Resource Transmutation System

Downer

Newcomer

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 1:34:03 PM

Had this idea when looking at the Luxury Resource thread, and had this as a new feature to address resource flood.

Basically with the bonus to resource gathering technologies and laws, you can feel pretty set off of one resource deposit and by late game have more resource then you know what to do with. In Endless Legend even in the late game I always needed more Glassteel and Titanium. You would just never have enough.

In Endless Space 2, there just really isn't enough places to spend it. It's in the design I think. You will get far fewer resource deposits on average, but there is technology to make up for it. This means that you are either drowning in a resource or you have absolutely no natural access to it.

My solution is to have a resource transmutation system where you spend lower level resources to create high level resources. It would be Technology that you would have to unlock, but you would build it like the Population-> Manpower improvement, where it last a turn (or however many turns) costs X of the lower level resource plus a certain Industry cost that would determine the number of turns that it would take. Once it's done, you would gain the specified amount of resources.

It would also make the market more interesting, where you might have a little more speculation/tension as to the decision to buy it in the Marketplace or just make them yourself. Right now, it's more just a case of if I need it, and it's there, then I buy it.

Updated a month ago.

Comments

Copied to clipboard!

Dragar

Scout

Dragar

Scout

22 400g2g pts

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 1:53:11 PM

I think there are two aspects: strategic and luxury.

On the strategic side, I think it's just a matter of increasing costs on the early resources. Lategame buildings should start costing 30-40 of a resource, and weapons/hulls could have their costs increased too.

In the luxury side, there's nothing to tweak: either you want a resource, or you don't - and as you point, either you are swimming in it, or you're not. This isn't great design. I'd like to see all resources be able to be 'spent' in some fashion, with bonuses worth less than the system development bonuses, but still something that is better than dumping hundreds of luxuries on the market at rock-bottom prices. This provides a tunable 'dump' for resources you're flooded with but don't want to waste precious system development slots exploiting.

Updated 8 years ago.

Downer

Newcomer

Downer

Newcomer

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 2:06:03 PM

Some how accidentally edited this post then reply to the last post.

Updated 8 years ago.

Dragar

Scout

Dragar

Scout

22 400g2g pts

8 years ago

May 23, 2017, 2:08:41 PM

Downer wrote:
Yeah, I mean that's the most straight forward approach and that would work.

I think, when pushing for ideas on a game that's already released and has a lot of competing needs for development time, this isn't something to discount!

Here's an argument against transmutation: I can see it ending up as busywork, requiring you to micromanage system production in producing luxuries, as well as diluting the challenges and decisions that come from not having all the resources. Scarcity is important to preserve; it's the glut we want to get rid of.

I've added my idea here. https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/766

Updated 8 years ago.

Downer

Newcomer

Downer

Newcomer

https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/764-job-marketplace

8 years ago

May 24, 2017, 12:56:36 AM

Dragar wrote:
Downer wrote:
Yeah, I mean that's the most straight forward approach and that would work.
I think, when pushing for ideas on a game that's already released and has a lot of competing needs for development time, this isn't something to discount!

Here's an argument against transmutation: I can see it ending up as busywork, requiring you to micromanage system production in producing luxuries, as well as diluting the challenges and decisions that come from not having all the resources. Scarcity is important to preserve; it's the glut we want to get rid of.

I've added my idea here. https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/766

Sure, but the point is irrelevant. I mean, I don't imagine that they aren't going to adjust the cost for things over time. They can do that and implement other changes as well. I mean, it would be pointless for me to go over to your idea and say "well, it's easier for them to just balance the numbers rather than implement a new mechanic."

Are there "decisions" that come from a lack of resources? I honestly don't feel like this is the case. What options open up by not having any Titanium? If having resources renders the game obvious, then that that's a problem not a feature. If we are talking about Luxury resources, how does having the minimum create more options? How does not having Titanium, open more options?

I mean, if you just want a puzzle to solve that's fine. But there is an option to turn resources to scarce and other adjustments that you can implement if that's what you want. I mean, "transmutation" does not mean that you suddenly have an infinite supply of something. If you have a scare amount of resources, in one case, you would have a scarce amount of resources in any case.

I'm not planning on taking away any of the current options. So you can just ignore the option and do whatever you were doing beforehand, which I would assume would not be viewed as busy work. I don't really see why this would be "busy" work compared to anything else.

Re: your suggestion, this is actually the idea behind my other suggestion, but I made it broader than just to address luxury resources.

Dragar

Scout

Dragar

Scout

22 400g2g pts

8 years ago

May 25, 2017, 9:06:48 AM

Downer wrote:

Are there "decisions" that come from a lack of resources?

Absolutely! And typically it's not a complete lack of resources, but a scarcity. So then you get really interesting decisions - do I spend my titanium on weapons or science buildings? I try to colonize this marginal system for the resource, or just get what I need from the market? If there's no such thing as a lack of resource, we may as well not have that resource in the game.

Downer

Newcomer

Downer

Newcomer

8 years ago

May 26, 2017, 2:26:00 PM

Dragar wrote:
Downer wrote:

Are there "decisions" that come from a lack of resources?
Absolutely! And typically it's not a complete lack of resources, but a scarcity. So then you get really interesting decisions - do I spend my titanium on weapons or science buildings? I try to colonize this marginal system for the resource, or just get what I need from the market? If there's no such thing as a lack of resource, we may as well not have that resource in the game.

You are overblowing the impact, and given that I have offered no conversion rate the idea that "we'll be able to build everything now" has no basis and is purely your conjecture. Certainly there is a rate that would create a problem, but as you yourself put, these numbers can be tweaked. There are also any number of means to address such an issue (degrading exchange rate, marketplace supply/demand mechanisms, etc. etc.), but I'm not trying to get ahead of myself.

Also, the "choice" that you are talking about is always made. Regardless of the availability of a given resource, you always make a decision as to which would be better given a circumstance. There are plenty of building that only cost industry. All technology only costs science. Are you saying that there are no choices? From your perspective, it seems like there are very few choices.

In any case, you seem to be confused on the issue. Currently, there are resources that are not scarce and that there are an overabundance with. Further, the frequency of resources to systems is also such that there can be resources that you can simply have no regular access to and thus are currently scarce (to the point of being inaccessible). My suggestion is to allow an exchange of the overabundant resource (hence increase it's usage, hence increasing it's relative scarcity) so that other resources can be available (and there are no choices if there are no resource to pay for those choices).

Click here to login

Comment

Characters : 0