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I Don't Think I've Scum-Saved in a Game So Much Before. Help Me Get My Head On Straight.

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5 years ago
Apr 19, 2020, 2:59:48 AM
Greetings. 

Okay, managed to finally to pop the mouse-wheel back into my mouse and now I"m looking to find some isnightful advice for anyone kind enough to provide. I don't know the overall tone of this forum, so I don't know if I'm in the right place. I tried the Steam forum, but the few replies given consist of a quick blurts that don't take into account when someone ask basic Game 101 question, the answer shouldn't refer to stuff that the person asking probably doesn't know about either. There may be somet button somewhere to click on some screen that I might have not have seen many times but didn't make the connection. 

So I figure I should just itemize my problematic perceptions, and if anyone want to take a bite at any of it, then you have my hearty thanks for whatever that is worth.

1) Most basic thing: I know the game has tutorials, but even after all these years, there's no official reference akin to a Civopedia as far as I can tell. Not even a legend to look up all the tiny little symbols. Luxuries are represented by uniersally-wite little icons, and often there's not even a mouseover (like on the Population screen that's buried in the Senate Screen). 

2) Enemy fleets seem to pop in and out of line of sight at will. I'm in a war with the Riftborn, and they had a fleet that I can't keep track of. They don't even have a star lane connecting to my empire, and I'm blockading their nearest system, but somehow they were able to get a fleet of ships on systems that would take me 20+ turns to get to if I were just relying of laneless free travel.

3) A battle pops up and the colors seem balanced. Fleets are the same size. The color wheel is about 50/50. Battles over, my fleet has been wiped out summarily. If they had vastly superior tech, seems like the color wheel wouldn't not given me those odds. 

4) Okay, this one really blows my mind and I definitely don't get how this is fun. Once a fleet jumps into a star lane, it's commited, If a stronger fleet pops up at the desitnation, then you're on a cattle chute to death. If an enemy pops up behind you, you can't reverse. This isn't a problem itself, but it takes multiple turns to travel a lane, and of course it's a problem when incoming enemies are jsut popping in and out of detection. Slow rate of movement and sudden appearance/disappearance of enemies makes for no ability to react, much less plan. If there are techs to mitigate either speed or detection ranges, I've managed to miss them. 

5) There seems to be no bread-and-butter means of producing influence. And by "breat-and-butter" I mean something that can replicated and scaled, not relying on happenstance like recruiting heroes with certain skills or getting a boost from exploration. I eventually unlocked the National Museum, but that's a levle 3 tech and that requires happy citizens. The closest thing I've found is specializing planets in influence.

6) I signed a research agreement, which apparently siphons influence from the empire and converts into some amount of science. I guess it's per citizen, so my 150 pops basically wound up sucking me dry in a couple turns. I realize the agreement is insanely impossible to sustain, so i want to cancel, but to do that I have to actually have influence to spend. Wha....?

7) Population units die off without providing information as to why they're dying, other than "affinity". If I'm able to colonize a planet, I tend to think it's actually possible to habitate it. If a species has an affinity for a specific climate, that's fine, but there's no explanation of what the favored climes are. Pretty annoying when you get a minor race that I would like to see propigate. 

Again, thanks.
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5 years ago
Apr 19, 2020, 9:08:06 AM

It seems you are missing some basic knowledge, which of course is partially fault of tutorials themselves simply just learning you to utilize basic mechanics and not going in depth on topics.


Can I interest you in one out of 100 steam guides for beginners?
How about TUTORIALS section right on this forum?
Would you like to see it in action? Perhaps one in 1000 of ES2 related videos on youtube.
I see most of your questions have reliable keywords which can be googled if the search bar on top does not strike your fancy.
Still missing it? Perhaps a link to first google result will satisfy you.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 19, 2020, 9:25:03 AM

"Search the interent, it's outt there somewhere". Well that's not very insightful or welcoming, but I guess that wasn't the intent. I thought this was an appropriate forum for newcomers to seek out wisdom from the seasoned, but looks like I could be mistaken.


