Clarste wrote:

I'm not sure I like this poll because the options are too limited. While I do like the ES1 system better than what we have now, I think there's room for improvement in the Era system, and we shouldn't just give up on it so fast. I think it would be more useful to focus on the pros and cons of both systems and try to find a new one that has the best of both worlds, if possible.

Thank you for your response! Completely aware of the shortcomings of only three flavours to choose from in this poll, it is primarily meant to get a rough feeling for the way players respond to the Science Section of ES2. It surely does harvest some good reactions, and as such it could function as possible input to the devs. Personally I would love to have a best of both worlds, if the era systematic could be as intuitive and strategic as the tech tree from ES1, packed within beautiful designs from the skillful artists at Amplitude.

Both systems had their pros and cons:

• The tree gave you way more freedom but even there you had to research techs you didn't want/need just to get to those branches you needed. 
• The box system "forces" players to pick from different sections to get to the next era (in ES1 it was easy to get lost in one of the four trees and forget about the others)... so I guess it's friendlier to new players now.

I'm fine with both systems what I REALLY miss though are the faction unique techs. Apart from the ships and very few (quest rewarded) techs, the boxes are exactly the same for all factions. Again: easier to understand but less variety.

There are pros and cons when it comes to the way technologies are discovered and researched in the Endless Space games. Somewhere the top-down game design will meet the bottom-up community preferences. With this poll I would like to give insight into numbers when it comes to community preferences, in this case considering the way the Research systematics are implemented in ES2. Thanks for participating - OnyxCarp

@Clarste 

Clarste wrote:

Just for the record, I suggested a hybrid system in another thread, based on the circular design of the hero skill tree:

Basically we could have tech eras and line connections for related techs. I also suggested being able to advance one extra tier in a specific field by focusing on that area (since being able to go deep in one field is the purpose of the tech web), but the details are obviously loose at this level of speculation.

Wow... that was exactly what i wanted to post right now^^... advance each era in the different fields and take the better looking hero progression tree. It makes more sense as well to research e.g. lasers 2 before lasers 2... Good grafic btw mine just looked like this :-)

 (this is why i'm no grafic designer LOL)

I don't know why but the Era system for techs doesn't feel right for a sci-fi game in my mind. If it seems good and appropriate for Endless Legend, I fail to like it in ES2. And I think the above suggestions of having techs being manipulated like hero skills sound good to me. 

I like the eras system because it tells a story of the ES universe as it advances along a certain path.

And that's what I feel a tech tree should represent, a story.

I do not agree that I had to research much 'unwanted tech' research in endless space 1.

Because if you research an 'unwanted tech'  in a research tree, at least you know why you are doing this, you have a goal in mind.

In the Era approach, I feel I have to research more ' unwanted techs'.

This is because we need an arbitrary number of them to be suddenly better in everything... 

At least in the tech tree, it would be logical why your race is an expert in weaponry or ecology, depending on the path you follow.

As for the Story argument, making me research 4 unwanted techs to fill my basket really doesn't help for my story-line.

I'm personally a big fan of the Era system, it's a refreshing alternative to way Civilization does things, which feels pretty brainless to me.

I'm not a HUGE fan of Paradox's research style, which is almost entirely passive +% bonuses, but allowing parallel research in each bucket might alleviate the problem where military techs are often bad for you long-term rather than something that enables you to build up more effectively. Such a system would require several more military techs per era, perhaps splitting the resource-based techs or adding non-resource consuming bonuses?

I'm dividing

on one side I liked the idea of technological canvas although it is not attractive and that quite disorienting  On the other hand, I do not think the system they use is bad, just that the technology over ages are poorly distributed (to make peace with the other species has the second era, for example)  both are more or less good but I think a simple reorganization of the available technology through the ages solve some problem

RageMcGeezaks wrote:

I do not agree that I had to research much 'unwanted tech' research in endless space 1.

Because if you research an 'unwanted tech'  in a research tree, at least you know why you are doing this, you have a goal in mind.

In the Era approach, I feel I have to research more ' unwanted techs'.

This is because we need an arbitrary number of them to be suddenly better in everything... 

At least in the tech tree, it would be logical why your race is an expert in weaponry or ecology, depending on the path you follow.

As for the Story argument, making me research 4 unwanted techs to fill my basket really doesn't help for my story-line.

for the Era system to work properly it should always be a matter of painful choices and things you left out but that you did want.  if you are getting a few techs in an era and then go 'welp im done', that's a problem.

why do you think you do not want a lot of the techs?

Suprised at the results. The new tech system feels worse in literally every way to me compared to the old Endless Space system. Didn't care for it in Endless Legend, absolutely hate it in Endless Space 2.

I for once vastly prefer the era system, much more adaptative, than the old tech tree. However, I do feel like there is currently a lack of dependecies. The hero-like tech trees may be an answer, yet I have an other in mind :

- I would go with new eras being unlocked a bit earlier, but with researches in those era to a vastly increased cost.

- There could be a decreasing cost (analog to what is currently in place for sophons) based on the number of techs researched in the previous eras for the same family of techs.

That way, even if you went all science, colonization and production for lets say era 1, and suddenly need some defences against upcoming cravers, you can get some era 2 military techs (keeping the adaptability of current system) but at a vastly improved cost compared to an empire solely focused on guns since era 1.

UI-wise, such a system seems easy to implement, with the discount being highlighted at the center of the 4 boxes (where the tony symbols currently are ?)

Jihem wrote:

I for once vastly prefer the era system, much more adaptative, than the old tech tree. However, I do feel like there is currently a lack of dependecies. The hero-like tech trees may be an answer, yet I have an other in mind :

- I would go with new eras being unlocked a bit earlier, but with researches in those era to a vastly increased cost.

- There could be a decreasing cost (analog to what is currently in place for sophons) based on the number of techs researched in the previous eras for the same family of techs.

That way, even if you went all science, colonization and production for lets say era 1, and suddenly need some defences against upcoming cravers, you can get some era 2 military techs (keeping the adaptability of current system) but at a vastly improved cost compared to an empire solely focused on guns since era 1.

UI-wise, such a system seems easy to implement, with the discount being highlighted at the center of the 4 boxes (where the tony symbols currently are ?)

Not trying to start an argument or anything, but legitimately curious: What about the new system feels more adaptive to you?

For me personally, it feels the exact opposite. With the old tech tree, if I wanted to do something specific, say, rush to Barren Colonization, I could do that while making sacrifices elsewhere. With the new system though, it doesn't matter what I want, I'm still going to have to go through Era I techs first, then Era II, then finally pick it in Era III. The adaptation and decision-making feels a lot more coerced to me.

For what it's worth, dependencies would solve some of my issues with the current tech system (Such as certain techs being a complete and total waste to pick, and a lack of focus) but would still leave some of my other issues unresolved (Impossible to chase specific goals, coercion to take unwanted techs).