the universe of Ashan had anything to do with Earth!

And, regardless, Earth is still officially not part of the Endless Universe ^^

-Slow

Kuma wrote:

Slowhands wrote:

- As Galathad said, the Vaulters came on the Argosy, at a similar time to the Success. Rediscovering the Argosy and escaping the dying planet becomes the Vaulters' goal in EL. They discovered Opbot, a survivor of the Success, at some point in their history.

In ES2, during the Vaulters' main quest, one of the Academy hero states that their ancestors came on the Success. Here I quote the in-game files :

 

Yes, there is that ^^ 

On the one hand, there would certainly have been some intermarriage between the Success and the Argosy survivors; they are all from the same stock, after all. But it is an exaggeration (and done for narrative purposes in the quest story) to accuse the Vaulter faction of being descendants of criminals. Even if they were only descendents of the Success survivors, they would still be descendents of crew and guards as well!

The main reason that we separated the two and say "the Vaulters came from Argosy" is that the Success is really a Dungeon of the Endless ship, and was created for a game with a much more humorous / ridiculous story and tone. I didn't really want the more serious games (EL and ES) connected with that lore. In addition, when the time came to leave Auriga, I thought it would be too confusing to be talking about these different ships that arrived and who came from where and all of that... though maybe, in the end, the only person who ended up getting confused was me.

However, to simplify, the Vaulters came *primarily* from the Argosy, and Opbot came from the Success.

The sequence of Success-then-Argosy is pretty much what we have been thinking, and the discovery of the remains of the Argosy and the rest of the story on Auriga are as @Kuma describes it.

-Slow