Is there some way to report troll posts like the one above, or is this an unmoderated forum? 

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 19, 2020, 10:04:46 AM

1. Mouse over your luxuries in your F2(?) list I think, it shows a list of all of them and their effects in system development

2. There is a tech for free movement, for most factions it is called Baryonic Shielding. The supremacy DLC also includes ship stealth if you own that

3. Battle is very complex, just a few things to keep note of, your ships are only good in specific ranges, just an example, missiles are good long range, so if you have a high missile fleet make sure you choose a battle strategy that allows your weapons to attack efficiently. Some weapons have unique effects and uses that aren't explained, such as slugs being used for missile defense. Oftentimes if you counter a fleet completely, it will show their strengths as equal, but you'll get a 0% K/D ratio because you chose a tactic that forced your ships into a range they couldn't maintain accuracy in. Koxsos has written a really helpful guide on this somewhere on steam, but it's also uploaded here on G2G.

4. It isn't fun, but it leads to interesting tactics during wars. If this was not the case, ship combat and tactics wouldn't be very interesting. Add speed modules to your ships if you are tired of them being slow, though attack ships tend to have low support module slots, and support ships tend to have low attack module slots.

5. This depends on who you are playing, for Unfallen and United Empire influence is fairly easy to produce, especially late game. The best way to generate influence is to research things on the left side of the skill tree that give you influence buildings, or by constructing planet specializations that give you influence per population. Another way to do this is to use system development with luxuries.

6. Research Agreements tend to be more useful lategame, and favor one side of the agreement more than the other.

7. Hover over a planet to see how much unhappiness or food it produces. Sterile, Cold, and Hot planets are hard on your food and happiness early game, but hot planets provide industry, sterile provide dust, and cold provide science. Also, specific populations will prefer specific types of planets, make sure you check their bonuses. The explanation ARE their population traits, such as +2 happiness on cold.

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5 years ago
Apr 19, 2020, 10:33:07 AM

I am sorry for linking a beginner guide to you, I can see how that is directly related to the crushing weight of my ego under all those forum badges.

I just get frustrated with people asking for guidance but not interested in guides.
Speaking as one of countless authors who just do not want to repost extracts everytime someone asks the same question that has been asked dozen times before.

You complain answers in steam discussions are too in depth, yet you refuse to read a 101 guide provided to you and consider it trolling.
You say something similar to civilization wiki does not exist, yet you ignore the very existence of both official (fair enough not all that useful) and fanmade wiki.
Edit:
To elaborate you now have 7 answers to 7 specific questions, you do not get an context material as you simply ignore the option to read an overall guide.
Do you know everything there is to know about fleet movement? No, you just got baryonic shielding reference.
Do you know where baryonic shielding is? Not neccesarily, because you don't know about tech placements and tech build paths either. (but hey even science screen actually has a search bar, if you are willing to go that far that is)
Someone actually put in an effort and made a very lovely luxury explanation infographic, it would be real shame if people just blatanetly ignored it.
Don't feel like reading? Fine, there are even people on youtube who call their content "pro guides" related to endless space 2.
They spend excessive amount of time going over multitude of details you might have even missed so far in.
The forum itself went so far as it even has a tutorial section it's right up there, just click it.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 19, 2020, 10:49:14 AM

2. Are you aware of wormholes? Those are hidden paths between constelations that are unlocked by researching a tech in tier 3 scientific quadrant. They consume all your movement points but can push you great distances, so your enemies might be using them. Also fleets "popping and disappearing" might be because of cloaking, which allows ships to toggle visibility. You need to research anti-cloacking technology in the military quadrant to spot those. Also there are several ways to increase warp (out of starlanes) movement. There are 2 technologies in scientific quadrant that do this, also there are hero skills that greatly increase your warp speed. I managed to cross the whole galaxy within 1 turn with some heroes.

