Firstly, is there a resource anywhere that displays ALL the formulas of how combat are calculated? I installed Disharmony recently and I can't seem to piece together enough data to figure out how anything in combat works. Which weapon types are over or underpowered? What about setting different ranges... how does that work?



For example, before disharmony I always used to play Sophons and go for lasers/energy weapons. Now I do the same thing, set the weapons to medium range (because lasers are still extra good in the medium range phase, right?) ...aand miss 19/20 shots. Meanwhile some pirates with a bunch of long-range kinetics come and hit almost every single shot. I THOUGHT weapon types were still supposed to maintain their battle phase strengths and weaknesses - missiles strong at long range, lasers strong at medium, and kinetics at melee - is that not correct? I thought the range modifiers were supposed to give you a bit more flexibility, for example if antimatter gets blockaded and you can't make lasers anymore, you can still make kinetics that work a little better at medium range (but probably still suck at long range, because hey kinetics.) I shouldn't be missing because I'm sophon either, that should just reduce the damage as far as I can tell. And my laser weapons still seem wildly inaccurate even at medium or short range compared to enemy weapons. I have no idea why.



There's a ton of stuff going on with the new combat system and there doesn't seem to be a good way to figure it out without like, ripping apart the game files and looking at every formula. Can anybody make me less ignorant about this, please?

as far as i know u runs best with kinetics at long range

That's what I thought. The main thing I was hoping for with an expansion for this game was better combat, and they screwed up the balance completely to where there's no choice at all of what to use or how to play it... glad I only paid $10 for it.

Catma wrote:
That's what I thought. The main thing I was hoping for with an expansion for this game was better combat, and they screwed up the balance completely to where there's no choice at all of what to use or how to play it... glad I only paid $10 for it.

It's still an excellent game. Also, if you play the Sheredyn race (or custom Sheredyn-affinity race), any combat choice is viable (since the enemy can't retreat).

I would also like to know more about the combat in Disharmony. I played a lot on normal ES. Bought the Expansion but then never really played it. Would like to get back into it.



When playing against AI in normal ES, it was an Endless circle of countering weapons. I would choose armor that counteracted their weapons and weapons that would get past their armor. Then they would adjust their ships accordingly, then I would adjust to their adjustment...and so forth. Simple and fairly straightforward.



But Disharmony has added some new features which are somewhat confusing. As Catma mentioned. Can someone give more details?



- What is the "Order-Targeting"?

- What is the "Fleet Formation"?

- Are "fighters" and "bombers" worth it?

- When do you use them?

- How much do you use per fleet?

- General tactics on how best to use them?

- When do you use Point defence?

The wikia to Endless Space is very well researched, and should tell you more than you ever needed to know about the combat:

Targeting & Fleet Formation Mechanics

Fighters & Bombers Mechanics



As for whether the strike craft are worth it, I usually add them to many ships, since they don't take up too much weight, and add a rather sure damage source. But don't take my word for any of that, since I'm only playing against low-difficulty AIs, and don't know how they would hold up against human players.

Of course, the use of point defense depends on how often you see enemy strike craft. If you're fighting against the AI, you afaik never do, because they haven't been updated to take strike craft into account.

Alien@System wrote:
The wikia to Endless Space is very well researched, and should tell you more than you ever needed to know about the combat:

I'm not so sure I agree with you on that.

http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Combat doesn't even mention range settings on weapon modules...

I write this because this post explains it well and I wanted the link up here.

Hmm, I'm not a pro, but spend a lot of time at ES, mostly as an warmonger-faction (--> lot of combat).

All I know is based on my own experience, I do not Claim it's all 100% true and I don't really know why, but yeah, maybe better then nothing?



@range Settings:

After all I think every weapon is usable at all ranges. But you have to take into account the various functions.

Missiles - Mass Damage, but very slow (damage is dealt at the end of the Phase)

Kinetic - low damage, but instant with every burst

Beam - Not really sure, use normally this on mid-range 'cause the most mod-range-Card have a boni to beam weapons, but I never observed some Special mechanics with them.



Against a fleet with only a few, but high HP ships you best use rockets. With the massive damage they deal you can achieve the destruction of the enemy capital ships. Chance to destroy them is very high, if you would use as example kinetics they will survive with low/mid HP, but will not going down. If your enemy has much more ships then you, or more cheaper ships, Missiles aren't very useful. YOu Need lot of tonnage for few Missiles that, of cours, kill the low-class enemies instantly, but it's an Overkill at too high cost.

