samsonazs wrote:

nuyu wrote:

After few playthrough as Vodyani, I'm starting to like them. They are bit underpowered at first(manpower is one of it). But once you have strong foundation you can snowball everything. Seriously nothing can't stop you, at mid game I just invade and anchor.

The snowball problem is a different topic. I have that with any faction I play.
There is a separate thread for that.

What I mean here is, they are meant to be weak early but strong at late game. I think all mentioned issue by your post are fit for their traits because at later game they are strong, so it's balanced for them to be hard and weak first to let other factions have a good starting. If they are already competative since beginning that would be more imbalance. Sorry for confusion, I don't think I'm in wrong thread.

Abrasax wrote:

IceGremlin wrote:

Abrasax wrote:

My suggestion to add an invinite conversion (propaganda) for Religious would be the easiest and most thematically consistent solution to this easily-solved problem. There are reasons Horatio and Cravers have similar infinite conversions (propaganda) for Ecologist and Militarist respectively. It's high time a similar mechanic were added specifically for the Vodyani, regardless of whether or not any of the manpower suggestions are added.

That's incorrect. Horatio and Cravers don't just get some unique, free Propaganda ability for the hell of it, it's been a feature of Dictatorship for months now that you get propaganda for your chosen party.

To "implement" it for Vodyani would mean to lock them into Dictatorship, while ignoring the root problem that Religious party lacks associated political actions.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize that was a mechanic of the particular government and thought it was a faction affinity.

And yes, there is a serious lack of Religiously influenced tech, improvements and events. Though, from what I understand, choosing the Militarist choice also boosts Religious sentiment for the Vodyani, correct?

Also, why isn't the Vodyani a Dictatorship? Such a dogmatic theocracy seems like it should be Totalitarian. Federation seems out of place with their lore.

They're a federation because they're focused on heroes. Yes they're totalitarian but they're also ruled by an elite group rather than a powerful individual.

Think Catholic church hierarchy. Yes the pope is powerful, but in the end a lot of the power (and decision making) is in the hands of the cardinals.

Vodyani depend a lot on starting system / nearby systems in early game. 

Did you get a system with 2-3 planets colonized? You're good to go for early game even if you don't find other players / minor factions in first 30 turns (am playing on endless speed so that is very early in the game). You didn't? Then pray that you find a good 4-5 planets system with at least 2-3 planets to move your first arc to, otherwise you're in trouble.

So in a way, they are similar to Vaulters (excluding the start). You colonize slow at start, but when you do, you get a lot more from it than rest of factions. Also, unlike Vaulters, Vodyani care little about size or type of planets, as long as there are many in the system.

Their power comes from the fact that when they reach mid-game, they can challenge any race for dust / science / industry / food production. Their influence gains are smaller than other races (who can specialize planets for it). Also - correct me if I am wrong - Vodyani can't terraform (I think they can still remove / alter anomalies but that's it).

Yes terraforming is blocked for Vodyani and the fact that they don't care about planet size and can fit the same number of population on any planet size does make an advantage.

But as you mentioned there is no specialization available.

All that I think balances out when you compare a fully developed Arc with a fully developed and terraformed system. 

Didn't run the numbers so I might be wrong.

samsonazs wrote:

Yes terraforming is blocked for Vodyani and the fact that they don't care about planet size and can fit the same number of population on any planet size does make an advantage.

But as you mentioned there is no specialization available.

All that I think balances out when you compare a fully developed Arc with a fully developed and terraformed system. 

Didn't run the numbers so I might be wrong.

An Ark has an advantage if the goal is producing something specific. But is generally more expensive to keep "up to date" and is weaker in secondary outputs.