3. Victory is decided by 2 factors mostly: your weapon composition and your ships' position in battle. It is important though, that those two are tied together because different weapons perform better at different ranges. I think you should know the basics of energy/kinetic weapons (first better against fleets with hull plating and no shields and last are opposite). So I guess your main concern would be picking battle cards right, so your ships' position would play well with their design. There are 3 lanes (flotillas) in combat, the central main lane, the top lane and the bottom lane. In battle ships will shoot enemy in their lane first and if they kill it, they can switch to shooting at adjacent lanes, however side lanes can't shoot each other. Then there is another factor which is range and it is decided by battle cards for all three lanes. It is important that ships only start shooting when they are at their range, so in battle it will take them time to reach their firing position first and only then they'll start shooting. To get a grasp of how to win combat I suggest not using close-range battlecards, because what actually happens when you use them is your ships try to reach the short range and get shredded by enemy ships from afar. There are some good uses for close range cards but those are a bit more advanced and require better flotilla knowledge, which I can't explain in the text form. Also try to avoid using rockets at first, because they only work well if enemies have no Slugs (which can target and shoot down rockets before they reach you) or if you pair them with Swarm Missles so that Slugs get overwhelmed and your rockets can go through (swarms are unlocked in military quadrant). The good way to start will be getting some energy weapons on your attackers and slugs on your defenders and mix them in 2/1 or 3/1 ratio. Get some coordinators (at least 3) and a good number of attackers. You can skip armor on your attackers because coordinators and protectors attract fire and get hit instead. So make your attackers glass canons, upgrade their hulls (tier 3 empire quadrant for attackers and tier 4 for hunters) and get energy intensifiers in support slots and more weapons - make them little canons of death. Equip your protectors/coordinators with best armor, favoring shields, beacuse your only bane at medium and long range are enemy rockets and your slugs can protect you from them. If you go full lasers, then take trophies is a good starting battle card because all three flotillas have medium range preset, so your ships will utilize their weapons 100% wherever you place them. You can split your fleet between flotillas to get morale bonuses but remember to put at least 1 protector each lane along with attackers.

4. I guess I already answered it above.

5. You actually named quite a lot of ways to generate influence, don't you think? xD There is no OP way to get a lot of it investing nothing. Sometimes you get a bit lucky and find unique planet early which usually generate a lot of influence. You can get a good amount from exploring curiosities as well, that helps early. And in the later stages Museums are the way to go. If you are unhappy by that point then you are doing something wrong. If you want to avoid influence problems you can try playing Unfallen, they always gain a bunch.

6. Agreements are not super strong in general and are not worth it as a catch-up tool, but sometimes you have +99999 influence and those are a good way to dump some. 

7. They likely die out because you don't have enough food. That can happen when you conquer a system and it gets mutinous state which is a -75% food penalty so guys start dying unless you vacate some of them via spaceport or put some bigass food hero as a governor.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 19, 2020, 10:54:06 AM

  @koxsos  yeah I agree in general but I haven't seen a single worthy combat guide and had to figure things out here as well
this is fine, I guess, no need to be negative

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 20, 2020, 6:59:50 PM

Captain Cobbs, mamarider, thanks for the  responses


I think if you have a game forum, it think it should be expected and even welcomed that new people will come here to seek direct advice from experienced players. It's great that there is a wealth of are player-generated resources, but at the same time it's not reasonable to expect players to scour through masses of unofficial content of varying quality before seeking insght. It certainly doesn't help a forum's growth when they first post makes receives a snide response from some wiht a VIP badge. Creates the impression that the joint is a snake pit. Yourr positive response refute that, and I see Kossus has edited out of his initial barbs. I'm appreciative and will refer back to this thread as I play tonight. 


So, regarding combat and ships, it sounds like editing and designing one's own ships isn't really an optional move. The game isn't going to automatically provide a variety of builds around the threee weapon types. Seems like at level 3 on the military branch, a player has to make an either-or choice between hyperium or or titanium-based weapons. I pick hyperium, then I'm locking into beam weapons, and that's what my default ship builds all are now. And the military tech tree has an insane number of support modules so players are tossed into the deep end quickly. This may simply not be the game for a player who's not interested enough in the war aspect of 4X to spend time kitting their on ships. 


