plutar wrote:

Hah for once, I agree with you lo_fabre! 

Flak should not distiguish between flak targets, IE fighters/bombers/missles/swarmmissles/energy fighters, 

Flak should not be 100% accurate, its a defense, its AOE damage on incomming projectiles. 

Can't wait to see these in action, is this a christmas present? a new years present? should I plan a party for valentines day? lol 

Oh. Didn't thoght about flak & bombers. Of course flak sholdn't distinguish them from othet incoming projectiles. This cam make interesting to mix attackers with swarm missiles and coordinators with bombers, which IMO should have more HP than missiles, hit harder, but fewer in numbers than normal missiles (like they're now).

This will for sure distract the flak and let bombers work. More reason to have fighters.

Alright, thanks for your feedback everyone! :)

@Slashman

Soon, soon! :D

@plutar

Always plan parties! Why go only for christmas, new years, or valentines? Do the three! :D

Hah for once, I agree with you lo_fabre! 

Flak should not distiguish between flak targets, IE fighters/bombers/missles/swarmmissles/energy fighters, 

Flak should not be 100% accurate, its a defense, its AOE damage on incomming projectiles. 

Can't wait to see these in action, is this a christmas present? a new years present? should I plan a party for valentines day? lol 

Hi,

Lots of new stuff and posts here, so have to read a bit in diagonal. Few thoghts about this:

New tech tree distribution:

As I stated before I was more of the black market option wich could allow also things like buying pirate ships blueprints, but respect Amp choice and understand they may be not fond with black market.

With the pass of white modules to stages, IMO the military tree is not dumped, and also give you a reson to research T1 tech from this quadrant early.

They have to find a solution to the overcrowded problem, and probably it is a good way to do so. Also IMO it worked well on EL.

Missile balance:

Wont go into numbers, but to make white modules balance compatible with actual new stuff, IMO a kinetic module should counter about 90% of missiles of a module of same tier (the white one, of course not talking about resource modules), but the remaining ones do hard damge if you haven't any armor. In same way, this kinetic module should be able to shot down about 50-60% of same tier swarm missile modules, but missiles that passed do less or at much same damage as a normal missile module.

Balancing this that way, and making flak unable to distinguish between swarm and normal missiles, will encourage tactics like the mix suggested by @Slashman. Also will offer some alternative to the strategic modules, which are by far better than white ones (provided you have enough resources).

Give us the new stuff!!!

@YertyL

Yes, we are aware that might be a problem. We'll monitor how that is perceived and used and adjust accordingly :)

Dragar wrote:

Some of those white weapons (I recall now) are faction specific (e.g. Imperial Slugs). I hope they don't get lost in the move; I liked that additional flavour and diversity!

Don't worry, they are in the stage unlocks and are not lost! I'm a fan of Imperial Slugs too ;)

lilyophelia wrote:

Wow, just read through the entire thread. So many cool things coming and such a neat design for most of them. I'm super grateful!

I love the idea of the tier unlocks in the military tree; I think something like this would come as the game matures, and you want to add more to it. I also think it would be fun to mix and match a bit more!

So many exciting things to look forward to. Thank you! <3

We're looking forward to all of you playing around with these new weapons! :)

Kynrael wrote:

lo_fabre wrote:

Well, not my favourite option, but understand your reason and the people that wants a rework of military quadrant.

There's still the improvements you can get only from curiosities, some are so good...

We still want to create a sense of reward through Curiosities. It's just that in this case, the weapons are clearly seen as a core addition and people want more than anecdotical access to them. :)

Nothing stops you from putting some particularly exotic sidegrade variants of those techs into RNG, i.e. curiosities or missions or what have you, for the added flavour and variety between games. That being said IMHO the main tech, on all tiers, should be reliably obtainable every single game. Or at least, if you choose to go the mutually exclusive tech research route, i.e. reseach slugs OR rails with the other being permanently locked out, it should be the player's deliberate choice that locks them out of a tech, not RNG.

lo_fabre wrote:

Well, not my favourite option, but understand your reason and the people that wants a rework of military quadrant.

There's still the improvements you can get only from curiosities, some are so good...

We still want to create a sense of reward through Curiosities. It's just that in this case, the weapons are clearly seen as a core addition and people want more than anecdotical access to them. :)

Well, not my favourite option, but understand your reason and the people that wants a rework of military quadrant.

