I thought this game was polished? - Endless Space

I thought this game was polished?

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BlueTemplar

Newcomer

BlueTemplar

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 3:02:24 PM

AI's cheat in the overwhelming majority of 4X games. Usually by having economic bonuses, while the player has maluses. It's just not worthwhile for a developer to make a good AI for turn based games as complex as these (assuming that it is even possible) when you can just add economic bonuses and the overwhelming majority of players won't even notice.

Here are the bonuses the AI receives in ES :

http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Game_settings

As you can see, the AI "cheats" even at Newbie difficulty.

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Travisk

Old

Boldly go where no man has gone before.

Travisk

Old

10 years ago

Oct 7, 2014, 7:06:22 PM

Easily achievable. It's not a matter of polish, it's a matter of strategy.

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Jodet

Newcomer

'The further a society drifts from truth the more they will hate those who speak it'. -George Orwell

Jodet

Newcomer

10 years ago

Oct 4, 2014, 4:26:55 PM

crystalis wrote:
The Design Discussion section for Endless Space.

/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/11544-upcoming-endless-space-update-gathering-of-ideas

Perhaps this is what they were thinking before they realized the release version of EL would be such a crash fest.

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crystalis

Lifter

crystalis

Lifter

10 years ago

Oct 4, 2014, 5:25:24 AM

Idaho wrote:
Really? Where did you here that, about one more patch?

The Design Discussion section for Endless Space.

/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/11544-upcoming-endless-space-update-gathering-of-ideas

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Jodet

Newcomer

'The further a society drifts from truth the more they will hate those who speak it'. -George Orwell

Jodet

Newcomer

10 years ago

Oct 4, 2014, 12:08:30 AM

Griffon wrote:
If you didn't know this, they AI does cheat in ES (according to what I've heard). And as @Stealth_Hawk said the Sheredyn have a lot of tech and traits to get tons of dust. I think one faction improvement they get gives each system it's built on +150 or +250 dust (I haven't played in a while). Not to mention their affinity doesn't allow anyone to retreat. Sheredyn are very good at making dust and war.

If you didn't know: There is at least one more patch coming for ES.

Really? Where did you here that, about one more patch?

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3vilTwin

Newcomer

3vilTwin

Newcomer

10 years ago

Oct 1, 2014, 1:17:06 AM

rockmassif wrote:
I can remember myself getting 10K Industry per system as Sowers. If that's not OP, this is not even close to it.

This is my first time playing as Sowers. I chose random faction and it gave them to me. Currently turn 72. I can believe you made 10k per system if this is any indication...

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rockmassif

Officer

rockmassif

Officer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 10:32:57 PM

I can remember myself getting 10K Industry per system as Sowers. If that's not OP, this is not even close to it.

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g3istbot

Newcomer

g3istbot

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 6:18:46 PM

That's really nothing, as the Automatons I can be beyond 2k dust per turn well before turn 170

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axhed

Newcomer

axhed

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 3:28:33 PM

BlueTemplar wrote:
It's just not worthwhile for a developer to make a good AI for turn based games as complex as these (assuming that it is even possible) when you can just add economic bonuses and the overwhelming majority of players won't even notice.

one thing players would notice: the ten minutes of AI thinking at the end of every turn.

look at chess engines. the pieces, combat, and board are 100 times simpler than endless space. you could have the best chess engine in the world, but if you only give it 5 seconds to think after every turn then it is going to play horribly.

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Kulzar

Stellar

Kulzar

Stellar

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 3:05:57 PM

It is perfectly normal to make that much money at turn 170.

Maybe you should check how to expand properly in early game in order to avoid being completely outclassed by your neighbors! There exists a variety of online resources for that, like Youtube playthroughs for example.

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Patremagne

Newcomer

Patremagne

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 29, 2014, 10:36:48 PM

I bought this after really enjoying Legend and finding it on sale, and I was under the impression it was polished. I lost my first game pretty quick because I made bad decisions - sure, my fault.

But this second one, maybe 170 turns in, my neighbor declares war on me. Cool. I was ready to fight some space battles anyway (or watch them...). The turn after he declares war, I see 4 or 5 maxed fleets fan out into my territory. I inspected his empire - guess what I found?

If that isn't cheating, I don't know what is.

To top it off, I asked for a ceasefire, which he accepted. I thought I was good, but nope, my fleet was stuck blockaded in his system while he continued to invade my planets for several turns while I tried to figure something out.

edit: the image isn't large enough in the post, but open it in a new tab and check his income.

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3vilTwin

Newcomer

3vilTwin

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 2:55:42 PM

A screen shot would be helpful. Yes, the AI does appear to cheat, but it kind of needs to at the higher levels to give the player a challenge. I don't see a few grand per turn after 100 turns to be out of the ordinary though. By 170, I expect to be making 4 grand or better on my slower games or 10 grand on my faster ones. It's usually the AI that isn't producing well by that time.

As far as being attacked during a ceasefire, that's usually me doing that against the AI. It's because of the influence area around the system. If you have full control of the system, they can't invade without a war, but if they or another faction that they're at war with has control, they can invade. It's part of the game mechanic and not a bug. You can do the same thing.

Your biggest advantage is your ability to think on the spot and adapt to changing conditions. The AI can't do this.

axhed wrote:
this is the wrong thread to throw the "cheating" accusation around. dude has 5 resources on turn 170? he was not beaten by a cheating ai.

LOL! I didn't even notice that. How is that even possible?

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axhed

Newcomer

axhed

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 2:53:41 PM

this is the wrong thread to throw the "cheating" accusation around. dude has 5 resources on turn 170? he was not beaten by a cheating ai.

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Griffon

Ardent

Griffon

Ardent

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 2:27:13 PM

If you didn't know this, they AI does cheat in ES (according to what I've heard). And as @Stealth_Hawk said the Sheredyn have a lot of tech and traits to get tons of dust. I think one faction improvement they get gives each system it's built on +150 or +250 dust (I haven't played in a while). Not to mention their affinity doesn't allow anyone to retreat. Sheredyn are very good at making dust and war.

If you didn't know: There is at least one more patch coming for ES.

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greavance

Officer

greavance

Officer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 2:24:53 PM

As a guy who likes playing Sheredyn, I guarantee you I'd have no problem reaching 2000+ income by turn 170. In fact I dare say I could do it on many other factions by then too.

I've found the game is sometimes impenetrably complex at times, especially when you are new to it. Just keep playing, and know that expanding is a key part of this game.

Edit: Dumb spelling.

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axhed

Newcomer

axhed

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 2:06:52 PM

any chance we could get a screenshot of the galaxy map? then maybe we could tell you what went wrong.

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coyote303

Newcomer

coyote303

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 3:58:44 AM

It could be you're new to the game and don't understand how to build an economy that builds lots of dust. Or the game is broken. Hmmmm, which could it be?

smiley: sarcastic

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Patremagne

Newcomer

Patremagne

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 3:03:56 AM

Uhhh....that sounds overpowered and broken as hell.

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Stealth_Hawk

Voyager

Stealth_Hawk

Voyager

10 years ago

Sep 30, 2014, 12:39:57 AM

By turn 170 its not uncommon for me to be gaining over 15k dust per turn as the sheredyn. Its just part of their faction specific techs, they are dust gods

Amoeba can be even better. Sometimes they can get 30k-40k dust a turn

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Kingsguard

Old Fanatic

Winter is coming.

Kingsguard

Old Fanatic

10 years ago

Sep 29, 2014, 10:53:35 PM

Oh my god....

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