Is there any way to know what techs other civ's have and what designs they're going with, beyond meeting them in the field of battle? 


As for wormholes, I know about them but even after researching the tech, I don't see them on the map around my civ. 



mamarider wrote:

5. You actually named quite a lot of ways to generate influence, don't you think? xD 

Sure, but they're happenstance based, not the bread-and-butter soruces to which I was referring. You have pretty ways to improve other yields, just not influence, at least not until getting pretty deep into the eexpnansion wedge fo the tech pie  I was wondering if I was missing something, because my inluence spheres were expanding more slowly than the AI. Doesn't sound like I did miss anything though, which is good to know


I guess it must have been food causing pop loss, but it didn't seem like it was affecting the Kalmat, who I assimilated from lava and ash planets. I was paying Lumeris, so it was pretty easy to keep everyone Ecstatic. 


Couple more questions you guys might indulge:


7)  I was trying to corral minor races onto specific systemsl, and removing Lumeris from them entirely. I figured that would help them increase their factions and generate some political diversity so it's not two-thirds pacifists and single digits everybody else (not arguing that Lumeris shouldn't be pacifists, mind you). Is this strategy worth bothering with? At one point I wanted Industrialist laws, but even with me growing out systems with 100% Kalmats, I do notice during the election that these systems still may only generate 1 Industrialist vote. I  also went after Industrialist leaders, but still no dent. 


8)  I researched Cultural Flexibility to flip some Riftborn systems that I've swallowed up in my influecne sphere. Thing is, their alliance wound up going to war with mine, and they keep forcing a truce and while I can easily declare war again, that doesn't get me to peace or cold war. Is there a way back to that?  Is my solutiion to getting out of a war/truce dichotomy to quit the alliance? 



koxsos wrote:

You complain answers in steam discussions are too in depth, yet you refuse to read a 101 guide provided to you and consider it trolling.

You say something similar to civilization wiki does not exist, yet you ignore the very existence of both official (fair enough not all that useful) and fanmade wiki.

I didn't say the Steam discussions are too in-depth. I said they were quick blurts that assume the poster knows the terms they're tossing out. Nor did , I say anything critical about Civopedia. I said Endless Space doesn't  have an equivalent. 

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 20, 2020, 8:23:01 PM

You will not see wormholes if you set your galaxy to unique (1 constellation). Perhaps you did that.

1. You'd have to do some heavy vote manipulation and gerrymandering with your pops (Kalgeros and Lumeris aren't good population to get industrial support with, usually the robotic races are easier) if you want industrialist. The best way to do this is to just play United Empire, as they get crazy industrialist support.


2. Truce Expires after a few turns, but cultural conversion will probably anger them and just lead to war anyways.

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5 years ago
Apr 20, 2020, 9:01:12 PM
steveg700 wrote:

The game isn't going to automatically provide a variety of builds around the threee weapon types.

That is not actually true. Every time you reach a new tier in the military tree, you unlock some white "basic" weapon modules and defensive modules. Knowing the drill has more impact than sheer firepower in ES2, so you can beat AI with superior weapons with a cheese strategy, such as going heavy on Bombers and using Prudent Positions tactic, or using Cloacked Ambush module and going full Railguns or Slugs, with evasive maneuvers tactic. It is worth mentioning that shooting sidelanes is less effective than shooting straight, so you can do this: make a long range torpedo+swarms/beam fleet but squeeze 2-4 close range  attackers with some slugs. Put your long ranges mid lane and split attackers between sidelanes. If enemy splits its fleet in 3 lanes as well you will lose those kamikaze ships but it will weaken his overall efficiency because after he kills them he'd be forced to shoot sidelanes with a big number of his ships which means less damage. If he keeps fleet packed in 1 lane your little kamikaze ships will help to put down his main section without being damaged. And having many flotillas also gives you morale bonuses or negates penalties depanding on your opponents composition. See a lot of small ships? Research Blast Effect Battery and put it on coordinator. Not only it is specialized in killing swarming fleets, but it also increases chance to be targeted which is perfect for your coordinators. Manipulating aggro is very important as well. I sometimes use protectors and equip them with flotilla shields + adamantium jammers so they are not preffered over my coordinators and give bonuses to the whole flotilla. Once you start understanding how things work they become really interesting, so better not skip this part and get good at it.