There's still the improvements you can get only from curiosities, some are so good...

If we do get around to doing some kind of module market, it'll be further down the line. And we want to avoid having these modules based on RNG, as it's clearly something that is seen as problematic for most players here. The most probable is that we're going to review the Military Quadrant, but that is still being discussed on our side :)

For sure military quadrant is getting too overcrowded.

As I see the advantages of linking the white modules to quadrant unlock, I'm most in the line of black market.

I like both ideas, but the black market adds a bit RNG, but can be compensated. I f you think about heroes in the market, you can also get them from quest and the "regular" Academy hero. These heroes are RNG dependant, but at the end, you have various optios to look for the class you want (not so simple with the faction, due to only 4 classes and lots of factions).

Going same way, having a black market tab, just like the heroes tab, full with some RNG of this new modules, and also some improvements you can actually get only from curiosities, will make it colser to actual hero mechanics. Thinking how lucky can you be by getting some improvements from a curiosity in early game, give us at least some RNG to get it for a price, while at same time you can make some free space in military quadrant.

I understand some people don't like actual heroes system, but even not being perfect, you always have options (you get them from 3 sources), so IMO you can make the same with some of actual curiosities content and the new from the last update. This alleviates RNG, but doesn't erases it completely.

Hi again,

OK, thanks for all your feedback. We're gonna quickly see what we can do to take away the RNG factor. I've jotted down all your propositions!

Cheers,

One more idea or suggestion if you wish - beside the point shared by seemingly all that such technology is integral to the strategy of the game and as such should not be subject to RNG I think one thing that might make for interesting games would be to make the new weapons exclusive in regards to their alternatives, i.e. in the tech tree to have to choose whether to research slugs or rails, missles or swarm-missles, as we have already do with certain technologies. That would make those decisions more meaningful, not unlike, say, empire upgrades which once made are set in stone.

It's open for discussion whether being able to choose from more or less weapon alternatives at each tier is good/bad, but seeing as we already have such exclusivity and have to choose one of two mutually exlusive techs to research, maybe doing the same with these would not be such a bad idea?

I actually think that purchasing the modules as blueprints from the market would be interesting. You would still need to research the marketplace tech anyway.

I also support making all white modules linked to unlocking the associated tech tier on the military quadrant. Or at least just the weapon modules.

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say that linking white modules to military quadrant tech level rather than individual techs would be a significant improvement over the current situation, for multiple reasons, and also that it sounds like a bad idea to lock strategically important systems behind the RNG of curiosities (though I do love curiosities).

Given that we are about to have two new projectile weapon types, why not split them into two techs, one for slugs and railguns, the other for standard warheads and swarm missiles? That way you keep a pleasing symmetry with weapon unlocks, and players have to make a strategic choice with their weapons tech: do they take the powerful but risky long-ranged missiles, the conservative, short-ranged kinetics, or the all-purpose (but ideally less exploitable) energy weapons?

Aitarus wrote:

I also am quite fond of this, although it'd have to be carefully balanced. Black market for access to curiosity modules?

That's an interesting idea. Do you mean purchasing the blueprints for modules, or purchasing modules themselves from the market, much like we do with ships? Perhaps the faction that found a module and sold it on the marketplace would get a cut of all the profits in the second case, which would help factions desperate for cash but always be a risky move.

Thanks Kynrael for the update, those modules will make combat even more interesting!

However, as already said by the others, I strongly suggest that you do not tie the level of modules to curiosities and thus RNG. It would be a terrible decision imho.

IceGremlin and SuperMarloWorld's propositions are really interesting though. Unlocking of white weapons like EL would make sense, and a kind of black market for special modules/weapons could be really cool from a strategic point of view.

Slashman wrote:

IceGremlin wrote:

I stand by my previous statements that regarding Military Quadrant overcrowding, White quality weapon and defense modules should become Stage Unlocks like in Endless Legend. I can see twelve slots on that screen which would be emptied if you did that, eight of which are on overcrowded techs. 

If you did the same with basic Squadrons, but perhaps not Advanced Squadrons, you'd have a lot of space to,  move in all of the more interesting Military techs scattered in other quadrants.

This does make some sense.

Agreed, at least for the white weapon and defense for sure. I have never ever researched those during the 400 hours I put in the game.