Geez do these guy actually play their games.Fix the A.I.

[quote]I wonder how do you suppose to wage war as Hissho when enemy have 10 systems and you have 2.

Discuss.[/quote]

Hissho heroes can train extra behemoth limit perc. Once you have 5 FIDSI behemots in your forgeworld you have won and that happen around turn 80 in MP normal speed(Unless umbral choire is in the game :p) . At least that how it worked in previous patch. 

Ptirodaktill wrote:

[quote]I wonder how do you suppose to wage war as Hissho when enemy have 10 systems and you have 2.

Discuss.[/quote]

Hissho heroes can train extra behemoth limit perc. Once you have 5 FIDSI behemots in your forgeworld you have won and that happen around turn 80 in MP normal speed(Unless umbral choire is in the game :p) . At least that how it worked in previous patch. 

 

The problem I have in multiplayer games is getting to turn eighty before being slaughtered by another player wh orealizes what I am trying to do.

Just to clarify, is it five behemoths with FIDS modules, or few behemoths with 5 FIDS modules each?

Y'all forgetting how amazing "Ancestral Reverence" + "Hatched at Home" is. +25% FIDSI on all systems in addition to slating resources to go home. This makes the percentile malus for overcolonization pretty meaningless. Your home system will outproduce Riftborn easy peasy and you will soon enough push out a carrier a turn. 

Peace will bring dishonor to your family. 

War is honor.

There is only war.

More like 28 CP fleets per turn.  Or even more if you find a nice 5 planet system as your forgeworld. IRC, i`ve seen 120k production per turn from these guys.

Also playing vertically works surprisingly well (turn 33 scientific victory well)

 I played them for the first time this weekend, and I honestly thought I was doing something terribly wrong as I usually dont like warlike factions, but I understand now that there are some meta issues with the Hissho...

There are Hissho rollback mod and obliterator rollback mod on the steam workshop. Just use them.

I'm enjoying the changes so far.

I suggest rushing the technology for "vacate systems" I think it is the same one for buying heroes from the market, might be right next to that one.

I don't plan on ever using colonizer ships to set up outposts, exceptions can be made if you find a specific resource you want to harvest. Remember that leaving them as outposts does not penalize you, and lets you harvest some resources that way.

I play them primarily as military, go for supremacy or elimination victories.
When invading there are now actually reasons to use options other than occupy.

Only use occupy if you are below your colonization limit, (or you have the vacate system technology and the target system is better than one you own), or if it is a minorfaction and you want the trait.
If you are low on dust. Or just not in a hurry, use the pillage option first, then immediately invade again the following turn to use the raze option. (I have not changed governments yet, does raze have a cost/disadvantage if you are a different government type?)
I only keep a system if it is a home system, or I am not overcolonized.

The military side of the questline is what I normally go for, and it gives you an easy, no-brainer approach to ship setups. Against a human it can be countered pretty easily. The quest rewards, hissho heroes, and overall playstyle push you toward an Energy/Crit setup, countered by the "unlucky weapons" tactic.

I am currently trying to go forthe religious path (did it a long time ago, dislike the behemoth tactic from religious side)because I want to focus more on these mining behemoths everbody likes.

Honestly a bit underwhelmed, if you don't exploit the bugs mining probes seem unimpressive. But I like that it is an alternative playstyle to "colonize everything".

I want to be forced, and rewarded, for making fleets and/or behemoths early on.

So far the biggest annoyance is that behemoths don't have manpower for invasions. Hissho early aggression still has trouble capturing/razing systems unless you arrive as an outpost becomes a colony (free invasion). And I still don't understand what constitutes a "fair fight" as far as kei is concerned, is it just ship numbers? just CP? or related to the visible military strength? which seems to invalidate the kei actions that buff up your visible strength.

I'm also trying to find more information about behemoth kei radii, does it do anything else, besides bonus kei, and letting you extend the kei ability effects to multiple systems/fleets? The multiple systems aspect is useless now that we are focused on fewer systems.

koxsos wrote:

So I went and played hissho (to a very bitter end of navigating a large galaxy with 18 movement fleets), the cummulative ship cost reduction combined with unique damage bonuses still basically guarantees you win in "even" fleet matchups (and you have twice the fleets, cause they cost half as much).

The fact you start the game with +50% industry (and 25% to other fidsi) and can easily maintain the buff throughout the game by.. "playing vertically" while ignoring approval is still strong enough on it's own.

Federation nerf does not hurt too much either, you just have to match colors now, I am sure you can handle it, but it might make you sway from your usual military + indy setup to opt for the secondary party you have most heroes in, or just ignore it and play with some malus. But stable cap of 10 systems is well within reach.
Federation thus still remains the go to government, only cravers got kneecapped, cause they can't do it like everyone else and can no longer abuse saints and sinners for their usual shenanigans.

Given all that I would still probably give hissho like an extra one or two colonization cap scaling for map size, holding 12 home systems with 10 systems over overcolonization cap "as designed" is slightly ridiculous. But then so is +400% stacked fidsi bonus on home (but everyone can do that!).

Otherwise they really are surprisingly fine, you can reliably farm kei with +10 victories through repetitive subduing and get more than enough from random quests too.

I would still suggest for a casual player to ignore mining probes, maybe except for the quest, because you can just mine the planet by having an indefinite outpost there.

Here, have some free cancer in a form of video:

The player in this video had titanium and hyperium on his home system and 2 minor civs right next to him to make hissho quest by obtaining minor civ. He also used titanium for the way of the obsidian eagle on turn 2 and hacked minor civ for economical bonuses. I like how he foaming at the mouth about HISSHO OVERPOWERED and not even realizing how vodyani or any other civs with such incredible lucky start can propell itself.

ShadySands wrote:

The player in this video had titanium and hyperium on his home system and 2 minor civs right next to him to make hissho quest by obtaining minor civ. He also used titanium for the way of the obsidian eagle on turn 2 and hacked minor civ for economical bonuses.

 I like how he foaming at the mouth about HISSHO OVERPOWERED and not even realizing how vodyani or any other civs with such incredible lucky start can propell itself.

Ah yes, *foaming at the mouth*. Thank you for your kind words of feedback.
Also thank you for the "shut the f up about Muh Hissho bonuses" bit on the youtube I am glad I found an actual response here so I can adress arguments and not just random outcries
But yes, entire video made without abusing resource recoverers pointing out hissho are still playable without going "turn 36-50 science victory no matter what happens" strat. I can see how you can blame good starting conditions for that.
But I would say such arguments are misplaced in racial balancing as you yourself state "any race could perform fantastic under such conditions" (ommiting the obvious +50% industry and 25% FIDSI right there.)
On the topic of starting conditions, which faction in particular would you say is most immune to negative approval from starting system planets variety? Would you consider that an advantage? 

Finally may I interest you in posting starting position balancing in a relevant topic outside faction balancing?

Can't fix

CaptainCobbs wrote:

Can't fix

What do you mean?

I looked at the code, nothing I could see lead me to believe it was fixable with modding, its a hardcoded issue.