Also try checking this guide
It is an alright one and covers several important moments

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5 years ago
Apr 20, 2020, 9:14:44 PM

The only part of the game where you should consider pushing any of the parties manually is first 20 turns. During that part you don't have many voters, so you'll need to push opinion through actions, such as exploring curiosities or discovering techs. In the later stages with honest elections your primary population will usually crush other ideologies. Another issue is that militarists/pacifists are most commonly triggered ideologies. In the screenshot below you can see what I am talking about: even though I am a Vaulter player ( 50+ science pops), even though I have over 150!! ecological biased pops and almost 80 religious guys, I still get militarists to win with a huge gap.

So the only way to force some less action-supported politics is by influencing elections (while having upgraded tech for it, I think it goes along with colonizing toxics). Or you can switch to dictatorship, but it limits your law pool.

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5 years ago
Apr 20, 2020, 11:56:10 PM
CaptainCobbs wrote:

You will not see wormholes if you set your galaxy to unique (1 constellation). Perhaps you did that.

1. You'd have to do some heavy vote manipulation and gerrymandering with your pops (Kalgeros and Lumeris aren't good population to get industrial support with, usually the robotic races are easier) if you want industrialist. The best way to do this is to just play United Empire, as they get crazy industrialist support.

Upon reflection, I should've continued numbering my questions as 7 & 8. I should go back and do that I guess. Think I will go back and edit that in....


Cap'n, it was Kalmats, the bandwidth-boosting race, not Kalgens, the happy-making race. A guide i read (and rest assured, I have actually consulted guides before and after posting here) said they were the only good way to get more bandwidth, so without even understanding hacking I dove head first into growing them because they lhave and Industrialist orientation. Turns hacking is kind of limited in its results, but I was hoping to at least boost IndustriThe advice the game gives is to increase industrial through system developments and colonization, both of which I've done earnestly. @mamarider made remarks that seem to confirm what I'm eperiencing: pacifist and militarist overwhelm the other ideologies.


My expereince with truces so far is that eventually the truce just goes back to war, and then another truce winds up being forced shortly afterwards. Endless shuffle.


mamarider wrote:
steveg700 wrote:

The game isn't going to automatically provide a variety of builds around the threee weapon types.

That is not actually true. Every time you reach a new tier in the military tree, you unlock some white "basic" weapon modules and defensive modules. Knowing the drill has more impact than sheer firepower in ES2, so you can beat AI with superior weapons with a cheese strategy, such as going heavy on Bombers and using Prudent Positions tactic, or using Cloacked Ambush module and going full Railguns or Slugs, with evasive maneuvers tactic. It is worth mentioning that shooting sidelanes is less effective than shooting straight, so you can do this: make a long range torpedo+swarms/beam fleet but squeeze 2-4 close range  attackers with some slugs. Put your long ranges mid lane and split attackers between sidelanes. If enemy splits its fleet in 3 lanes as well you will lose those kamikaze ships but it will weaken his overall efficiency because after he kills them he'd be forced to shoot sidelanes with a big number of his ships which means less damage. If he keeps fleet packed in 1 lane your little kamikaze ships will help to put down his main section without being damaged. And having many flotillas also gives you morale bonuses or negates penalties depanding on your opponents composition. See a lot of small ships? Research Blast Effect Battery and put it on coordinator. Not only it is specialized in killing swarming fleets, but it also increases chance to be targeted which is perfect for your coordinators. Manipulating aggro is very important as well. I sometimes use protectors and equip them with flotilla shields + adamantium jammers so they are not preffered over my coordinators and give bonuses to the whole flotilla. Once you start understanding how things work they become really interesting, so better not skip this part and get good at it.