Also, if your enemy has a much larger fleet then you you get maybe hard losses before the Missiles make their damage - you loose your Second-strike Option.



Kinetics are (atm) my favourit on Long range. The kinetic weapons deals not very much damage, but nearly instant. It's like an first strike in nuclear warfare: With the first few attacks you can destroy (all?) of his smaller ships before they can use their weapons efficient. With the right crads an with a good Admiral my fleets are nearly invincible with Focus on Long range kinetics.



Beams, like written before... I don't know. Use them all times, but just as secondary or tertiary weapons. I have no Special exp with them...



conclusion:

If you fight against strong capital ships, use massive Missiles. Don't equip bad armored ships with them 'cause you will loose them before they can attack.

Against weaker ships, Long range kinetics are the weapon of choice. Kill them before they can attack.



In any game I was very superior with an excessive Long-range Focus. Destroy the enemy with an massive first strike. Same strategy like in the early cold war, an decapitation strike.



@targeting:

With any kind of weapon I use the "Spread Fire" (this one will hit random all enemy Units) 'cause my Goal is to destroy many ships as possible in the early Phase of the battle (if you enemy loose 45% of his whole fleet this is harder then 100% of his capitol ships (15% of the fleet)).



@Formation:

Hm, Not sure here, never seen that the AI will use an other targeting tactic as spread fire. An if your enemy use spread fire the Formations are all the same. Normally I choose the one that send the ships with the most HP on the head of the Formation (to avoid the destruction of damaged ships).



@bomber and fighters

I use some figthers few times. But just for style (I like if there are some squad of small ships in the battel). I could never notice that these were efficient in anyway. Not Fighters, nor Bombers.







so after all I can confirm that Long range kinetics are the best. Hope my remarks are maybe usefull.



Greez

Vladec

I think formations tells YOUR fleet how to prioritize the enemy fleet when targeting them I.E. - when using nosebreaker (all ships target one enemy) you use formations to tell the fleet to prioritize ships with High MP.



Or at least that is what it seems to do.

e.g. : when I formation ships with high health *I* target their Dreadnoughts.... when formation low health I shoot their Frigates.f

LordVladec wrote:


@bomber and fighters

I use some figthers few times. But just for style (I like if there are some squad of small ships in the battel). I could never notice that these were efficient in anyway. Not Fighters, nor Bombers.

Vladec

I'm new to this game but I have had very advanced fighters or bombers do more damage than any ship weapon (in a mixed fleet with a designated carrier) or at least the game says that they (bombers) were my best weapon in the report.

yeah, basically, you start the game. and by turn 5, the enemy is already at your planet, checking you out. so you make peace with them and level up your systems and fleets etc. you get ready to attack the enemy and see that they have 25 fleets of 22/22. well, most of those ships are probably lower level since there has been no combat yet. you get to the planet and the 25 fleets has turned into 50+ fleets. you take over one of the systems and see that all of the resources are in the negative and oh... heres another 30 fleets coming out of nowhere. and this is on easy setting. the game sucks. just delete it. luckily i just downloaded the torrent. and im glad. if i had spent cash to buy this game, i'd probably make some kind of terroristic threat against the company and go to jail. devs couldnt figure out how to work the AI difficulty so they just said F- it. probably THE worst modern game ive played. i currently have 2 monthly subs for pc games. i doubt ill play another one made by this company. dont bother responding to me, i made an account just to ♥♥♥♥♥ about the game.

That is strange op, as when playing the Hissho with the primary means of offense was medium range beams (secondary was long range missiles), every enemy fleet would get ripped apart in the medium range phase, including those with quite a bit of shield defenses (which is why I never bothered to alter my fleet designs. Nothing could stop them. Even dreadnoughts were swatted like flies in medium range).



I do get that LR kinetics are the most cost-effective system, but out of principle I refuse to use weapons outside of what should be their optimum range. Also, I thought the AI stuck with weapons in their optimum range as well.



I've only played on game though, on hard, and I don't think the AI used LR kinetics (in fact, throughout I had not put that many deflectors on my ships, favoring shields and flak). MR beams worked very well for me.