Also try checking this guide
It is an alright one and covers several important moments

I actually am attracted to the idea of combat not just being roshambo between  (in historical 4X, archers/infantry/cav, in space 4X, missles/beams/kinetic), so this apeals to me. 


The thing I was commenting on, to which you replied, was that the game only provides one auto-build option for each ship type. Indeed, I just now realized that the game is not even auto-updating the auto-build design. I have to edit each ship type and then click the Auto-Design button. I don't think I love that. 


 But here's a real source of hair-pulling. I chose Hyperium Magnetics over Advanced Fusion Power. That would tend to mean I do better with a beam weapon design. But when I edit my build and click Auto-Design, it only loads out projectiles (basic torpedoes in the medium ships, basic slugs in the small ships). What is happening there? Why is it not putting any beam weapons--basic or improved--on the ship?  

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 21, 2020, 7:03:28 AM

Apologies, I misread about Kalmats, but if enough of a specific political event happens they'll vote for that instead of what their political traits decide

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5 years ago
Apr 21, 2020, 7:20:47 AM
steveg700 wrote:
But when I edit my build and click Auto-Design, it only loads out projectiles (basic torpedoes in the medium ships, basic slugs in the small ships). What is happening there? Why is it not putting any beam weapons--basic or improved--on the ship?

Auto-Design improves the chosen types of equipment, only. Keep in mind it doesn't switch to better stuff (using strategic ressources). In case you have white equipment, it will improve to better (if available) white equipment, as long as you don't switch to strategic (i. e. titanium/hyperium equipment) equipment before.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 21, 2020, 2:23:23 PM
I see, thank you.

If the auto-design is going to avoid volunteering a player's resources (which is understandable), seems like it could go ahead and upgrade each ship's resource-agnostic components rather than the player having to go in and Edit -->  Click Auto-Design for each ship after each tech unlock. 

A nice practical feature would be a toggle for auto-designing with startegic resources. Then again, if it only swaps out same-for-same, then it still wouldn't pick a beam when the default is kinetic. 


Inoonsistent game, this Endless Space. Some elements seem well-polished and nuanced. Others, inexpliably threadbare (like leaving it to players to create an encyclopedic source of reference that should be in-game).There are subsystems like internal poitics that fascinated me as a builder-type player, but if most of the parties have no real means for the player to nurture and mature, and it's ultimately about spending dust or influence to click a "Buy the Pot'" button, then doesn't nuance go out the window? Those are the early impressions anyway. 

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 21, 2020, 3:39:40 PM

Autoupgrading designs will increase their production and buyout costs, which is undesirable at some scenarios. In any case, you would rarely want that at all, be it single button press or each time new module is available. Manual design always suits your needs better.


It will take you some time 'till you reach the point where you can just place the party you want to senate with dust or influence. And maturing your party is a thing, because of political experience. Parties that win elections several times unlock progressively better special laws, that they can pass.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 21, 2020, 4:20:39 PM

Designing a decent ship can be hard sometimes. Especially since there where quite a few balance changes since the game exists. In my experience you cannot do so much wrong with slugs and lasercannons (not the beam weapons) for starters. Add both defence modules and you re set with decent (But maybe not the best possible) ship designs. From this point you can easily experiment with different specialized ships and different tactics. If you directly start with all the dlcs activated it might be harder to learn all the small things the game has to offer.

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5 years ago
Apr 21, 2020, 4:44:32 PM

BTW since you mentioned fleets out of sight. A bigger influence radius and upgrades and heroskills that improve your sight are very useful with this. The behemoth type ships can become very powerfull in this area.

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5 years ago
Apr 21, 2020, 5:36:55 PM

Thanks. Since behemoths have been brought up, let me go ahead and ask....What was the point of introducing? Did the game have a balance problem (or problems) that behemoths were intended to address? Or is it just filing a traditional expectation of space 4x games that there is some class of super-ship? 


(btw, I did watch a video about behemoths before posting)

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Apr 21, 2020, 5:54:40 PM

How can behemoths help with scouting and vision range? I am curious as well. 

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